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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/8/2007 4:03:01 PM

HydroMaster

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You people? Who are you people? Am I a you people? America doesn't terrorize the world....we just over react on a very large scale. Sometimes that happens when you realize someone wants you dead.

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/8/2007 5:21:50 PM

OffTheBeatenTrak

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: OffTheBeatenTrak

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

While I respect your sentiments, I don't think the world did change on 9/11. At the time I thought it had like I guess many in the world thought it had, but on reflection, while it certainly seems to have changed for Americans, I don't think it changed for anyone else. As far as I can see it is business as usual.

Being British i can say, things have certainly changed over here maybe not as suddenly as it did for America, but things have definately changed.

Being British myself but not living there, I can only assume if it has for Britain it is because Blair bought into all the neocon crap. Britain has always had terrorism of one sort or another as far as I can remember and I'm over 50. When I was growing up I remember Aden or some country wanting its independence, then Irish terrorism funded by Americans and now it is muslim terrorism funded by Saudis and Iranians. I'm trying to figure out what has changed other than Britain having a Prime Minister who bought into the paranoia crap where previous Prime Ministers would have nothing to do with it.

Changes in security and law to acomiedate the war on terror are one aspect.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/security/terrorism-and-the-law/

Although they may or may not of been plans to invade iraq before 9/11, it was still the catalyst for both the Afgan and iraq war, of which we were apart of. As for Blairs reasons only he is going to know that and i'm not going to second guess something i'm never going to know for sure.

I think also terrorism is seen as much more global problem than it used to be. This is reflected in the media coverage which is now alot more extensive.

< Message edited by OffTheBeatenTrak -- 2/8/2007 5:28:22 PM >

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/8/2007 8:06:15 PM

Marc2b

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meatcleaver said:

quote:

Read The Project For The New American Century. American neocons had every intention of invading Iraq before 9/11.

Yes, I’ve heard all about the Project for the New American Century. Some people formed a policy agenda then, when they came to power, they implemented it. Why does this surprise anybody?

quote:

Look at American foreign policy over the last 50 years and you will see why there are not only fanatics that hate America but whole populations that have similar sentiments even if they don't act upon it.

Ask yourself why America bank rolls and gives such uncritical support to Israel and allows Israel to copy and sell on American weapons it is given under licence. Surely you don't believe it is because the USA is altruistic towards Israel. If it really wanted to do the right thing by Israel it could bring peace to the middle east tomorrow and isolate Islamic fanatics. Israel is a client state, a military foothold in the middle east and America won't vacate it while it has interests in the middle east which will be as long as it needs Arab oil. Once Arab oil has gone America will leave and Israel will have to look after itself.

You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know but you are side-stepping my question. Let’s say that the West asked the Islamic world for a list of demands. The Islamic world hold a summit and drafts such a list. The West then fulfills the demands to the letter. Do you think that the terrorist attacks will stop?

Anyone who thinks "yes," is naive at best. I’m sorry, it’s not my intention to be nasty, but there is no other way to put it. Such people have a seriously flawed view of humanity. They are seeing the world as they wish to see it, not as it really is.

RealOne said:

quote:

Exactly what the fuck do you think we are?

Ringie dingie dingie time to wake up marc!

Sigh. There is no easy way to say this but, in the name of intellectual honesty, I feel I have no choice. I do not take you seriously you conspiracy believing nutcase you. You have no credibility with me. You finally lost me with the Illluminati. Still, I bear you no ill will and wish you well.

I suppose I should comment on the movie since that’s what this thread is about. I have seen the movie and was disappointed. It struck me as a very lack luster effort with production values that I would expect from a network "movie of the week." I won’t be renting it again. United 93, now that was a good movie but the best thing I have seen about 9-11 is the documentary, "Inside 9-11." The one shot mostly by the two French brothers who are film students and narrated by that crazy taxi driver guy (it’s late, I’m tired, and my mind is drawing a blank).

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/9/2007 2:18:40 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OffTheBeatenTrak

As for Blairs reasons only he is going to know that and i'm not going to second guess something i'm never going to know for sure.

I think also terrorism is seen as much more global problem than it used to be. This is reflected in the media coverage which is now alot more extensive.

So you aren't going to second guess Blair. Do you believe everything politicians tell you?

If you think terrorism is more global than it ever was, then you have bought into the paranoia. Surely a Brit knows that terrorism has always been global, we did after all have a global empire. The only reason why people are calling it global now is because the US has had an act of terrorism on its soil. Terrorism has always been global. First it was the Brits, French and Spanish terrorising the world and now it is the US. Just because someone bites back, doesn't suddenly bring a new level to terrorism.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 2/9/2007 2:20:06 AM >

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/9/2007 2:32:20 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

meatcleaver said:

quote:

Read The Project For The New American Century. American neocons had every intention of invading Iraq before 9/11.

Yes, I’ve heard all about the Project for the New American Century. Some people formed a policy agenda then, when they came to power, they implemented it. Why does this surprise anybody?

Good, that is clear. The Iraq invasion was the ambition of the Bush administration before 9/11.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know but you are side-stepping my question. Let’s say that the West asked the Islamic world for a list of demands. The Islamic world hold a summit and drafts such a list. The West then fulfills the demands to the letter. Do you think that the terrorist attacks will stop?

Anyone who thinks "yes," is naive at best. I’m sorry, it’s not my intention to be nasty, but there is no other way to put it. Such people have a seriously flawed view of humanity. They are seeing the world as they wish to see it, not as it really is.

Starting a war with a country that had nothing to do with terrorism won't stop terrorism for sure!

Starting illegal wars won't stop terrorism because that is an act of terrorism in itself!

Wars have never stopped terrorism, only exacerbated it. One has to win over the hearts and minds of populations from which the terrorists come. Collective punishment which is what the US and Israel indulge in only creates more terrorism because the population being punished rightlyfully perceives itself as defending itself by using violence against violence. In the case of the US, the US is the one that initially went half way round the world setting up military outposts and supporting oppressive governments. Britain realised this sometime ago but unfortunately Blair appears to be an history retard like Bush.

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/9/2007 4:46:45 AM

OffTheBeatenTrak

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

So you aren't going to second guess Blair. Do you believe everything politicians tell you?

No i don't believe every thing, IMO most of what politicians say (not all) is for means of self presevation, glorification or just plain greed. Is possible that this was all about (lets just oil) yes it possible, but by the same token it is also possible it that it wasn't. I just don't know, the only one's who know for sure are the one's in power and they are not going to tell me. My point is that any opninion i form weather right or wrong would have little to no basis, which would make such opinion kind of useless. And i'm not going to start throwing theories about unless i actually have a basis for them.

quote:

If you think terrorism is more global than it ever was, then you have bought into the paranoia. Surely a Brit knows that terrorism has always been global, we did after all have a global empire. The only reason why people are calling it global now is because the US has had an act of terrorism on its soil. Terrorism has always been global. First it was the Brits, French and Spanish terrorising the world and now it is the US. Just because someone bites back, doesn't suddenly bring a new level to terrorism.

While yes the act of terrorism has always been a global problem, most attacks pre 9/11 (ok may not all) were aimed at a specific country. E.i Eta at spain, IRA at england, and so on.. Were as now i get the impression the targets are alot more broader and things are now represented as more two sided war, the terrorist V the West. Plus i'm certain America has had acts of terrorism on it's soil before 9/11, if memory serves didn't someone blow up or tried to blow the underground car park of the trade centres?

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/9/2007 5:04:03 AM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HydroMaster

You people? Who are you people? Am I a you people? America doesn't terrorize the world....we just over react on a very large scale. Sometimes that happens when you realize someone wants you dead.

I don't think this wording was meant to be an insult. I did a double -take when I seen the phraze "you people"- cut the guy some slack- I don't think his context was malice- ...had it been a series of whipping boy posts- then maybe.... but lighten up.
[just my opinion]

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/9/2007 5:01:15 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

RealOne said:

quote:

Exactly what the fuck do you think we are?

Ringie dingie dingie time to wake up marc!

Sigh. There is no easy way to say this but, in the name of intellectual honesty, I feel I have no choice. I do not take you seriously you conspiracy believing nutcase you. You have no credibility with me. You finally lost me with the Illluminati. Still, I bear you no ill will and wish you well.

Well lets talk about that then.

since the illuminata broke your back, lets see what reuters has to say about it shall we? Of course i suppose reuters, the uk press, swedish press, cia, nsa would all be considered not credible sources. i listed these sites with the assumption that you at least did enough homework to knwo that the bilderbergs are the illuminati kingpins. If you did not get that far then this is a total waste of time. So what are you? naive, illinformed, in complete denial? i Obvioulsy with these kinds of sources backing me up you lack credibility with me as well.

Enjoy!

20:00 Sunday 27 May - Channel 4 UK

In the final programme in his series on 'conspiracy theorists', Jon Ronson investigates the mysterious Bilderberg Group.

Could this elite circle, said to include Peter Mandelson, Denis Healey and Henry Kissinger, really be ruling the world? In Washington DC Jon meets Big Jim Tucker, regarded by the anti-Bilderberg crowd as a heroic trailblazer.

Jim has discovered the location of the next Bilderberg Group meeting and Jon joins him in a quest for the truth, which leads to confrontations with unwelcoming security guards and a leisurely car chase. Will they get to the bottom of the Bilderberg enigma?

2. Reuters Article
Secretive Bilderberg group meeting in Sweden
from: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/010523/80/brbbh.html

By Peter Starck - Wednesday May 23, 05:00 PM -

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - EU enlargement and the bloc's military role,
NATO's future and developments in Russia and China will top the agenda when senior Western business leaders, politicians and a sprinkle of royalty meet in Sweden this week.

The Bilderberg group, a semi-secret discussion forum for the Western world's power elite, will hold its annual meeting in the town of Stenungsund on the Swedish west coast on May 24-28, Swedish newspapers reported on Wednesday.

A 900-metre long metal fence has been erected around Hotel
Stenungsbaden, the meeting venue, to keep intruders away, regional
daily Goteborgs-Posten said, publishing a picture of the fenced-in
hotel.

Anti-globalisation demonstrators are expected to protest outside and local police see the event as a useful training exercise ahead of the mid-June European Union summit in the city of Gothenburg 50 km (30 miles) to the south.

The Bilderberg group, named after the hotel where it first met in
1954, was formed early in the Cold War era in reaction to a growing Communist threat. Today, many critics see it as a conspiracy and an agent of a new capitalist world order.

Bilderberg member Jacob Wallenberg, chairman of the board of
commercial bank SEB and head of Sweden's influential Wallenberg family whose empire has a finger in most big Swedish industries, played down the group's importance.

"This is one of many meetings all over the world where decision-makers get together," he told the daily Dagens Nyheter, which earlier published the main agenda topics.

Invited as speakers, Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were groomed at
Bilderberg meetings before rising to fame as U.S. President and
British Prime Minister respectively.

EU Commission President Romano Prodi, NATO Secretary-General George Robertson and European Central Bank Governor Wim Duisenberg all have a past as Bilderbergers.

SHAPING CAPITALISM

"Even though no formal decisions are made...this group, together with many others, has contributed to shaping the kind of capitalism we have today and cemented the world's leading business elites together," Goran Greider, editor-in-chief of Dala-Demokraten, a regional Swedish
daily, said in a live studio debate on Sweden's TV4 television.

Bilderberg participants abide by the so-called Chatham House rule,
which forbids everyone present from disclosing what anybody else has said.

No possibility of conspiracy there!

"The secrecy is regarded as very provocative. Men in power talk
towards consensus behind closed doors on timely issues on the
political agenda," Ulf Bjereld, a political science professor at
Gothenburg University, said.

Bilderberg members include former U.S. Secretary of State Henry
Kissinger, U.S. Senators Christopher Dodd, John Kerry and Chuck Hagel, World Bank chief James Wolfensohn, France's central bank governor Jean-Claude Trichet and former IMF heads Michel Camdessus and Stanley Fischer.

Also listed are the chairmen of car makers Fiat, Giovanni Agnelli, and DaimlerChrysler, Juergen Schrempp, former British finance minister Kenneth Clarke, Dutch Queen Beatrix and Xerox Corp CEO Paul Allaire.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Power Elite Public Information Service -
http://www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm#pepis - to join/leave list
To bypass search engines why not put in a link to
http://www.bilderberg.org
- now funded for another 2 years
PLEASE FORWARD TO NEWSGROUPS AND ANYONE YOU FEEL WOULD BE INTERESTED IN
THIS INFORMATION
This is an occasional (max. 1 per month) email list as part of the
campaign
for press access to and public awareness of Bilderberg and similar elite

meetings. See www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm for more info.
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ &
http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/pepis/messages
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Bilderberg 2001 looks certain to be in Gothenburg, Sweden 22-28th May
2001
Where to stay, who's going to be there
http://www.bilderberg.org/2001.htm

Yeshua and The Bible - light for a darkening world
http://www.bilderberg.org

http://www.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-bold

Intelligence Sources Say Bilderberg Targeting American Patriots
http://www.btpholdings.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_btpholdings_archive.html

Congressman Ron Paul, a Republican, is afraid that the Bush administration is going to stage a false flag operation, so the United States can attack Iran, and he said so in the House of Representatives last Thursday.
http://suitcaseman.gnn.tv/

How about the pentagon?
In the Pentagon document, Field Manual FM 30-31B, the world can see the way the Pentagon thinks on such matters as using terrorism to gain control of the minds of the citizenry. The document details the methodology for launching terrorist attacks in nations that "do not react with sufficient effectiveness" against "communist subversion." The manual states that the most dangerous moment comes when leftist groups "renounce the use of force" and embrace the democratic process.
http://www.tribalmessenger.org/headlines/3-22-06-iran-gladio-terrorists.htm

How about more NSA:

Secret Warfare: Operation Gladio and NATO's Stay-Behind Armies
http://www.buergerwelle.de/pdf/secret_warfare_and_natos_stay_behind_armies.htm
http://users.westnet.gr/~cgian/gladio.htm

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, 40 Years Later
Flawed Intelligence and the Decision for War in Vietnam
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/index.htm

How about a little CIA fun?
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_CIA.htm
http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPerson.php?id=2747&name=Operation-Condor
http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPerson.php?id=113&name=CIA
http://www.answers.com/topic/operation-gladio

How the Call for "No Revenge" Is Made Sleight of Hand for "Defense of Our Way of Life"

London Underground Bombing "Exercises" Took Place at Same Time as Real Attack

Sword Play: Attacking Civilians to Justify "Greater Security"

http://www.rcpbml.org.uk

Documentation and government whistleblowers have attested to the existence of these events. How can we be sure that these activities ended with the last declassified document? Is it logical to allow agencies responsible for terrorism in the past to investigate modern day attacks behind closed doors? The Unspinning The Truth events will attempt to address these questions and will review some of the most troubling events in our recent history.

David Shayler and Annie Machon worked for MI5’s political and counter-terrorism departments in the early 1990’s. They both left the agency in disgust at the security services criminal activities and incompetence. Annie Machon is the author of “Spies, Lies & Whistleblowers” (The Book Guild Ltd., 2005) and is currently secretary of the 911 Truth Campaign (Britain & Ireland).
http://www.anthonybeckett.com/unspinningthetruth.html

How about nederland docs:
http://niburu.nl/index.php?showarticle.php?articleID=8502

and listening to people whoi talk like you is why conspirasies ALWAYS work!!!! Likewise for intellectual honesty.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/9/2007 5:08:08 PM >

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/9/2007 5:08:21 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

It did serve to remind me how important it is to get rid of those towelheaded extremist bastards that get off on doing horrible things like this though.

This is from the same enlightened soul who claimed that since black people use the "n" word (which is different the way it is used by blacks) Then he sees no problem using it, the "n" word, wherever and whenever he saw fit.
A true humanitarian.

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/9/2007 10:03:46 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
I do not take you seriously you conspiracy believing nutcase you. You have no credibility with me. You finally lost me with the Illluminati. Still, I bear you no ill will and wish you well.

I suppose I should comment on the movie since that’s what this thread is about. I have seen the movie and was disappointed. It struck me as a very lack luster effort with production values that I would expect from a network "movie of the week." I won’t be renting it again. United 93, now that was a good movie but the best thing I have seen about 9-11 is the documentary, "Inside 9-11." The one shot mostly by the two French brothers who are film students and narrated by that crazy taxi driver guy (it’s late, I’m tired, and my mind is drawing a blank).

How about a few people who lived through hitlers take over germany and are now giving their opinion of whats going on here?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6952102263921897950&q=bombs%2Bwtc

Do retired cops, people who been there done that have any credibility?

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/10/2007 12:39:55 AM

NorthernGent

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Hey Kevin, some of the "you people" agree with you but called it a day a long time ago.

The US government is attempting the impossible - trying to stem the tide of self-determination in the Middle East.

Bombing Iran would be an extremely foolish move on the part of the US government. Not bombing Iran would also be extremely foolish for the US government and their business allies. They can't win here. If Iran develops nukes (and I think they're game for it) then others in the area will follow suit (Egypt, Saudi). Consequently, the US goverment will have no power in the area and bang goes control over the oil supply propping up the US economy.

The question is which way will they go. I think they'll bomb Iran - I really do. They're already dressing it up as "Iran is heavily involved in killing US soldiers" (which they're not, the majority of those captured and killed are Saudis). We heard all of this with Iraq i.e. "Iraq was funding Al-Quaeda" etc. Reading these boards, I'm left with the impression that people are actually falling for these lines as per the Iraq situation which we know was lies and deliberate misrepresentation of information.

Over the next 6 months, the US government will constantly feed people the "Iran is a threat" lines in various forms, it will pave the way for support and they'll bomb the place.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 2/10/2007 12:40:54 AM >

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/12/2007 10:06:57 PM

Marc2b

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Realone said:

quote:

"since the illuminata broke your back... etc... etc... etc... and etc... and etc... and etc..."

I may as well admit it. You’re right. Not only have the Illuminati "broken" my back, I am in fact an agent of theirs – a position I have been groomed for since birth. My actual reason for being on the CM boards is to receive coded messages from my handler.

Okay. I’m being snide and sarcastic. Sometimes it hard not to be. I try to be respectful but it ain’t always easy when someone proclaims that the U.S. government, under the control of secret ancient societies, brought down the Twin Towers when all the evidence points to a bunch of pissed off, religious nutcase, Muslims. Likewise, serious scholars agree that the Illuminati were little more than a social club with delusions of grandeur that went defunct shortly after their founding centuries ago. When I look through some of your links (and I only really look for entertainment purposes) I can’t help but think, what brand of tinfoil makes the best hats?

I just felt I owed it to you to be honest about where I stand. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. Be well... and try not to be paranoid.

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RE: World Trade Center movie - 2/13/2007 1:23:53 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Realone said:

quote:

"since the illuminata broke your back... etc... etc... etc... and etc... and etc... and etc..."

I may as well admit it. You’re right. Not only have the Illuminati "broken" my back, I am in fact an agent of theirs – a position I have been groomed for since birth. My actual reason for being on the CM boards is to receive coded messages from my handler.

Okay. I’m being snide and sarcastic. Sometimes it hard not to be. I try to be respectful but it ain’t always easy when someone proclaims that the U.S. government, under the control of secret ancient societies, brought down the Twin Towers when all the evidence points to a bunch of pissed off, religious nutcase, Muslims. Likewise, serious scholars agree that the Illuminati were little more than a social club with delusions of grandeur that went defunct shortly after their founding centuries ago. When I look through some of your links (and I only really look for entertainment purposes) I can’t help but think, what brand of tinfoil makes the best hats?

I just felt I owed it to you to be honest about where I stand. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. Be well... and try not to be paranoid.

well for the illuminati i woudl say i spent 40+ of my 50 odd years in your camp, so i do understand where you are coming from. But i am rather surprized that anyone who has took a bit of time to serioulsy examine the evidence on wtc is capable of beolieving planes brought them down. Did you examine the evidence btw?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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