RE: Slavery and Obedience

RE: Slavery and Obedience (Full Version)

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strikingamatch -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 3:04:08 PM)
Slow down people! Let me put things in perspective. We were chatting with each other one evening and she told me she has a "dark secret". Naturally I asked what it was and she refused to tell. A few nights later, I said that I wanted her to tell and she said that it would make her miserably unhappy to talk about it and I said, ok, forget it. However, in subsequent conversations she kept coming back to the issue and dancing around it, asking me if she should say or not. (I suspect the reason she did so was because she was unhappy not telling me her secret after I had told her that I wanted to know it.) Eventually, I got tired of her games and insisted she say. After two hours of hemming and hawing the experience came out. I did not make an issue of it, nor did I discuss it. She cried a little and after about ten minutes she was happy again. My question was, at the point where I insisted that she say, should I expect her to obey immediately or not. I now understand, thanks to the responses here, that even though the m/s dynamic is fully agreed to by both sides, there are times when the slave will not be able to be slave and the master has to accept that differing reality. Conclusion: In every m/s relationship there are points where a master cannot elicit an ideal state of mind by asserting his authority over his slave, rather what is required is an understanding of the slave's specific needs at that point and working with them. Thank you once again to everybody for contributing their thoughts.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 3:30:35 PM)
Thanks for the details. So the reality is that she wanted to tell you, but isn't secure enough to say it and made it into a game. Frankly at the "I've got a secret" line, I would have just replied "OK." and then gone on like she had said "The weather is nice."

thetammyjo -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 3:43:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Thanks for the details. So the reality is that she wanted to tell you, but isn't secure enough to say it and made it into a game. Frankly at the "I've got a secret" line, I would have just replied "OK." and then gone on like she had said "The weather is nice." It's really common for someone as they are starting to get to the point where they can work on their pasts that they drop these hints. It is annoying -- I can say this from both sides of that coin. You really need to share it, need to start dealing but the mental dynamics that helped you survivor really seeing the "safety" signals yet. When you hear these hints it can trigger a desire to help -- it's it annoying when we want to help but we can't? I think you got it though in your previous post, strikingamatch. Yes, sometimes being the master means not being the first and foremost, the boss, or even much of anything. You'll learn to cope with that harsh reality in time. Good luck to you both.

Jeffshope -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 4:24:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domguy33 Yes, near-immediate obedience is a requirement in my household. They way you get it is by NOT asking for very difficult tasks to be done. Give her orders for things she can do and do well - she does them right away,eagerly, and everyone is happy. domguy33 Wow - good reply. I agree - when you ask her something that is difficult to her and her abilities - you need to be prepared to give her the time she needs to comply. Now, if YOU allow her to stall and engage you in discussion instead of just doing it - then YOU are to blame. In any regard - if she does it - you should reward her.

Obsidiansnamaste -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 5:56:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strikingamatch How do you react when your slave hesitates to do as she is told? I am talking of a case when she is told to do something that is very difficult for her, however, it is something which does not cross any of her hard limits. If she eventually does as she is told, after repeated requests and after a few hours of cajoling ordering and discussion, does she get credit, or is she to be punished for taking her merry time? Is immediate obedience a realistic and fair objective? i am permitted to ask questions to clarify the objective so that i can obey. Beyond that i am to obey immediately...any discussion etc; is to take place AFTER i have obeyed...not prior to. i have found this way to be conducive to deepening trust in my Master. To discuss prior to obedience lends itself to the idea that a Master must explain Himself and (heaven forbid) justify what He is directing prior to the slave obeying.

BabyNyla -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 6:27:46 PM)
For me, patience is a virtue, especially when my Dom has it with me. It make take awhile ... and it may take some poking and proding ... but if he works with me ... it makes it easier for me to do other things in the future knowing I have his support and he's not embarrassed or uncomfortable with things, as I sometimes feel.

AquaticSub -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 6:50:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strikingamatch Slow down people! Let me put things in perspective. We were chatting with each other one evening and she told me she has a "dark secret". Naturally I asked what it was and she refused to tell. A few nights later, I said that I wanted her to tell and she said that it would make her miserably unhappy to talk about it and I said, ok, forget it. However, in subsequent conversations she kept coming back to the issue and dancing around it, asking me if she should say or not. (I suspect the reason she did so was because she was unhappy not telling me her secret after I had told her that I wanted to know it.) Eventually, I got tired of her games and insisted she say. After two hours of hemming and hawing the experience came out. I did not make an issue of it, nor did I discuss it. She cried a little and after about ten minutes she was happy again. Honestly, in this situation I think my dominant would tell me that it's clear I want to talk about something and when I'm ready he'd be happy to listen. Ordering her to tell you doesn't seem like a good idea to me and punishing her for not being quick enough seems even worse.

slavemaia -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 7:01:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raphael Unhesitating obedience isn't something that just happens. It takes time and work to achieve. Shaking her head in agreement. Absolutely. The illusion is automatic obedience under all circumstances. The reality is, at least for me, i obey to the degree that i trust. Now that's not to say i refused orders or anything like that, but there has been lots of discussion about things and lots of learning about each other between Master and i. For me immediate obedience is a response to my love and devotion to Chairman - especially when it's really difficult. Initially i could not give Him the kind of devotion i give Him now, i just didn't have it. i could pretend and play the part, but that was all it was.

MaryT -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 7:05:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strikingamatch How do you react when your slave hesitates to do as she is told? I am talking of a case when she is told to do something that is very difficult for her, however, it is something which does not cross any of her hard limits. If she eventually does as she is told, after repeated requests and after a few hours of cajoling ordering and discussion, does she get credit ... She gets a gold metal for endurance. Why would you want to spend hours cajoling and ordering? It sounds pretty miserable for both parties. Surely there are more pleasant and productive uses of your time, and hers.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 7:13:04 PM)
I dont know, sounds more to me like she wanted to see how long you'd let her keep her secret, and how much it would eat at you not knowing. She dangled the carrot infront of you. Immediate obedience depends on the situation. I expect it from Angel, but he has been mine for long enough that he knows what I expect. Something like this is a game. She wouldnt have brought it up fif she didnt want you to demand she tell you. I am with LA, someone baits me like that and no matter how tempting the bait is, I leave it alone. If you are going to try and pull me into a game, you are not going to have me humor you. I dont see a reason to reward her for telling you something she brough up in the first place. But thats just me. DV

angelic -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/8/2007 7:13:58 PM)
Just curious..... how long have you considered yourself a Master?

greeneyes1962 -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 12:24:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strikingamatch I thank everyone for their responses. I wish to clarify what it is that puzzles me. I am in the beginning of an m/s relationship with a young lady. It is clearly understood by both sides that she is slave and I am master. We are both happy in our roles. I told my slave to do something, in this case, to talk about a traumatic experience she had. It took her at least two hours to finally talk about it. My question is, during the time that she was hemming and hawing, was she aware of the m/s dynamic, or was she choosing to ignore it? In other words, when she is resisting orders, is she still aware that she is slave? Further, will the fact that I let her hem and haw, encourage her to be lackadaisical at other times too? well, that's a completely different scenario. i am an incest survivor, and i've never spoken a word about it to anyone, for 26 years. mostly i did not remember it, it was very much repressed. my Dominant asked me last week about it, and it brought forth a lot of memories, because i'm finally ready to face the truth. but if he'd tried to force me to talk about it, i wouldn't have been able to, no matter what. so i can't see this as an episode of disobedience, people will face trauma when they're ready to, and not before.

closertonova -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 12:43:32 AM)
i must say i do love the little goings on back an forth with my Dom, its that same reason i don't lay back like a limp fish durring bondage, if i am to be tied up it will be to the point at which i cannot escape of my own free will because i pulled, twisted and squirmed to see, not saying i don't obey automatically when He uses His tone, but that interplay is fun, so honestly had it (strickingamatch's tale) played out in our home it would have been a game, the line i have a dark secret, if said sadly might be a show that shes embaressed and ashamed figures you ought to know but fears what telling you will do to the relationship but honestly if she brought it up more then once in the house i live in that would be a game and i would expect my Master to draw it out of me, or ignor me, Or use His Tone, she may have come from a relationship where there was more play, i always know whos in charge i just love the reminders.....hehe so its not intended as disrespect

RavenMuse -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 1:11:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Obsidiansnamaste i am permitted to ask questions to clarify the objective so that i can obey. Beyond that i am to obey immediately...any discussion etc; is to take place AFTER i have obeyed...not prior to. i have found this way to be conducive to deepening trust in my Master. To discuss prior to obedience lends itself to the idea that a Master must explain Himself and (heaven forbid) justify what He is directing prior to the slave obeying. My girl is permitted to ask beforehand.... but she knows that when the discussion takes place is My decision. I then know there is an aspect she has need to discuss and can decide wether I think understanding better will assist her to serve better. I have no need to explain Myself, nor has she any right to an explination, but most times I will give her an explination because doing so helps her build trust in My decision making process. Seeing and understanding ALL the factors I weigh up often in a small decision can oft be quite a surprize to her.... though she knows some decisions are purely and simply "Because it will please Me"

cariad -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 1:31:31 AM)
as a slave first and foremost: i am allowed to ask questions for clarification purposes when told to do something. if i don't understand why i am supposed to do task a and how it is to be done i can not do it to the best of my ability. example: Dom A says "cariad, I want you to write an essay on the worst bdsm experience you have had, but i want it done in both first person and third person speech," i am sure He will expect me to ask Him to clarify if He wants third person to be done first or if He wants it to be done last. Another Example is: Dom A says, "cariad, I want you to stand in the corner for 30 minutes every two hours and make sure that you have done six hours in total," i am sure He will expect me to ask why i am to do this and if He wishes to discuss this after i am done my six hours. slaves and subs alike should be allowed to ask questions for clarification and to make sure that they do their best to please their Master or Mistress. i know that if as a Dominant i gave a sub or slave a task or assignment to do and they did not understand how or why, i would expect them to ask questions to clarify what i want them to do.... NO, I do NOT switch, this was just an example. i obey to the letter what i am told to do, and if i do not understand something i ask for clarification so taht i can be the best slave for the One i am with. Edited to add: i am allowed to ask to discuss the task/assignment or punishment before or after, and i always respect what the One i am with says. If He says after it is done we will talk about it then i accept it and move on. Example: if i am being punished for something and i want to discuss it, i ask to talk about it after unless there is a reason to talk about it before hand. cariad.

sleazybutterfly -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 3:33:50 AM)
Reading what it was about, I would say not to punish her in this instance. Events in our lives that are traumatic can be very hard to talk to anyone about, so I can understand why she would have such a hard time. I personally had men want to hear about the sexual abuse when I was younger to wank to (I didn't share), so even with someone that is her Master, I can understand why she would hesitate. My Daddy and I were talking the other night about what was bothering me (the anniv. of the rape), he wanted me to say the word outloud and acted like he didn't know what I was referring to. I normally jump when he says jump, but this time I couldn't quite say the word for awhile. I did eventually, then I learned he already knew, but knew I needed to say it, to make it real..to let it go (if that makes sense). Whether the event was years ago, or yesterday, it can still hold all sorts of anger, sadness, etc.. with it, so patience on your part is very important. I hope you continue to be patient, and don't push someone to talk about something until they are able, I can't imagine that would do her any good. If she needs to talk about it, a therapist might be more equipped to handle the situation.

Celeste43 -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 7:32:47 AM)
If I had a choice between receiving punishment for not doing something I was afraid of or for doing something I was afraid of, I would prefer to be punished for not doing it. The punishment is the same, but I wouldn't have to go through the unpleasant experience. Next time make it easier for her. Warm up. You use that for impact play, use it for emotionally difficult items also. Break it down into steps and let her slowly work up to it. Just like an anal virgin, you don't go first time with the biggest dildo you can find and no lube. You start with lots of lube and just one finger and you take several days to work them up. Sorry her problem here comes because you didn't present it right.

Focus50 -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 12:48:58 PM)
In a general sense, if the girl does not hesitate to obey, then the task itself was not difficult. All things are situation specific but if there's one thing I loathe, it's the sound of my own voice repeating itself. If I feel her hesitation is about testing my boundaries, limits and general authority, I'll come down hard on her. However, if the given task is genuinely difficult for her, there's a high likelihood that's the very reason I've asked it of her. And since I have no desire to own a mindless robot who always obeys without question, I'll expect some hesitation, maybe even some rebellion. But the one thing I most likely will NOT do in this instance is come down hard on her.... I try not to forget my slave is a living, breathing human-being with emotions, feelings and a general need and willingness to obey me.... To answer the question from the OP, IMO immediate obedience IN ALL THINGS is neither realistic or fair - or even desirable assuming the slave is human and that I still enjoy the opportunity to discipline her. As for you second clarification post, I'll simply say that watering a plant is part of nurturing it but too much will drown it and it'll be just as dead as not watering it at all.... Knowing the difference is a matter of your own judgement and experience. Sounds to me like you think it'd be disbedience if she didn't get up and walk on your command after falling and breaking both her legs.... I bet myself that you were another teen "master" and then looked at your profile - seems a tad scarey that I wasn't even close! You don't need the lifestyle to gain the maturity and wisdom so essential for being one's Master - most bring it with them.... Focus.

lilbrattie -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 5:01:39 PM)
hi all, Am new to the site but saw this discussion and if it's okay i just wanted say that i agree with some of what others have said. Sometimes it takes a slave like me time to process an instruction. i know personally i'm thinking of what i've been asked, figuring out the most pleasing and correct way to go about the task, and taking everything in to be sure i fully understand the direction given.. sometimes this results in a pause before answering that i understand the direction, or sometimes it's a pause before i actually react and follow the instruction. Some tasks i've done a million times before are done instantly, but there are many things one can be asked to do that sometimes take a moment to sink in and figure out. IMO that is, ~ brattie ~

Celeste43 -> RE: Slavery and Obedience (2/9/2007 5:46:29 PM)
Focus, by assuming he has the maturity and life experiences you did at 32 you are making a huge mistake. He went from school to the army for three years, then probably spent six months to a year traveling and only then started university if he's anything like my cousins. So effectively he's closer to life experiences of you at 25. Plus he still goes back to the army for about a month every year. And the army life is not training to make decisions, it's about following them.

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