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This just hit me. - 3/9/2005 9:15:46 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Ok one idea just hit me. When discuising sexual vs service subs and slaves. Ask the person what story they liked most. The story of O or Cinderella.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: This just hit me. - 3/9/2005 1:01:08 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		neither, no fantasy for me.

(in reply to nella)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/9/2005 2:51:33 PM   
hisanguissette


Posts: 2
Joined: 3/4/2005
Status: offline 		story of o! story of o! story of o!! the book though. she was beautiful in the movie but we never got to see leather meet flesh. oh, and not the end of the book. i don't think i'm that submissive.

(in reply to nella)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/9/2005 3:01:46 PM   
fencerpet19


Posts: 169
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisanguissette

story of o! story of o! story of o!!... and not the end of the book. i don't think i'm that submissive.


My thoughts exactly! Story of O all the way.... *grin* though right now I have a strip of condoms hanging from my tack board with a note that says "One day my prince will cum, and when he does I'll be ready" so maybe I'm a romantic at heart.... who knows lol

_____________________________

"When I'm good I'm very, very good. But when I'm bad I'm better." - Mae West

(in reply to hisanguissette)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/9/2005 10:04:45 PM   
ravenna


Posts: 121
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		STORY OF O forever!!!

And yes the book, of course, and also the sequel, Return to the Chateau, but never the movie, all the film versions suck IMHO, and i know Story of O is something of a fairy tale too, but it's my favorite fairy tale of all time. Of course, i'm a sex slave; i don't recall O doing any nonsexual manual labor, other than perhaps putting film in her camera...

But isn't Cinderella the perfect fairy tale for service subs? After all, isn't Cinderella just a nonsexual service slave to her wicked stepmother and her evil stepsisters, slaving away thanklessly in their grim, grimy kitchen, with not a chance in hell of getting to go to the ball and meet Prince Charming? And who needs the Prince anyway, she's got all those lovely pots to scrub... Curse you, Fairy Godmother, for ruining a service slave's perfect life with that beautiful gown and the coach and coachmen and those sexy glass slippers! And that icky Prince Charming, you know all he's gonna want from poor Cinderella is sex, sex, sex, and worse, he's a shoe fetishist! And all she really wants is to go back and scrub her pots and pans like the good little service slave she is... A tragic tale.

[Disclaimer: This Fractured Fairy Tale has been offered for your amusement only. No offense is intended to Cinderellas or Fairy Godmothers or wicked stepmothers anywhere.]

And now i have to go and do the dishes. (Okay, not really.)

(in reply to fencerpet19)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/10/2005 2:11:37 AM   
fencerpet19


Posts: 169
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenna
... And that icky Prince Charming, you know all he's gonna want from poor Cinderella is sex, sex, sex, and worse, he's a shoe fetishist! And all she really wants is to go back and scrub her pots and pans like the good little service slave she is... A tragic tale.

[Disclaimer: This Fractured Fairy Tale has been offered for your amusement only. No offense is intended to Cinderellas or Fairy Godmothers or wicked stepmothers anywhere.]



OMG I am busting a gut laughing so hard!
~FP

_____________________________

"When I'm good I'm very, very good. But when I'm bad I'm better." - Mae West

(in reply to ravenna)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/21/2005 10:49:56 AM   
bicuriouscouple


Posts: 4
Status: offline 		i havent read either yet, but i am currently reading the sleeping beauty trilogy. it is definatly good...

(in reply to fencerpet19)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/21/2005 11:31:35 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		Frankly, I hated the story of O. I think it was an examply of a very unhealthy relationship, and it totally turned me off.

Take some of the scenes of hte Chateau out of context, and their hot, but placed in the rest of the novel...it's more than a little icky to me.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to bicuriouscouple)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/21/2005 11:51:02 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

But isn't Cinderella the perfect fairy tale for service subs?


NOT!!!!!
assuming Cinderella consensually agreed to serve the stepmother and sisters, she would also have to be somewhat of a humiliation fetishist, wouldn't you say? perhaps a S.A.M to have taken the advice of such "virtual" creatures such as fairies and directly disobey her Domme(s)....and really, they must be some sort of lame Domme(s) to lose control of a service sub/slave to someone who will only expect her to service him enough to have a rightful heir to the throne!

blame it on Prince if you want, most likely his only interest in sex with her was to provide heirs and got his jollies elsewhere and her only interest in him was having sumptuous attire, fancy transportation and servants that didn't return to their humbler origins at the stroke of midnight......after all, didn't you catch the end of the story?

....and they all lived happily ever after. The End

(in reply to ravenna)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/21/2005 2:22:51 PM   
SubbieHubbie


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm... but what about us male subbies? Unless we're feminized I'm not sure EITHER of those tales work for us, no?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/21/2005 2:34:29 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		Well SubbieHubbie.... feel free to make a suggestion that works for you? How about the Prince and the Pauper - it would give you the chance to be the 'whipping boy'.

(in reply to SubbieHubbie)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/21/2005 4:13:47 PM   
SubbieHubbie


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Believe it or not, there was no sarcasm in my question but rather a frustrated wistfulness. I feel totally deprived of positive imagery of the various forms of "Femdom+malesub" in our pop-culture. Of course, this isn't a surprise given how ridiculously patriarchal our societies are (end of sociological whine). If anyone can point me in the direction OF such works - things that are NOT along the lines of the few extreme mags I saw when younger (I have NO interest in having a woman stamp a broken glass into my genitals thank you very much), I'd appreciate it.

< Message edited by SubbieHubbie -- 3/21/2005 4:14:57 PM >

(in reply to onceburned)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/21/2005 8:10:36 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieHubbie
there was no sarcasm in my question but rather a frustrated wistfulness. I feel totally deprived of positive imagery of the various forms of "Femdom+malesub" in our pop-culture.


Yes, (please excuse the pun) I feel your pain. Maledom/femsub is portrayed as being part of the natural order and noble but Femdom/malesub is portrayed as unnatural and laughable. M/f relationships can be portrayed on TV (without the sex or the flogger) or in movies ... but not F/m unless it is for laughs or to portray pathological characters.

Oops... I am bordering on a rant. I can't come up with a list to support by points - but I stand by them anyways.


< Message edited by onceburned -- 3/22/2005 9:18:59 PM >

(in reply to SubbieHubbie)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/22/2005 8:48:55 PM   
MasterRuthven


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		I'm new here so I figure I'll throw in my two sense.
What did everyone think of the Secretary?
(BTW: the Beauty Trilogy is wonderful.)

(in reply to onceburned)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: This just hit me. - 3/22/2005 11:39:45 PM   
ravenna


Posts: 121
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I loved The Secretary, i thought it was very sexy and well-made, Maggie Gyllenhall is a doll, and i also liked that the movie kind of snuck into the mainstream without getting excessively stigmatized as a BDSM flick. And it was a great SM-lite date movie. i saw it twice in big multiplexes, and both times i spotted couples that i suspected just might be heading home to try out that scary spreader bar thingy for the very first time...

(in reply to MasterRuthven)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: This just hit me. - 3/23/2005 12:49:02 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I'm new here so I figure I'll throw in my two sense.
What did everyone think of the Secretary?


The Secretary was another tale of abuse. It would be nice to see the lifestyle portrayed in a good light just once before I die.
That is an instance of someone who could not live without him. She would literally die.

(in reply to MasterRuthven)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: This just hit me. - 3/24/2005 2:37:20 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		... there hasn't been the perfect story for me, yet... I haven't seen 'The Secretary' but have lost count of the number of times friends have said that i 'really Must' see it... Reading the comments here I'm not at all sure of that!

But I just wanted to say that for some kinds of men who love service, there is of course 'Venus in Furs'...

~ Elektra

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: This just hit me. - 3/24/2005 10:33:31 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

there hasn't been the perfect story for me, yet... I haven't seen 'The Secretary' but have lost count of the number of times friends have said that i 'really Must' see it... Reading the comments here I'm not at all sure of that!


Here I'll summarize for you.
She is into cutting, her self esteem is in the toilet. Finds a man who realizes just where she is and decides to exploit her. Her "boss" He tells her to stop the bad behavior and beats here when she doesn't. She does indeed stop the behavior.
He then leaves her sitting with her hands on a table literally for days. She is not allowed to get up. IF this were reality. Would you get up? When you felt your legs going to sleep and all the blood rushing out? Would you get up if you needed to defecate? After all if you do not urinate when you need to, problems arise within our systems. Sometimes permanent problems.
Although for the sake of the movie she does not move. When he finally does come back by some miracle of fate she is still alive after not eaten or drank any water for days. Peeing and defecating on herself. A mere 12 hour's in an airplane can do damage. Yet, the miracles happen again. THere is no circulation damage either.

Because of all of this, he chooses to marry her. She is an obedient, yet not healed in any way servant whom he can abuse at will and he knows she will never stand up for herself. No matter how bad the abuse.

Yes, I am opinionated however I put everything into a realistic tone. If it will not fit in reality without doing some damage to other's. Then it is abuse. We all have different likes and dislikes but when you break your toys there is no going back.
The story of O was not realistic..neither was cinderella or the secretary. Not in the real world anyway. As much as some would like it to be.
There should be a disclaimer on all of this crap.

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
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RE: This just hit me. - 3/24/2005 12:11:43 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
He then leaves her sitting with her hands on a table literally for days. She is not allowed to get up.

She is allowed to get up. She is simply ordered not to. She makes a choice- obey or not.

quote:

IF this were reality. Would you get up? When you felt your legs going to sleep and all the blood rushing out? Would you get up if you needed to defecate? After all if you do not urinate when you need to, problems arise within our systems. Sometimes permanent problems.
Although for the sake of the movie she does not move. When he finally does come back by some miracle of fate she is still alive after not eaten or drank any water for days. Peeing and defecating on herself. A mere 12 hour's in an airplane can do damage. Yet, the miracles happen again. THere is no circulation damage either.

It IS a movie. I think it presented some interesting ideas, but no one is touting this as a rubric for what bdsm IS or what reality IS.

quote:


Because of all of this, he chooses to marry her. She is an obedient, yet not healed in any way servant whom he can abuse at will and he knows she will never stand up for herself. No matter how bad the abuse.

You're calling it abusive...you'd probably call a lot of what the Owner chooses to do with me abusive as well.

Choosing to obey is not the same as not standing up for yourself. Sometimes obeying is the best and hardest way to stand up for what you believe in.
quote:


Yes, I am opinionated however I put everything into a realistic tone. If it will not fit in reality without doing some damage to other's. Then it is abuse. We all have different likes and dislikes but when you break your toys there is no going back.
The story of O was not realistic..neither was cinderella or the secretary. Not in the real world anyway. As much as some would like it to be.
There should be a disclaimer on all of this crap.



There is, it's called "fiction."

Suggesting some elements of the film are less than realistic is far from saying the entire thing is pointless and abusive.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: This just hit me. - 3/24/2005 12:54:22 PM   
Guest
quote:

There is, it's called "fiction."

Suggesting some elements of the film are less than realistic is far from saying the entire thing is pointless and abusive.


I agree, I thought it was a very enjoyable flick. Oddly enough, most of the complaints from fellow kinksters I heard is that there isn't enough kink involved... but it's not an X rated movie.

I also think Spader's character shows far more confusion and portrays equally as many issues as the secretary's character does from the beginning of the movie (the control exhibited by his ex, his unwillingness to commit or be intimate, his out of control temper, etc, etc). In fact, midway through the movie the secretary shows far more strength, and exhibits more personal growth than the Boss, at least in my minds eye. Then again, I don't look to it (or Story of O, ________<fill in blank> as a litmus test for wiitwd, rather as fictional works of entertainment.

The Secretary had some incredible moments that only one in the life would get. Her trying to spank herself with the brush, her trying to get her vanilla boyfriend to spank her were brilliant. Also some great symbolism was to be found. One of the most notable was when she 'evolved' from masterbating on her stomach, to on her back as she accepted that part of who she was.

My favorite part was when she greeted the client who came into the office. The look on her face was simply magnificent.


Mod5


(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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