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RE: Owner vs Master - 2/10/2007 4:04:26 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		i was owned before and after He chained and collared me. i don't address Daddy as my "owner" however i use Master as loving gesture to show how much i appreciate Him for choosing me.



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RE: Owner vs Master - 2/10/2007 4:05:57 PM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Archer hit the mark best. Master is used both as a term of respect from their slave and as a connotation of skill level. My slave calls me Master, but in the community I am Sir Dominic, not Master Dominic. I haven't the knowledge to consider myself a Master in the art of fetish. But my slave loves to call me Master more than anything else. For her, I am HER Master.

For a slave, her Master is her Owner in more cases than not. Again, mostly, though not always. Another term to use would be Dominant. The responsibilities are the same no matter what you call him. Here are some examples:

That he be in control of himself first and foremost.
That he honors the terms of the arrangement you and he developed, no matter how basic or out there those terms might be.
That he never pushes you beyond where you can go, and has the experience and knowledge to know where that point is.
That he is never reluctant to say "I apologize" if he does make a mistake.
That his actions match his words.

I'm sure there are plenty more, but hopefully you get the idea. Best advice I can give, don't be in a hurry to get into a relationship. Take your time to get to know someone who interests you. Meet them IN PERSON at a public place and just talk. Don't disregard your instincts. It is rare to find the right one quickly. It took a year and a half for me to find my slave. Best of luck!

Namaste, Sir Dominic


(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/10/2007 4:08:40 PM   
chainedfarida


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		i too referred to my Master as both Master and Owner, i am also gorean so i know that i am property to do with as He wanted. But there is an obligation on the Master/Owners part i feel to know the needs of his property. therefore when this question was posed to me it was about whether or not he was Mastering me, or simply the Owner of property.

i am new and will admit i am also very inexperienced, and i beleived that an Owner/Master would care for his property and train or guide them to be the best for their pleasures. does an Owner therefore not have an obligation to at minimal care for his property, at max train and guide her or am i lost in this whole idea of Master/salve relationship. how am i to be the slave One wants if there is no guidance, no committment, no attention. And does a Master, learn to master his property. i too like what Fusion had wrote, and He has an insight as he is aware of all that transpied between my Master and myself.

i apreciate all the comments and replies,

far

(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/10/2007 4:27:34 PM   
goodpet


Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline 		For us it is "Captain”. i can use it in public, on the boat, and in the scene. It denotes the hierarchy and control and obedience i, as first mate, give to Him.  It just seems to work for us.

i call Him, Griffin,  my Owner or Captain when referring to Him to others depending on who it is i am talking with and their knowledge and relationship,  and i also call Him Master when i am with other slaves who understand our level, but i seldom call Him “Master” in the general scene to others.

We don’t really have a one set term that i have to use in all settings. As long as it is appropriate and respectful.

But I cannot call Him ‘late for dinner’.  (ok, ok,. bad pun, i should be PUNished for that)

(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/10/2007 5:05:58 PM   
chainedfarida


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		lol, maybe a pun-itentiary

far

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/10/2007 5:10:04 PM   
goodpet


Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline 		lol

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/10/2007 5:51:15 PM   
Shadow4Dom


Posts: 4
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		A sub/Slave can and will know the difference between the Master and the Owner. As set forth by their own rules and agreements. An owner cannot rule without the Master tendencies toward the sub/slave wanting to be Owned or Masterd

(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/10/2007 11:38:15 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear chainedfarida, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In my mind's eyes I see, that there are many styles of which creates the Dominant-submissive dynamic yet, vary from style to style as well as from individuals themselves.
 
It has been my experience, that those who use "Owner" does not always automaticly qualify themselves as a Master.  Although an owner may have control over or perhaps tangible control and or hands on control; the mastery may not be present and may be present, depending on the views of both individuals understanding of what Master implies.
 
In my earlier years in the scene, the Owner was more of a tangible entity whereas, the Master was in control of what wasn't always tangible as well as the physical manifestation.  Such as mastering the slave/submissive's mental, emotional and spiritual state/realms in addition to the physical realm/state.  So, as an Owner may not be seemingly obligated to feed the growth and or maintain a slave's 'submissive heart/slave heart,' the Master is always striving to leave the slave/submissive in a better state/realm then when they last exchanged their energy/power/authority/experience; as to influence a slave/submissive as to grow into the best that they may become as an individual, even to bloom beyond the boundaries of a slave and perhaps shed the slave heart and seed the furtile grounds to become a Master themselves.
 
An Owner can be separate from Master and vice versa, as well as joined together, in my mind's eyes.  The title of Owner does require a status of ownership, in the terms of what M/s and or D/s imply for modern times and to describe the dynamic for consensual M/s and or D/s. Only the Owner and the owned slave/submissive authenticates the dynamic and it is hoped that the community honors that status of commitment and ownership.  The Master, is hopefully been Owner at one time over an individual in a M/s and or D/s relationship but, is not an exclusive basis for the title of "Master."  In most cases in times past, the council of the individual's peers deemed an individual worthy to be identifying as a Master.  Otherwise, SIR was often used.
Master was also a term of endearment, given by a slave as to identify the level of the relationship.
 
Now, the use of the terms Owner and or Master seem diluted as it has taken on a wide range of meanings of what consititutes what Owner and or Master mean.  This is why there will be a wide variety of what it means, as there are individuals using the terms.
 
Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/11/2007 8:05:55 AM   
chainedfarida


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		thank you Lady Hugs, i appreciate your thoughts

sincerely far

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/11/2007 8:07:31 AM   
chainedfarida


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fusion

"Master as in masterfulness implies a strong forceful personality and the ability to deal authoritatvely with people and affairs.  Also showing the power and skill of a master.  "Owner" means having legal titile to an object and the right to use it as one wishes.  I would rather master you then to own you.  I would not own you till I mastered you anyway.  David


thanks David, it makes sense

far

(in reply to fusion)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/11/2007 9:54:48 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedfarida

i have been asked the question of whether my Master had been my Master or simply an Owner.

i accepted his collar under the impression he was a Master, to me a Master and Owner were the same thing, One that would care for, guide and train, and nurture the slave to be the best she can be for his pleasures. what had happened is that my only purpose was to be the middleman, to be the one that contacted other sub/slaves to get them to talk to him. when i begged for that to stop my purpose ended and he no longer paid any attention to me. in our discussion yesterday when i begged release, i finally asked the questions that needed to be answered. The answer was, i did not fit into his life at all, he had no intentions of me being part of his real life, he was not interesed in me relocating to be with him or in serving him other than sending messages to other subs/slaves.

i am curious to learn then how are a Master's responsibility to a slave differ than an Owners responsibilities?



"Ownership" of the human animal in the West, much like the notion of slavery itself, is a slippery idea. It is possible for a girl to reach such a state of selflessness and be owned by emotional reality alone, but few can internalize this enough to make the absence of legal and social support moot.

Regarding the differences between ownership and mastery as they relate to a slave, one might say there are little. To me, ownership denotes possession, and mastery, control. In this light, they are closely related, but not synonymous. "Ownership" is the ending result of a Master's ability to master and the slave's complete self-objectification; it is a state of capture, allowing someone to treat another as literal property. Since there are no legal supports for human chattel, it is crucial both qualities exist for a state of ownership to be authentic. As for the differences in "responsibility" between an owner and Master, I see little. That is, if we are speaking in a consensual slavery context.

Having said that, the scenario you describe above didn't seem to entail "ownership," nor did it necessarily entail mastery. The failure for this can be the responsibility of either party.

(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/12/2007 12:42:00 AM   
MomentsofHistory


Posts: 64
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		I believe that to Master anyone, leads to ownership...

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/12/2007 3:20:02 AM   
Areflectionofyou


Posts: 258
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		There are lessons in life we all learn. One  would be not accepting a collar from someone whom you don't know very well , and better yet trust your life with.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/12/2007 4:48:51 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with most of the replies and mainly agree with the notion that there is no established difference. The terms mean different things to everyone. People choose which identity fits their identity and style the best.

Personally, I use neither term in my dynamics.

Being refered to as "Master" makes me feal like I am wearing pants that are too big for my britches since I have a lot of respect for the people who have been awarded this title after years of work in their community of peers.

The term of "Owner" doesnt sit right with me because I dont view submissives/slaves as my property or an object. There is very little objectification. I view my relationships as two equal human beings in a contemporary relationship. One person has made a choice to have power (or authority) and the other has made a choice to submit to that authority. I view the concept of ownership to be more often than not, a romanticized ideal, and not the actual reality that makes a D/S or M/S relationship work. Some people like to claim its an actual reality for them, but...everytime people try and argue this point, I just see it being an actual reality on the same lines as the way a schizofranic's reality is an actual reality. Of course, this is just my opinion and what works for me in my views on M/S and D/S. Your more than welcome to disagree.

As of right now as far as honorifics, I would instruct a partner to call me "Sir" and to refer to me as "my Dominant". Rather than say they are owned by me, they would simply say "They are collared by me" or "In service to me" or "In consideration", depending on where the relationship is at. I would refer to them as my slave or my submissive based on how far the relationship has developed and how much authority I have. Even if it were absolute authority, I still would prefer being referred to as "Dominant" rather than "Master" because its the identity that makes me feal the most comfortable and what I think works best for me. This might change years down the road. Who knows?

So in the end, the only real difference in the idenitites is defined by you and what works best for your relationship. Since all the relationships are based on the same basic concept of "consentual submission", in reality, to me at least, there is very little actual difference. Just different hats for the same thing. The only exception is the term "Top" where I draw a distinct distinction for that, apart from Dominant/Master/Owner.

Just my two cents as always

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 2/12/2007 5:09:40 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/12/2007 7:01:19 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Responsibilities are whatever the two of you agree on beforehand. I suggest you think about what you do need in a relationship in the future, write it down and refer to it when feeling swept away. You might also want to hard limit finding other women to clear away those types first off.

(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/12/2007 4:10:34 PM   
chainedfarida


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Areflectionofyou

There are lessons in life we all learn. One  would be not accepting a collar from someone whom you don't know very well , and better yet trust your life with.



thank you i agree

far

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/12/2007 4:12:22 PM   
chainedfarida


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		many thanks to everyone that replied, it gives me lots to think on and definetly something not to do again until i know the questions to ask and can sit down and discuss it clearly before being as it was said "swept away".

far

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/12/2007 8:51:32 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Ran across something else that I'm just going to toss out there.

Ownership and Mastery can be seperate, I may own a slave and then lease them out/ rent them out/ loan them out for an extended period. During that time their "Master" the one in control of their daily lives is someone else. Meanwhile they are still "Owned" by me.

Just another perspective to muddy the waters a bit more.

(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/12/2007 10:26:20 PM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, I don't think it would have mattered if you called him "Master", "Owner", or "Royal Prince of Darkness" in the end, he wanted to use you to contact other people on his behalf, which IMO is not much of a relationship at all. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you but it seems you've learned at least one important lesson.

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(in reply to chainedfarida)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Owner vs Master - 2/13/2007 3:04:10 AM   
beltainefaerie


Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline
It seems like you encountered a bad match and there was lack of communication.  Generally with wiitwd there needs to be much more communication.  There are so many ideas of what each term implies that it is better to figure out what terms mean to each person and how the dynamic of your relationship will work before there is any actual submitting/collaring, etc. 
My use of the terms owner and master is different than many people.  My vanilla husband is my owner, though we have sometimes jokingly used the terms "keeper" or "handler".  My Master is the one I submit to and serve under the terms that were negotiated between my owner and Master.  They determined (and I agreed to) how I was allowed to serve and how my owner/husband/Love would allow me to be used.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 40
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