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Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 7:38:15 AM

BitaTruble

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There is a whole lot of emphasis placed on a man's cock and how it relates to their manhood. As an example, the whole Gorean subculture of natural order is defined on whether or not you have a cock between your legs. There are certain subjects which are only fit to be discussed by those with cocks and if you don't have a cock, your freedom is tenuous and subject to the whims of those who do have a cock. The cock is mightier than the sword and weilded as the arbiter of separation between the sexes. The sole arbiter.

We judge everything about cocks: length, girth, cut, uncut, hard, soft, how often to you touch it, have it sucked, use it to fuck. I mean, it's a pretty damn important body part and yet, we don't seem to talk to much about it, or, more specifically, about power and how it relates to the cock.

Up to one half of all the men on this board have or will have some sort of issues with erectile dysfunction by the time they are 40. That's a fact. (Seriously, google it if you don't believe me!)

So, are men with ED using BDSM to compensate for the inability to fuck effectively or, in some cases, to fuck at all? Is the power of pleasure being transfered into sado-masochistic acts and M/s lifestyles because of internal, physical phallus failure? The answer has got to be 'yes' in some cases. There are as many reasons to enter into BDSM and D/s as there are people on the planet who engage. Is phallus failure a valid and honest reason though? Is it being disingenous to make a claim of dominance when the only reason you put on that cloak is because you can't get it up? What about wearing the submissive hat? Is it lying to make a claim of submission when your reality is that you can't get it up so turn to service (etc) to compensate?

For those involved long term, who own dominance or submission as part of their nature, who are unhappy living life any other way, such will effect them as well but does it matter that they were here to begin with, immersing themselves into BDSM because they felt the pull of the beast? Are BDSM and D/s being inundated with men who don't actually engage in power exchange but are simply involved as some sort of compensation for phallus failure.. and.. does it matter?

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 2/11/2007 7:39:47 AM >

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RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 7:43:57 AM

SimplyMichael

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People come to BDSM for many reasons and I think that the reasons you mention play a significant part.

Don't think this is a soley het phenominom, playing without sex happens with gay men as well, some fuck like rabbits on speed, others don't do it at all.

I think WIIWD ONLY becomes unhealthy when the reasons you are doing this are not openly recognized. This is one of the many reasons you hear all the bullshit mumbo jumbo people make up to rationalize what they are doing.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 2

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 8:00:33 AM

juliaoceania

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Thought Provoking!

quote:

So, are men with ED using BDSM to compensate for the inability to fuck effectively or, in some cases, to fuck at all?

I think this view is as valid as some of the theories as it relates to less than gorgeous women in the lifestyle, and how they are compensating... good observation Celeste. Both male and female often attempt to compensate for diminshing sexual power perhaps?

quote:

Is the power of pleasure being transfered into sado-masochistic acts and M/s lifestyles because of internal, physical phallus failure?

I think it is possible with some men that it could be, but it would be hard to get the answers in my opinion

quote:

Is it being disingenous to make a claim of dominance when the only reason you put on that cloak is because you can't get it up? What about wearing the submissive hat? Is it lying to make a claim of submission when your reality is that you can't get it up so turn to service (etc) to compensate

Perhaps it is as valid a reason to seek power exchange as any other is? I mean look at the opposite side of the spectrum with women using BDSM to retain their sexuality, does that make them not seeking power exchange, or was it just the impetus for it?

quote:

For those involved long term, who own dominance or submission as part of their nature, who are unhappy living life any other way, such will effect them as well but does it matter that they were here to begin with, immersing themselves into BDSM because they felt the pull of the beast?

As a female with masochistic desires, aging will have a direct impact on my play one day. I do not know when, but it will diminsh my ability to explore this. My own motive is not this, nor is my Dom's, but in some ways i feel it will be sad to see that part of us diminish as my skin gets thin, and my bones get brittle.

quote:

Are BDSM and D/s being inundated with men who don't actually engage in power exchange but are simply involved as some sort of compensation for phallus failure.. and.. does it matter?

I do not know if it matters, I think it might bother me if I felt the only thing my partner got out of beating me was a phallic replacement. I am a more intellectually stimulated and more emotionally stimulated person than to be attracted to someone that was trying to hold on to part of themselves through surrogate. But here is the question, just because one becomes attracted to BDSM for this reason, does not mean they remain because of it. I cannot imagine being female, but losing one's sexual vigor through ED would probably become a process of acceptance, and I can imagine if a man was attracted to WIITWD for that reason, he could find his "beast" once he explores it. I do not know if it matters as long as all are satisfied and happy with what they are doing.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 2/11/2007 8:01:03 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 3

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 8:01:45 AM

toservez

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From: All over now in Minnesota
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I do not have a cock so I can answer directly but certainly agree with Michael that there are people that come into this lifestyle for reasons other then it is purely in their nature.

I also think the problem comes in when the reason that brought in is really the only reason you are pursuing the life and that not communicated like Michael wrote or you cannot maintain a healthy relationship in the life because in the end it really is not you.

Threads and especially recently has given many of the things that can bring someone into this life. ED, people unconsciously trying to self medicate mental issues and people trying to get someone they cannot get in a vanilla setting come to mind. For some they find out they are really not dominant or submissive in this nature and leave. For others, they can very much be dominant and submissive and/or life does fix these problems nicely. I have no idea what the percentage would be or the chicken or egg nature of them coming into the life.

We are all looking for “the match”. What type of things in our daily life that will make us happy.

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 8:10:37 AM

KatyLied

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It's something to think about.

I've heard Doms comment that not-so-attractive women are into bdsm as a way to find affection/sex, as if it's the last possibility for them to get these things and they aren't *real* subs, they are just "desperate". I don't know how these women are presenting themselves to potential Doms, but there must be a common denominator that causes Doms to make these type of comments.

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RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 8:22:54 AM

SirDominic

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The drug companies call it erectile dysfunction, and they are making billions selling drugs that compensate for men who don't have the ability to keep it up as they used to. This being the case, I don't see why there would be a need for men to get into BDSM to compensate for the inability to fuck effectively. Not saying there aren't any, just that I'd expect it would not be a primary reason for most.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 6

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 8:30:03 AM

MistressDolly

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A couple years ago, I knew a married male dom whose wife allowed (or "tolerated") him playing around with submissive women, so long as he didn't engage in penetration with them. According to him, that was his compensation and way of having his cake and eating it too.

(He actually did penetrate the women using a strap-on.)

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 7

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 8:44:27 AM

LadyEllen

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So, what we're saying is, if a man isnt hard up, he can get fed up and then want to be tied up?

E

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RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 8:51:54 AM

KatyLied

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quote:

if a man isnt hard up, he can get fed up and then want to be tied up?

I think it's more: if a man isn't hard up, he can get fed up and then want to tie up subs and then say he's in charge and all powerful and wants to tease her by not penetrating (when in reality penentration was never an issue because he can't do it).

_____________________________

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RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:00:56 AM

domiguy

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quote:

juliaoeania

Thought Provoking!

Why is this thought provoking....and why overwieght women who are attracted to this...is not?

I have no idea if there is a correlation....There just might be....don't know....My personal belief is it is tied to the exact same reason that there are....shhhhhh( a higher proportion of over weight women who seem to frequent this thang that we do)

But when all is said and done what does it matter?...It is what it is.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/11/2007 9:04:06 AM >

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RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:10:40 AM

lateralist1

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Does it matter what the reason as long as you are honest about it?
Especially to the person who you are hoping to have a relationship with.
It's perhaps easier for a woman than a man.
In general people expect women to want to have relationships rather than to play around.
And maybe the world is changing enough to accept that men want relationships as well.
Perhaps they are just not as good at them as women are.
I really believe that both sex and BDSM are not as satisfying on a casual basis as within a relationship.
As a Domme it's totally frustrating just to play with someone.
And as a woman I am not going to indulge in what is my sexuality with someone that I wouldn't have a vanilla relationship with.
That rather narrows the field somewhat.
I think we all know that it's going to be difficult to find a partner that suits us.
That's why a lot of us are prepared to do almost anything in vanilla terms to be with the person that we find compliments us totally.
So if we are complimentary in every other way except for the hard cock then surely there are ways around it.
And of course there is that little thing called love that might just make it worthwhile.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 11

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:19:14 AM

elderrook

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

The drug companies call it erectile dysfunction, and they are making billions selling drugs that compensate for men who don't have the ability to keep it up as they used to. This being the case, I don't see why there would be a need for men to get into BDSM to compensate for the inability to fuck effectively. Not saying there aren't any, just that I'd expect it would not be a primary reason for most.

I would agree. It would be much easier to turn to a simple drug to solve a problem such as ED, rather than to delve into the world of BDSM to solve it. If one enters this realm, I can only imagine there's SOMETHING therein that drew them, other than compensating for ED. If the OP was correct with her statistics, then it only makes sense that half the men who are into BDSM are also suffering from ED. In an environment where sexual activities are a bit more open, this could become more apparent, as how would you know who suffers from this in the vanilla world? I can personally say that I have never had a discussion with any of my male friends about ED. Not really something that pops up in a conversation.

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 12

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:19:33 AM

MaryT

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic
The drug companies call it erectile dysfunction, and they are making billions selling drugs that compensate for men who don't have the ability to keep it up as they used to. This being the case, I don't see why there would be a need for men to get into BDSM to compensate for the inability to fuck effectively. Not saying there aren't any, just that I'd expect it would not be a primary reason for most.

I agree, Sir Dominic. A diminished libido happens on both sides of the kink track and to both sexes. It doesn't make sense to me that someone who loved wiitwd would jump to the other side as a way to compensate. The reverse doesn't ring true either, especially given the numerous, effective treatments.

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 13

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:25:17 AM

BitaTruble

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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Why is this thought provoking....and why overwieght women who are attracted to this...is not?

I find the two subjects to be equally valid to discuss and yet there are, literaly, hundreds of pages of posts devoted to weight issues, and very few devoted to this issue. Or, perhaps, neither merits much time or thought at all. I guess it boils down to perception. I had a nightmare about snakes last night which woke me up and this is what I wrote when I couldn't get back to sleep. ::chuckles::

quote:

I have no idea if there is a correlation....There just might be....don't know....My personal belief is it is tied to the exact same reason that there are....shhhhhh( a higher proportion of over weight women who seem to frequent this thang that we do)

That seems to be a reasonable conclusion and no doubt true in some cases.

quote:

But when all is said and done what does it matter?...It is what it is.

I think it matters only in so far as it relates to any particular and personal relationship between people. I don't think I've ever seen anyone freely admit they got into BDSM because they were unable to engage in sex due to erectile dysfunction nor have I seen anyone freely admit they got into BDSM because they couldn't find a partner outside of it due to their weight. I think it would be hard to admit either of those things. Personally, I absolutely got into BDSM because my head was fucked up, but once here, I found myself (read that as got over my fucked up issues) and learned and have grown from my experiences from engaging in it. So, my reason for coming here is not my reason for staying here and now, I don't want to be anywhere else. That said, my reasoning was not something that I could have acknowledged in the beginning because I didn't recognize the truth of it. Hindsight, in my case, has truly been 20/20. SimplyMichael was spot on with his observation about mental health and honest motives. I made an unhealthy choice which resulted in improved mental health, but damn if I don't recognize just how lucky I am that things worked out that way.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 14

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:28:05 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

juliaoeania

Thought Provoking!

Why is this thought provoking....and why overwieght women who are attracted to this...is not?

I have no idea if there is a correlation....There just might be....don't know....My personal belief is it is tied to the exact same reason that there are....shhhhhh( a higher proportion of over weight women who seem to frequent this thang that we do)

But when all is said and done what does it matter?...It is what it is.

It matters because sooner or later all men have trouble getting it up. All of you will have this trouble, and if you ask me, women are rather more kind about this difficulty than men are in the physical flaw department when it comes to being fat or old. It matters because even if we are not fat, we all get old.

Also, I will say that I would like to see your proof that there are more fat women doing this than there are in the regular vanilla world? I walk into Walmart, and there are plenty of fat people there. I work at a warehouse right now, and there are a lot of fat people running around in there. Go check profiles and add up the chubby's versus the thinnies, and i will guess that the ratio "might" be a little higher because we get fatter as we get older, and there are more older people doing this than other sexual lifestyles, like swingers for example. What I have noticed is more people over 40 doing this, and that this might skew the perception that we are all fatter.

If that is the case, I would guess that the way men age (failure to get an erection as they get older) would be analogous to how women age (getting fat).

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 15

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:35:12 AM

juliaoceania

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I wanted to add, I have no problem staying with a man that has ED if that were to happen to the man I love. I also know that any man I love and submit to would not dump me because I gained weight, so I do not see my post here contradictory in the way I view bashing fat people. I do not bash people or judge them for being fat, disabled, having ED, being a different color than myself, or a different religion, and I have low tolerance for those who do bash others.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 16

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:35:53 AM

lateralist1

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I came into this lifestyle for what I thought were all the wrong reasons.
The wrong reasons went away I became less fucked up.
I stay because it is my sexuality.
Maybe there are a lot more of us.
If we think it might help then do it.
As long of course that you don't get well at someone elses expense.
I hope I am helping a few people along the way.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 17

RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:46:55 AM

domiguy

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Very good points! There could be a correlation like I mentioned before...A guy who can't sport "wood" may find that he can still have "intimate" contact with a woman and not feel as though he has lost his ability to be in control.....And let's face it....The definition of a man in this society(at least in a guys mind) is somehow always tied to his dick. But I have the feeling that there is more of an obvious underlying cause/effect as to why a substantial amount of people have gotten into this thang.

Perhaps a new thread should be titled, "Why do many people who frequent this site shop at Walmart?" But honestly there is probably a correlation there if you really wanted to take the time to find it.....I could easily guess why this is so.

(Domiguy stares down at his flacid and lifeless penis and sighs......Wants to take out his anger for his inabilities on the women of the world....Me no erection!...You will all pay!!!)

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/11/2007 10:31:59 AM >

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RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 9:52:09 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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YOU may be on to something ,I know a dom that is a sadistic sob and he couldn't get it hard if his life depended on it.SO I would say many use s and m as a boost to their sex life..Many of us at a certain time couldn't get it to work ie young and old... too much to drink working too hard..Theses days there is much help for this problem...the little blue pill works miracels they say...BH

< Message edited by BOUNTYHUNTER -- 2/11/2007 9:55:31 AM >

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RE: Compensating for phallus failure? - 2/11/2007 10:04:08 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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Bita (firstly, let me say, good post :) The other side of this coin is that men and women come to wiitwd because we basically have a workable outline.

A Master now has a reason to make demands, without having to be PC, exactly what he wants because he has donned the mantle of a "Master". It makes no difference if he has no knowledge of a woman because it's HER responsibility to please HIM and if she doesn't know.. well then it's HER fault. (there ARE some decent men who bother to learn about females enough to actually teach and guide if needed). The comfort zone of potentially having a rejection factor from a female is greatly reduced and the ego is preserved if not expanded (speaking strictly Het here because.. well, that's what I know).

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I'm not inflatable.

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Post #: 20

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