RE: Please help me understand.

RE: Please help me understand. (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 5:38:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin At the risk of being shredded to mincemeat, I am going to take what you said and go one step further and include the people who get together and play occasionally and have NEVER lived in a 24/7 relationship. I don't think that either of these groups have any idea what it is like to live this "real time" day in and day out. I don't think that what they are doing is wrong, heck if it pleases them then who am I to say they shouldn't? I do think, however, that they should refrain from giving advice to those who are living this day to day "real time". I think it is very much like someone reading a copy of Prevention magazine and then thinking they are or portraying themself to be qualified to perform surgery. It could be downright dangerous. If I understand you correctly, oh and please correct me if I'm wrong, because I have never had a 24/7 live in slave but rather a multitude of experiences as Domme, Top, Sadist, Masochist, Bottom with men and women over the last 12 years and it has been my choice to have a poly lifestyle with no live in partner, every single bit of advice, information, wisdom, etc that I have shared with you is obsolete it seems... Interesting perspective. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 5:39:47 PM)
Oh wait! I also had an online relationship too... at one point in my life because I felt this very deep bond with someone I met online. Damn! I must be one big phoney! - LA

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 6:02:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika If I understand you correctly, oh and please correct me if I'm wrong, because I have never had a 24/7 live in slave but rather a multitude of experiences as Domme, Top, Sadist, Masochist, Bottom with men and women over the last 12 years and it has been my choice to have a poly lifestyle with no live in partner, every single bit of advice, information, wisdom, etc that I have shared with you is obsolete it seems... Well...that's why I never listen to your advice. wink Hmmm...is someone going to make a crust to go with the mincemeat? Taggard

LadyAngelika -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 6:07:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty Well...that's why I never listen to your advice. wink Smart man!! quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty Hmmm...is someone going to make a crust to go with the mincemeat? I've got a rolling pin here... - LA

mistoferin -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 6:17:34 PM)
quote: If I understand you correctly, oh and please correct me if I'm wrong, because I have never had a 24/7 live in slave but rather a multitude of experiences as Domme, Top, Sadist, Masochist, Bottom with men and women over the last 12 years and it has been my choice to have a poly lifestyle with no live in partner, every single bit of advice, information, wisdom, etc that I have shared with you is obsolete it seems... No you are misunderstanding. What I meant was that although you and others who play regularly may have great expertise in play styles and other topics that are associated with your variety of "relationship", I think that it is MUCH different than a relationship where two people are living together under one roof, day to day, for years and years. It is very easy to maintain a Dominant or submissive role when you only have to do it while it suits you. It is entirely different to have to do it every single moment of your life with another human being. I am not taking away from what you have to offer at all. What I am saying is that, for example: a slave who has been living 24/7 with her Master for a period of 5 years comes to these boards for advice on how to get over a hurdle, I would think that someone who just plays occasionally is not necessarily the best qualified to understand what a dynamic of that sort is like and would not be the best choice for advice.

mistoferin -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 6:21:56 PM)
quote: Are you saying that those of us that have Doms/Masters/subs/slaves that are not in a 24/7 live in relationship (though see/speak to each other daily) are not "real time" No I did not say that....I referenced online, on phone and occasional players....not those who see each other real time regularly.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 6:27:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: If I understand you correctly, oh and please correct me if I'm wrong, because I have never had a 24/7 live in slave but rather a multitude of experiences as Domme, Top, Sadist, Masochist, Bottom with men and women over the last 12 years and it has been my choice to have a poly lifestyle with no live in partner, every single bit of advice, information, wisdom, etc that I have shared with you is obsolete it seems... No you are misunderstanding. What I meant was that although you and others who play regularly may have great expertise in play styles and other topics that are associated with your variety of "relationship", I think that it is MUCH different than a relationship where two people are living together under one roof, day to day, for years and years. It is very easy to maintain a Dominant or submissive role when you only have to do it while it suits you. It is entirely different to have to do it every single moment of your life with another human being. I am not taking away from what you have to offer at all. What I am saying is that, for example: a slave who has been living 24/7 with her Master for a period of 5 years comes to these boards for advice on how to get over a hurdle, I would think that someone who just plays occasionally is not necessarily the best qualified to understand what a dynamic of that sort is like and would not be the best choice for advice. erin, You know, just when I think you can't put your foot in your mouth any deeper, I see your knee go past your lips. You know absolutely nothing about what I have had to endure relationship wise, what hurdles I've had to overcome, what joys I've shared or the dynamics of my Domme/sub relationships. Perhaps I don’t have to keep an eye on my sub 24/7 to ensure that they are devoted to me. Perhaps I am secure in the fact that those feelings do not turn off. If you don't want to listen to my advice, then don't. But do not discredit my advice because once again it doesn't fit into your perfect little model. I've tolerated your ignorance in the past but now I see that you have a one-track mind of what is pure and perfect and it is what mirrors your life. I feel sorry for you actually. You are so full of yourself that you are actually quite empty. - LA

mistoferin -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 6:42:18 PM)
I have never personally attacked you or your personality, or for that matter anyone elses's on these boards. While you have every right to disagree with anything or everything I have to say on these boards, you DO NOT have the right to personally flame me. In case you aren't aware it is against the TOS of this site. I will not sink to your level to rebutt you in that manner.....regardless of my personal opinions of you.

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 6:50:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin What I meant was that although you and others who play regularly may have great expertise in play styles and other topics that are associated with your variety of "relationship", I think that it is MUCH different than a relationship where two people are living together under one roof, day to day, for years and years. People who fit that description are a tiny fraction of the people who do what we do. If they were to come here and ask for advice and only those who fit that description gave it, it would be a rather quiet thread. By the same token, should those who have never just played around be banned from threads about play? Personally, I welcome advice from the newbie and the Grand Master. I appreciate an outlook that is different from mine. I take what they say, weigh it against what I know, use what I can, and toss away the rest. Free advice is always worth at least what you paid for it... Taggard

proudsub -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 7:00:57 PM)
quote: What is the "BEST RESULT" you can expect from an on-line encounter? For me it was learning about this lifestyle. It woke me up sexually and got rid of my sexual inhibitions, which Hubby benefited from btw. It taught me what had been missing from my life all those years. I knew nothing about BDSM until i met a dom online. He had had a real time sub before he married and was quite experienced. I think it can be very rewarding with a good imagination and complete honesty. I thoroughly enjoyed the fantasy parts of the relationship, but it was certainly much more than "mutual masturbation". He had me do many things throughout the day in real time, just not in his presence, and then report back to him. He also had me do things with Hubby that i probably would never of tried otherwise, for example swallowing. He gave me my first experience with erotic pain, which has given me a whole new outlook on life. If it hadn't been for him i wouldn't be on CM today and i would still be in a very boring sexual relationship with Hubby. quote: I believe that an online relationship is only as real as the two people invovled want it to be. I wanted, desperatly, to serve the person I was with, so I took it -very- seriously. I didn't fudge or lie. I acted in the same way I do with my partner now. The only difference was that our interaction took place through the net. I maintain that online is a good place to start, because it gives you a chance to make sure "this" works for you whithout putting yourself or somoene else in danger. Personally, having moved off line I couldn't go back. However, I understand the appeal. To me, the important thing is honesty. If you want online only, say you want online only. Be clear about what you want and where you're coming from and you can find partners that work for you. Very well said perverse, that's exactly how it was for me too. I am also glad i moved on to real life, but that would never have happened without the online relationship first.

SherriA -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 7:01:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin What I am saying is that, for example: a slave who has been living 24/7 with her Master for a period of 5 years comes to these boards for advice on how to get over a hurdle, I would think that someone who just plays occasionally is not necessarily the best qualified to understand what a dynamic of that sort is like and would not be the best choice for advice. Frankly, anyone who would come to an anonymous message board as the best sort of relationship advice without knowing how to filter the wheat from the chaff is getting what s/he deserves, imnsho. You can say that you've been in a 24/7 live-in long term relationship with someone, but none of us know if that's true or just your online fantasy. Just because you (generic you) claim some particular level of experience doesn't make it true. That's the reality of the internet. Regardless, relationships are relationships and interpersonal dynamics are interpersonal dynamics. People who do wiitwd are subject to the same kinds of relationship issues as everyone else. I don't have to have stepped in front of a bus to know that it's a bad thing to do. I don't have to have lived in a 24/7 master/slave relationship for 10 years to know that there's a problem if my needs aren't being met, nor do i need that background to give my opinion about good, healthy ways to deal with situations of that sort. If you restrict yourself to only those people who's lives mirror your own, you're missing a whole lot of valid viewpoints that might give you the perspective you need to deal with an interpersonal issue. The trick is in learning how to separate out the advice that works for you, not in finding someone who will parrot back your own particular perspective.

conflicted -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 7:09:24 PM)
quote: Personally, I welcome advice from the newbie and the Grand Master. I appreciate an outlook that is different from mine. I take what they say, weigh it against what I know, use what I can, and toss away the rest. i totally agree. Also..... the time and thought it took for the advice to be given, is something that is also appreciated by most that ask for it. n

Shayna -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 7:26:10 PM)
First of all, I agree with proudsub. My first Master I met online, tho subsequently we met in person...but only for a couple weekends. I learned a shitload from him. He's the one that pushed me to get out and go to my first munch. He's the one that taught me about the connection between pleasure and pain - first over the phone giving me instructions, then in the RT we spent together. I don't understand how other's can't understand that feelings about someone can happen in any medium. I played an online computer game for 3 years and witnessed many relationships develop online, then move offline. My closest friend is in town this weekend and is now married to a man she met in the game we played. For the six months before they met, their relationship wasn't "valid"? Sorry that's a bunch of crap. If you haven't experienced what that might be like, then just say that. But judging someone else's experience is ignorant (my opinon). I also agree with Sherri about not having to have experience with everything out there in order to have a helpful, knowledgable opinion. If that was true, then I'd only be able to talk to other jewish, 48 yo, single, childless, bisexual, middle class, female, blah blah blah. The friend I referred to above gives me the most amazing advice: she's 19 years younger than me and has lived a completely different life. How do ya account for that? Lots of people have given me amazing guidance and assistance in my life who are very different from me. hands out crow bars to pry people's minds open

LadyAngelika -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 7:34:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shayna Lots of people have given me amazing guidance and assistance in my life who are very different from me. Isn't it amazing? quote: ORIGINAL: Shayna hands out crow bars to pry people's minds open You can give them a crow bar, doesn't mean they are going to use it. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 7:40:38 PM)
quote: I have never personally attacked you or your personality, or for that matter anyone elses's on these boards. No. You just personally attack everything that is not like you over and over. Perhaps I was a little harsh on you. For that, my apologies. But enough is enough erin. This isn't the first time you get yourself in such a situation. You knew before you made that initial post that it was going to tick off a bunch of people otherwise you wouldn't have made the mince meat comment. Why do you feel the need to make posts that makes grand declerations about your lifestyle being optimal and telling us that we have no business speaking on issues? - LA

RiotGirl -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 7:45:47 PM)
Access denied. Not allowed to have personal information to throw in my face at a later time.

ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 8:19:10 PM)
hmmm, interesting thread, haven't read all of it, don't have the time or patience right now to do so but i'll toss in my two cents anyhow : ) i can understand why people have their online relationships...i also realize it is for the most part "fantasy" i know that a Master slave relationship, or any relationship for that matter must be real time in order for it to be ...well... real! but, having been on the other side of the spectrum myself in the past i know what it is like to meet someone online and feel swept away by them, not really understanding how you can have all those feelings about a person you haven't even met face to face....was it real love...no, of course not, but it sure did feel good! There was a time that i was not in any condition to meet anyone, to have any real life relationships, i was going through divorce, had many problems, yadda yadda, the only moments i was able to just lose myself for a while and disconnect from all my real life problems were those times i'd go online, chat and just escape into my cyber bdsm world...it did help me in many ways. There are people who have similar situations, people who are married and it is not easy for them to turn their fantasies into reality, people who have just thei own issues that prevent them from taking their cyber world and making it a reality .... eventually, when i was ready, i did make the transition from online to real life, and now except for this message board which i am kinda hooked on, i do not feel the need to chat online, or to have a o/l relationships....i am very happily owned in r/l, and i realize that it can never compare, i mean not even remotely close to any online relationship i had....but it served it's purpose, and because of that i can understand why people do it.

RiotGirl -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 8:24:57 PM)
Access denied. Not allowed to have personal information to throw in my face at a later time.

Shayna -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 8:40:26 PM)
I thought of a couple other things I wanted to add: People gravitate to online for a ton of different reasons. I know for me that when I spent a lot of time with online relationships it was because I moved 3 times across states, 2x across the country, in 2 1/2 years. It was exhausting and after working all day, I loved sitting at home all cozy and chatting with all sorts of new friends from different parts of the world online. The internet is frickin amazing in that way. I've met people I never would have met otherwise. I've traveled a lot more because of people I've met on line then visited in person. What a blast! It's really what you make of it. I think people online are a LOT like what they are in person. That's been my experience. Some people are online because they have crippling low self-esteem. Some people are incredibly shy. Some people are 16 y.o. gay teens isolated somewhere in Wyoming. Others work 2 jobs and have 3 kids and only have free time from 11p-1a and being online makes a whole lot more sense than going out to a bar. Seriously, so what? Have some compassion and empathy for folks, and cheer them on that they've found a way to have "companionship" that works for them. And since the mind is the biggest sex organ, is it really surprising that cyber/phone sex can be hot? quote: gotten over the whole cybersex thing when i was 16 Riot, that is priceless! Shows you the difference in generations. When I was 16 I wasn't sitting home in front of a computer. I was doing the "better" real life: smoking pot, drinking and playing pool :)

sterlingsweet -> RE: Please help me understand. (3/11/2005 10:24:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FragileRose quote: So, I understand why you are asking the question, but I would hate to see online and telephone contact relegated to the status of meaningless masturbation. It has created the conditions for great change in my life, a new blossoming. Hello FragileRose, My comment about my experience with Bi women in a couple chats wasn't stating that all on-line relationships consist of "meaningless masterbation", not my words, yours. Anyway, I do find meeting people and cybering out-right in a private chat, not very informative about the lifestyle, and I do wonder what people saying they are into the life style are doing spending most of their time there with their Fantasies Capitalizations, private cyber and A/all, and half of the time never meeting each other. I can see it maybe as a somewhat first dipping of the toes experience, or using online to first meet and get to know each other, but I wonder how many people get stuck there, can not move beyond that...It seems to me very hard to call that "Real Lifestylers" . I also said each to their own Kink as long as it is SSC, also being married and doing this out side the relationship is a whole other story. I'm glad I choose to not spend my time in chat. I found out quickly that that was not where I wanted to meet someone Special. I would like to add I find the A/all a bit iritating and to slam someone who doesn't do it quite silly, especially to strangers who are not your Dom/Domina, I am also glad that English is repected here on the broads.. I think that people who meet on-line and chat then finally meet and spend time together but can not live 24/7, yes, keeping in touch and talking on the phone is very important to the dynamics of the relationship during those inbetween times. I feel the same importance to all the chatting we did before we met too. JMHO. Edited for typos[&:]

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