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RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 9:59:36 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Michael puts it ever so much better than I could.

I would second that LaT. I have no desire to be a man's sex slave or slave of any type. Just because I don't have a penis doesn't mean I am inferior. To me anyone who believes in the supremacy of their gender is just as much a bigot as the person who judges another by their color.

I can respect their lifestyle as long as they do not treat me rudely or try to force it or their philsophy onto me and mine.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 41

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 10:01:40 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

so my question is, how did Gor become so much more philosophical than M/s/D/s?

It didn't. Gor is an amalgamation of many different historical philosophies and cultures culled together in the books of JN with a base of 'natural order' and some of the follwers have taken this amalgamation, embraced it and choose to live their lives based on what they perceive those philosophies to be.

Those who partake of M/s and D/s do the exact same thing, except we don't have a handbook so we take what works for us as individuals. I think it's something to note that Goreans have no problem at all discarding things of Gor (from the books) which don't fit into their lives. Goreans really are not sheeples and for those who actually live their lives with honor and integrity, I am content to call them friend. Unfortunately, online postureing gives many a bad name, but that's true of any group of people. It boils down to the exact same thing it does in M/s, some individuals are worthwhile to get to know, some aren't and it's up to each of us to figure out the difference.

quote:

While 26 books obviously will lead to the depth of what they practice, why is it a general-ish consensus that people of the BDSM in M/s realm have lower standards when it comes to protocol/roles/commitment, even etiquette ...

For those who think they have higher standards just because they embrace a set philosophy, I'd say they are living in a bit of a fantasy which has nothing to do with any books. It still boils down to a people thing. Some people set and maintain certain standards that are worthwhile, some have no standards at all. Calling oneself Gorean is not a guarentee that someone has high standards or honor or integrity. Calling oneself a Master does not mean one has high standards of honesty and integrity. It is just as likely for the lowest slave on the planet (male or female) to have more integrity and honor than anyone who calls themselves Gorean or Master.

quote:

Why is it because i post on the BDSM thread i am a player, not committed for the long haul?

People often put down others to lift themselves. Don't sweat the small stuff or the small minded. You are what you are and that's all that matters. If someone else puts you down for that, it speaks much more to their character than yours.

quote:

Do you agree that some mainstream BDSM practices overlap the Gorean lifestyle?

Absolutely, but for some reason, most goreans don't seem to like to admit it or talk much about it. I think by so doing, it could be viewed that they are 'much' more like M/s than 'not' like M/s folk and that ruins the fantasy and leads to inclusion rather than separation, a state preferred by most self-proclaimed Goreans. If the practice of Gor is a legit part of BDSM, they can't be special, nor set themselves apart from the general population, so they shun it with outward displays of contempt, but then behind closed doors, tie their slaves up and beat them silly and everyone skips off quite happy with doing it all their own way. Like many Masters, Goreans have a certain persona which must be maintained to the outside world, but the masks come off in private and, basically, they do what the hell they want just like the rest of us.

quote:

i would hope for answers from people who might know a bit about their philosophy to answer .. so that i may avoid judgmental responses from fear of the unknown

Sometimes you get what you wish for. ::grins::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 42

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 10:33:20 AM

Meerkad

Posts: 19
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline

The books/writing make some folks feel that way. It is sort of similar to how Scientology really works for some folks.

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 43

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 10:36:06 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Master Bull, can i do that to when i geta little thinner so i feel a bit more comfortable whit my body? Fall naked at your feet? :)

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 44

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 10:37:30 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

I am probably wrong whit the name. We have other names for them in Norway. They are cute ayway. You know many cultures see birds as being Devine

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to Lorelei115)

Post #: 45

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 10:48:48 AM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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Okay let this Gorean add to threads on this topic. First and foremost I as a Gorean do not think of myself as superior to Non-Goreans. I have many friends who are Non-Goreans and I accept them and they accept me. There is a philosphical lifestyle, a value system that I belive is lacking in the modern world. As "We believe Men are Superior to Women etc". If you had read the books there are Free Women and Women in Power. What Goreans believe is more of a Natural Order, there are those who are to rule. Look at nature and you will see many such examples.

I wish you well

Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to nephandi)

Post #: 46

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 11:34:20 AM

Lashra

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Joined: 2/9/2006
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Yes do look to nature and you will find matriarch led species and also others that are a patriarch led. Nature is very diverse and humans are one of her most complex children. If you study the history of humans you will find societies led by a matriarch system and then those that are led by a patriarch system.

My conclusion is that we each have dom/sub qualities or facets to our personalities. We are dominant to some while submissive to others. I do not know many people who were not submissive to their own Mother. Perhaps nature did this for a reason. Perhaps nature did it so we attempt to work together as equals to better ourselves and our way of life.

I know many will not agree with me and some will even laugh. That is fine. It is my opinion based on fact as I percieve it and I am sticking to it.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 47

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 2:17:01 PM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

celeste, lovely reply thank you.
Nosathro - thank you for sharing also

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 48

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:21:19 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Nosothro,

quote:

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

Before you go talking of free women and how egalitarian gore is you might want to edit your sig line, it sort of blows the whole image...

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 49

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:27:51 PM

slavekara

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I think it's totally rediculous...Running around like knights and maidens...What the fuck?....hmmm...that might be the SCA....oops.

Greetings All,

This girl would like to correct you in your statement. and ask a simple question. Do you see a person who believes in the Gorean philosephy run around with swords and claim women as slaves? Answer is No. Goreans also don't base their lives by the books, that is simply impossible. for those who have read even one book would understand why.

Most Goreans base their lives around the philosephy which is based on fact. Not fiction. In the books Men were the hunters/warriors and the women were subjected to their every whim., whether they wanted to or not.
That may sound familiar, it may not but. But if you have wider-mind. You would realise, that this is how it was. At a certain point in time Men were the leaders and women stayed in the backround and kept their mouths closed and just did what they could to make that man happy.

Gor isnt special, actually it can be quite a harsh way of life, but as we are all humans and in today's society we are all equal, but Goreans minds are not.

It is just the same as a vanilla thinking that a spank on the arse is quite sexy (it is but its the tip of the ice-berg). People cannot fully understand something when they haven't done it, or gone further then they are at.

This girl hopes her opinion does not offend anyone. That wasnt this girl's intention.

slave kara (A)

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 50

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:29:00 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

While I really respect your opinions, I want to ask you: If women are so equal and respected in Gorean books and lifestyle, why is it always the love of the slave who is praised? Why are most of the Gorean men here seeking slaves and not Free women?

Honestly I don't see a difference between lifestyle master/slave AKA dominance/submission AKA [insert your personal titles] and Gor except one picks a book and bases their life on it. That difference doesn't seem like much to me in the grand scheme of things.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 51

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:34:07 PM

slavekara

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline

Greetings Aquaticsub,

This girl would like to answer your question. In the books free women are just uncollared slaves, this girl metioned in her last post that in the books the philosephy was that Men are leaders, no matter what and in the books a free woman was just a women who didnt belong. to a man.

Its the philosephy that was around many hundred years ago.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 52

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:37:25 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

slave kara,

Which is it, gore is based on "real life" or the books? Either way, it isn't any more "harsh" than anything else.

As for the books, I read them in junior high and got bored with them then, despite it being an age when I would masterbate over nearly anything.

There is a reason most people who do gore don't have real pictures in their profiles, don't go to real world events, and in general live what most in the rest of collarme would consider a fantasy life.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 53

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:41:40 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, I am not rushing to his defense, but I will amble towards it.

He did not claim it was egalitarian. However, there are women who are Masters of women, and the opposite, and women who are Masters of men, and the opposite, and there are homosexuals, and any combination that exists in these other forums including goofers and gamers.

his sig reveals his desire, just as anyone out here knows I am head-o-nistic, but nothing in that philosopy requires that LaTigress come to the square and hairy side ..the sandbox is big enough for us both, and we don't HAVE to share toys.

I was involved heavily in the great and bloody gorean forum wars of aught four, claiming overall a distinction without a difference, save one---there is no submissive top and bottom stuff, it is slave and Master, whole hog.

I am only a man, not BDSM, not Gor, but everybody is in the main just fine with whatever cranks them up, in my mind.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 54

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:43:36 PM

sensualmagirl

Posts: 1065
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline

I will say upfront, I have little to no idea bout the Gorean lifestyle, as I am not a part of it, nor do I see myself part of it. But, I am finding this an interesting thread...

However, I had a question about this statement:

"Gor isnt special, actually it can be quite a harsh way of life, but as we are all humans and in today's society we are all equal, but Goreans minds are not. "

I want to ask because that last bit (bold text) makes them come off sounding "snobbish" to people who are not "Gorean" -- is this honestly how they view the rest of the human race? That they are more intelligent than the rest of us? It sounds like it to me and it's a bit frightening of a statement.

Thank you.

_____________________________

"The most important thing in any relationship is not what you get but what you give" --Eleanor Roosevelt

MySpace

(in reply to slavekara)

Post #: 55

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:46:11 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

I guess we could use "art" as a descriptive for Gor. Life is imitating this art, just as Norman/Lang drew on a lot of cultural elements through out history to make his art, we are confronted with the conundrum of "life imitating art or art imitating life". To me it doesn’t matter. As long as it is working for you, more power to you. A long time a go a bunch of fat guys with wooden teeth had a fantasy and it worked out for them.

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to sensualmagirl)

Post #: 56

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:49:05 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sensualmagirl

I will say upfront, I have little to no idea bout the Gorean lifestyle, as I am not a part of it, nor do I see myself part of it. But, I am finding this an interesting thread...

However, I had a question about this statement:

"Gor isnt special, actually it can be quite a harsh way of life, but as we are all humans and in today's society we are all equal, but Goreans minds are not. "

I want to ask because that last bit (bold text) makes them come off sounding "snobbish" to people who are not "Gorean" -- is this honestly how they view the rest of the human race? That they are more intelligent than the rest of us? It sounds like it to me and it's a bit frightening of a statement.

Thank you.

It is an antiquated notion that was fashionable in the 11th century. Gor is the dark ages preserved. Which many people revel in the fantasy. Just watch harlequin and zebra romance stocks.

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to sensualmagirl)

Post #: 57

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:51:00 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekara

Greetings Aquaticsub,

This girl would like to answer your question. In the books free women are just uncollared slaves, this girl metioned in her last post that in the books the philosephy was that Men are leaders, no matter what and in the books a free woman was just a women who didnt belong. to a man.

Its the philosephy that was around many hundred years ago.

That actually doesn't answer the question I asked, which is: Why, if women can be in power and be respected, do Gorean always seem to seek slaves? I have heard many times that in the books women can have places of power yet a Gorean man never seeks such a woman. That says they are viewed as unnatural and undesirable. That doesn't seem to be a good model for society. Men have been in charge of our planet for years. Look where it got us.

Furthermore, to apply that stereotype of the male as always being the superior, dominant being is exactly the same as saying all black people are inferior to white people. It's being applied blindly and this is not a natural order. If you look to nature you will find plenty of animals where the female is always the superior dominant leader.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to slavekara)

Post #: 58

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:52:54 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

It is an antiquated notion that was fashionable in the 11th century. Gor is the dark ages preserved. Which many people revel in the fantasy. Just watch harlequin and zebra romance stocks.

Hey, leave the romance novels out of this! Some of the best ones are based on the "outcast independent smart woman meets pigheaded man who changes his opinion as he realized that women can actually think". Of course the very best ones are the ones where he remains dominant and then they do wicked things.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 59

RE: what makes Gor special? - 2/13/2007 3:54:17 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

It is an antiquated notion that was fashionable in the 11th century. Gor is the dark ages preserved. Which many people revel in the fantasy. Just watch harlequin and zebra romance stocks.

Hey, leave the romance novels out of this! Some of the best ones are based on the "outcast independent smart woman meets pigheaded man who changes his opinion as he realized that women can actually think". Of course the very best ones are the ones where he remains dominant and then they do wicked things.

I would love to hear that again when you are tied to the bowsprit of my ship!

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 60

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