meatcleaver
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
quote:
ORIGINAL: caitlyn
This is going to sound cold. All I can do is disclaimer, that I don't support the war in Iraq, and wish we culd figure out a way to get our guys home, without causing a further disaster than what we have already done. But ...
...
Going to the next logical thought ... even a relatively minor war like this, is provoking a pretty bad reaction here in the States. Perhaps we are not the hyper-aggressive people that some here wish to paint. Perhaps, as I've been trying to point out for the better part of a year ... this was just a fuck up!!
The United States will not become a conquest machine. If that's what we wanted, we would have already done it. We have the power. The American people, will never stand for it.
Very excellent post, caitlyn. kudos.
Several thoughts come to mind:
1. The fact that in the American democracy the people must be "behind" any war was certainly recognized by the Founding Fathers, hence the requirement for the Congress to declare war.
Having spent quite a bit of time in the US, with the media basically in the hands of the rich and powerful and no national alternative media, government propaganda will just about always succeed. A couple of quotes from Chomsky
Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media.
“Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.
2. The downside, internationally, is that this tendency to wish to avoid war is seen as a weakness by international thugs, and often, many of our so-called "friends".
Your closest friends see you as the greater danger and wish it wasn't.
3. Seen as a weakness, the US is often put upon, and taken advantage of in many situations, in a way that few thuggish governments would ever tolerate.
LOL When has the USA been taken advantage of? Now you've made me piss my pants.
4. The downside for the world, is the American cultural tradition of Jacksonian America, where, when the people really get behind a war ... it's generally going to be a vicious, no-holds barred, to the death fight.
Yes, America does prove to be a vicious enemy. It is difficult to forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki, both needless criminal acts for the sole purpose of warning off a potential enemy.
5. Which leads me to the conclusion, that, if we turn to our natural inclination to avoid futher fighting in Iraq, and withdraw, allowing it to become an uninhibited breeding ground and a "success" for Iran and other associated groups ...
that ...
You fucked up in Iraq and now you are trying to say you are doing the world a favour. Jeez!
6. They will continue to see the US as weak and unwilling, and will eventually push us past our Jacksonian limits ....
and ...
You will remain in Iraq as long as you want Iraqi oil and when you find it too costly you will say fuck the Iraqis it is their shit hole.
7 ... end up with a massive glassly homeland in the Middle East.
Since the only people messing about in the middle east with nukes is the USA and Israel I assume that will be done to you.
To me, avoiding that possibility is worth staying in Iraq for the immediate future.
But ... "staying the course" is not a scenario that I see as too likely, absent some really stupid moves on the part of AQ and friends.
So, you could say, I support the war, in an effort to save Arabic and muslim lives.
What bollocks. Generally FirmhandKY, you might convince some of your fellow Americans you're rational but I doubt you will convince anyone outside the USA.
_____________________________
There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.
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RE: Economic Decline of United States, Eruption of US M... - 
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