RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (Full Version)

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darkinshadows -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 10:50:03 AM)

Right or wrong... Hmmmm interesting concept.

Cheating is wrong. Unless It's when I forget to pay for something at the grocery counter and no one notices 'cept me after I walked out of the door. Or when I look at the back of the crossword for an answer I can't understand. Or make up a word in scrabble just to get rid of that damn 'x'... or beat someone at the lights by taking an illegal turn or exit on the highway.... or overdo the speeding limit just to make sure I get to the place I need to get to on time...

Killing is wrong. Unless it's some guy who follows a different god to me, who cowering at my feet with the barrel of the gun pointed at Him. Or when a Person kills an unborn baby because its 'inconvenient'... or maybe that irish guy, who killed the guy, who killed another guy who killed a catholic... Or because when you was late you cheated the spead limit to drive the car faster to get to the destination on time, which meant you lost control of the car and hit the kid that was crossing the corner on the road who could of been saved if you had just not cheated that speed limit...

Killing animals is wrong! Unless they are saving me from some horrific illness. Or feeding me. Or letting me wear that lovely pair of shoes i saw... and as for that leather harness.... hmmmm

Buggary is right. Well in some states and it is. But the ones where it isn't, well, they just have silly, stupid laws anyway...

Its right to place a fatwa on a person. It's the law. Everyone knows its right. Unless your not a muslim. Then it doens't concern you... nopenopenope... break those laws...

Yes... black and white exists in a very grey world.



ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:17:23 AM)

so, there is no wrong or right? so, if your spouse cheats on you that is not right or wrong, what is it then? don't get me wrong, i am not saying we should have a witch hunt here and hang those who have cheated....personally, i could care less who cheats and who doesn't as long as it's not my spouse that's doing the cheating! but you can't stop me from believing and saying that it is wrong for a person to cheat....i find it amusing that those who choose to be dishonest will become offended if they are called on it....If you (and i mean you in the general term) want to cheat, go ahead, that's between you, your lover and spouse, but atleast realize that what you are doing is "wrong" .... don't pretend it is right because it just is not. You feel you have good reasons for being dishonest, fine...but don't become offended by someone who simply points out the truth.

[8|]again, the *you* was in general terms.



[image]local://upfiles/77460/A312E67CBDF84919876D9D7C0D90B849.gif[/image]



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:23:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
so, there is no wrong or right?


This is a really great question.

What I am trying to say, and I think Angel is really saying the same thing, is that there is no universal right and wrong. Of course, you will have your own idea of right and wrong, and you are certainly within your rights to say, "This is wrong, for me."

Yet, to boldly declare that anything is universally right or wrong begs the questions: "And how do you know that it is right or wrong for everyone?" Did you read it in a book? Did you learn it on your pappy's knee? Did you read it on the walls of a pyramid or maybe a cave?

You may have lived your life and decided that cheating was wrong...great, just don't presume to apply your life's lessons to others. You want to shout out that something is right or wrong for you...wonderful, just don't be surprised when others ask you to kindly shut up.

Taggard



quietkitten -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:34:30 AM)

Kindly direct me to the book of right and wrong.... where it is all spelled out in black and white for me. I would really like to see this listing of the rights and wrongs in this world...

Edited because I need to learn to keep my mouth shut....



ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:36:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
so, there is no wrong or right?


This is a really great question.

What I am trying to say, and I think Angel is really saying the same thing, is that there is no universal right and wrong. Of course, you will have your own idea of right and wrong, and you are certainly within your rights to say, "This is wrong, for me."

Yet, to boldly declare that anything is universally right or wrong begs the questions: "And how do you know that it is right or wrong for everyone?" Did you read it in a book? Did you learn it on your pappy's knee? Did you read it on the walls of a pyramid or maybe a cave?

You may have lived your life and decided that cheating was wrong...great, just don't presume to apply your life's lessons to others. You want to shout out that something is right or wrong for you...wonderful, just don't be surprised when others ask you to kindly shut up.

Taggard





Taggard,
It may not be universally wrong, but in THIS society we live in it isconsidered dishonest to cheat....you may convince yourself it is right, but don't try to shut anyone up who will say otherwise. You have the right to the mentality that anything goes as i have the right to say you are wrong.



[image]local://upfiles/77460/9FD29575D2714FEEB32C98518AF0C74F.gif[/image]



darkinshadows -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:37:17 AM)

All things are from a personal perspective.

Your version of what is wrong, may be different to mine, doesn't make you wrong or right. Doesn't make me wrong or right either. Just makes us different and able to realise what is wrong and right for us , as individuals.

However, you are still able to voice your opinion. But to assume that what you find as wrong or right is the universal rule can be incredibly dangerous. It can lead to cults. It can lead to mob mentality... which, has happened here on these very pages. You have a right to voice your opinion. Great isn't it? It's better than some people and communities who haven't got that right... but please, and this is a plead, not a condescending 'please'... please don't think that right and wrong exists just because a handful of people believe in one version. It's great to agree. It's even greater to disagree without pushing each others rights and wrongs on people you haven't even met.



ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:44:48 AM)

It's even greater to disagree without pushing each others rights and wrongs on people you haven't even met.

so, it's ok to push your ideals of no right or wrongs on to me and others who do believe in it ? personally, i do not get offended by anyone's point of view....but if my point of view offends, honestly i could care less.



darkinshadows -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:45:20 AM)

quote:

THIS society we live in


Which society? Yours? Mine?

Each society is different. Yours and 'mine' have a huge gap if you look into them. Even between states in the USA, societies are different.

Why do I follow a society? Simple truth is I don't. There are lots of things I pick and choose from... because I can.

In this 'society' I 'live in', smoking is seen as wrong. If I smoke, I am affecting someone else. I am affecting other things. I am affecting myself also. But I do it because I can't stop? Or because I LIKE smoking, as some people do? (not that I smoke, but I am using an example)
I have many friends where the Dominant smokes and the sub does not. Is this fair on His or Her sub/slave/kajira? No. It affects them. Who's worrying about their sub/slaves/kajiras health? Who's worrying whats going to happen to that sub/slave/kajira when that Dom dies from a smoking related illness? But isn't it just another form of cheating?



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:47:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

It may not be universally wrong, but in THIS society


What society? This message board? The BDSM community? The United States?

quote:


we live in it isconsidered dishonest to cheat....


Dishonest, certainly. But who says dishonesty is wrong? Are little white lies wrong? Is is wrong for the police to lie to a kidnapper to get him to reveal the hiding place of a child who will starve to death otherwise?

quote:


you may convince yourself it is right, but don't try to shut anyone up who will say otherwise.


When have I ever tried to shut anyone up??? I love conversation and debate...

quote:


You have the right to the mentality that anything goes as i have the right to say you are wrong.


You have the right to say that it is wrong for you...saying anything more only reflects poorly on you.

Taggard



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:54:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
so, it's ok to push your ideals of no right or wrongs on to me and others who do believe in it ?


No one is saying that there are no "rights or wrongs." What we are saying is that we understand that what is "right or wrong" for me might very well be different for others. Not only might it be different, it might be validly different.

Do I think cheating is wrong? For me, yes, I do. However, that doesn't mean it is wrong. There simply is no way I can justify such a global pronouncement.

It takes a great deal of acceptance, tolerance, and understanding to say that cheating is wrong for me and for me alone. It is a recognazation that there is no great moral authority, and that we all are responsible for our values and judgments. It opens the possibility that those who do things that we do not approve, might instead just be doing things we don't understand.

Taggard



darkinshadows -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:56:51 AM)

quote:

so, it's ok to push your ideals of no right or wrongs on to me and others who do believe in it ? personally, i do not get offended by anyone's point of view....but if my point of view offends, honestly i could care less.


I have offered a discussion. Another view. Accept or not. I have simply offered you facts... not what just my thoughts, but offered to show you examples. Where are the examples that you are correct, without it being just 'this societies' view?

I do not believe in cheating. If you have read any of my posts, you will have seen me mention this. But for me. Cheating is not for me. But would I condem a person for cheating? Never. I have done things wrong. I am not perfect. But I do know that persecution is never the answer. I would never want to be perfect. I want to learn. I do this from others. I am learning about you, right now. I am learning from you. And even if you do not realise it, you learn about me and from me.
And that to me, is the most beautiful gift we can give each other.



darkinshadows -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 11:59:19 AM)

Wow Taggard...

Are Yourself and Angel, actually agreeing?
[:D]

Peace and Love



perverseangelic -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:02:31 PM)

Angel, -please- be my best friend? Thank you for verbalizing well.



MrThorns -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:04:32 PM)

Why the new thread on a current topic? Is there a specific reason you felt that you couldn't post your rant there?

As far as you "Setting things straight", the only thing that I have seen you set straight is my belief in that you are one of the more judgemental people I have ever encountered. Sure, defend your belief system, hold to what you feel is right. I don't think anyone would argue the honor in that. But why do you have this burning need to tell other people what is right for them in their lives?

You think cheating is wrong. Great! Don't do it. You don't like what you hear on the radio? OK! Change the channel. You think that vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate? YAY! Eat whatever you want. Just don't try and push your belief system on me. We have enough people doing that as it is.

My god, freedom of choice rocks.

~Thorns



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:06:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel
Are Yourself and Angel, actually agreeing?


I was thinking the same thing...are you coming to the dark side...or am I going to the light???

Maybe we are just meeting in those shades of grey. *wink*

Taggard



darkinshadows -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:10:40 PM)

quote:

Maybe we are just meeting in those shades of grey.


[:D]



ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:22:57 PM)

test



MsCameron -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:31:57 PM)

quote:

It is a recognazation that there is no great moral authority, and that we all are responsible for our values and judgments. It opens the possibility that those who do things that we do not approve, might instead just be doing things we don't understand.


In everything I've read today, this one really hit.

Well said :) and if I ever meet you, I'd like to buy you a drink.

MsC



SirKenin -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:45:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

Trade places with His wife for a while and see how you'd feel.


Ok....

*steps in shoes*

*knows and realises nothing*

*doesn't affect me*

Yet...

I can understand the point you are making. But then, many people react in different ways. Some women(and I use women as example, because that is how you have stated it) do not want to know. Some women, would pack their bags and leave. Some might jump up and down, scream, throw things. Myself? I would look at my relationship, wonder why this man has cheated on me. Why couldn't He communicate with me? What was I doing wrong? What was He doing wrong? Why couldn't He come to me? What am I not doing that meant He went elsewhere? What was he doing that meant He had to go elsewhere? Can I forgive? Who's fault is it? If anyones...

There is black and white, and there are grey areas.

You walk down the street, see a girl who is stunning... has great body, smiles wonderful, personality shines... just for a moment, you think...wow... if only. Don't say you haven't... but I bet you don't consider that 'cheating'... however, to someone else, it is...


Well first, you can't speak for her. you're not in her shoes. your obligation, then, is to assume the worst.

BTW, looking at another woman and drooling over her is not cheating, it's lust. :)



SirKenin -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:48:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCameron

quote:

It is a recognazation that there is no great moral authority, and that we all are responsible for our values and judgments. It opens the possibility that those who do things that we do not approve, might instead just be doing things we don't understand.


In everything I've read today, this one really hit.

Well said :) and if I ever meet you, I'd like to buy you a drink.

MsC



It is merely an objective assessment based on opinion as opposed to fact. 75% of the US population alone would beg to differ with you. The founding forefathers of the United States would beg to differ with you. The United States Constitution bears evidence that would beg to differ with you. US Law would beg to differ with you.

I have trouble saluting an opinion as a definitive answer. Not that I wouldn't by them a drink of course, just not on that premise.


AAARGH I can't type today.



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