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CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 1:38:17 PM   
Ambivalence


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/6/2005
Status: offline 		Review the statements below for accuracy?

The applet here is IRC-based. It's an older, but open, version of the current protocols. You're actually better off with an encrypted and proprietary standard like MSN or Yahoo than you'd be with Oscar (AIM's fairly open protocol) or IRC if you're worried about interception. And if you're visiting the site while at work, they have the DNS logs of you connecting to the server.

Besides, most any competent IT department will be monitoring incoming and outgoing IRC ports as they're the in vogue way of controlling computers that have been turned into "bots" or "drones" by a virus. IRC is a red flag.

If you're worried about evading detection by your employer, download the OS appropriate version of GAIM or Trillian and use the MSN protocol through it. And don't access the site while at work.
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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 1:44:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


And don't access the site while at work.


This last statement is probably the gold standard for discreet use at work, kinda like abstinence, you can think about it in your head, but it is like me winking at you in the dark, I know what's on my mind.....

All the other statements contain flaws.


Homeland Security.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 2/16/2007 1:51:29 PM >

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 2:11:32 PM   
Ambivalence


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/6/2005
Status: offline 		Flaws such as?

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 5:52:31 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		"If you're worried about evading detection by your employer, download the OS appropriate version of GAIM or Trillian and use the MSN protocol through it."

The employer will still see the encrypted traffic heading to/from the chat servers. Then it becomes "Why is Tommy using encrypted chat?"

Don't mix business with pleasure, unless you control the firewall logs. In which case, you're not even reading this thread.

Which even controlling the f/w logs is pointless if someone upstream is doing the logging.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/16/2007 5:53:03 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 7:02:43 PM   
Ambivalence


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/6/2005
Status: offline 		Maybe AIM express then?  That's actually Javascript-based and over http, so it shouldn't raise as many eyebrows as Java and IRC-based communication?

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 7:20:09 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Nope, anyone doing their job is going to use packet classifiers with pay attention to the destination hosts, type of traffic, etc. Even tricks like using openssh to create a vpn tunnel to another trusted machine to use as a proxy will show patterns of traffic outside of the expected traffic patterns archived in the database.

The GOOD software sends you an email telling you "Hey, there's some new kind of usage from Bob in Accounting which looks like ssh traffic to a new host I've never seen."

It all depends on how anal retentive the local sysadmins are. What the policies are. How strictly they're enforced, etc...

Lot of "Small/Medium Businesses" often won't have staff with the free time to really nail an environment down. Your mileage may vary.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 7:58:48 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		I would give you a word of warning about not depending on how strictly the policy is enforced. There will come a day when they decide to enforce it strictly and there will be no warning. I worked with 4 guys who on lunch played a computer game on the lan for over a year, then one day got called into the Director's office where they were all suspended from work for a week with no pay.

You might get by with it for a while but the day of reckoning will come and they might just be building up evidence that it was not just a one time occurance for you but a steady pattern.....

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:10:11 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		We had a group of employees who circumvented the network so they could go to the sites the company blocked and not be noticed.

"Had" is the operative word.

They were noticed.

(in reply to Ambivalence)
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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:24:01 PM   
Ambivalence


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/6/2005
Status: offline 		So, I guess the question is:  If you're going to visit collarme while at work and talk with people from the site, the way least likely to be noticed is...

AIM Express or Google Talk (over http)
The site's Java-based IRC client
A locally installed client (of any type)

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:28:04 PM   
abeyant


Posts: 13
Joined: 2/13/2007
Status: offline 		For chatting with friends at work, I use Meebo- which is like AIM express only awesome. Lets me use AIM, MSN and YIM all at once.

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:32:02 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambivalence

Review the statements below for accuracy?

The applet here is IRC-based. It's an older, but open, version of the current protocols. You're actually better off with an encrypted and proprietary standard like MSN or Yahoo than you'd be with Oscar (AIM's fairly open protocol) or IRC if you're worried about interception. And if you're visiting the site while at work, they have the DNS logs of you connecting to the server.

Besides, most any competent IT department will be monitoring incoming and outgoing IRC ports as they're the in vogue way of controlling computers that have been turned into "bots" or "drones" by a virus. IRC is a red flag.

If you're worried about evading detection by your employer, download the OS appropriate version of GAIM or Trillian and use the MSN protocol through it. And don't access the site while at work.



my IT department monitors my MSN as well as sites I visit. If you don't want ppl to know what you are into then don't do anything at work *S*  Simple as that. I've used applet programs at work but i'm not allowed to install IRC. Most major companies i've worked for don't let you use IRC to easy to get viruses transfered to you.

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:36:41 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambivalence

So, I guess the question is: If you're going to visit collarme while at work and talk with people from the site, the way least likely to be noticed is...

AIM Express or Google Talk (over http)
The site's Java-based IRC client
A locally installed client (of any type)



N.B.: Play Office Politics. PLAY IT WELL. They will fire the person LEAST LIKED vs. the person doing the MOST WRONG.

In fact, I can't remember anyone ever reviewing the chat server logs at the office until the suspect was already on his way out. They were just compiling available evidence to support the firing.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/16/2007 8:37:49 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Ambivalence)
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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:39:43 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambivalence

Review the statements below for accuracy?

The applet here is IRC-based. It's an older, but open, version of the current protocols. You're actually better off with an encrypted and proprietary standard like MSN or Yahoo than you'd be with Oscar (AIM's fairly open protocol) or IRC if you're worried about interception. And if you're visiting the site while at work, they have the DNS logs of you connecting to the server.

Besides, most any competent IT department will be monitoring incoming and outgoing IRC ports as they're the in vogue way of controlling computers that have been turned into "bots" or "drones" by a virus. IRC is a red flag.

If you're worried about evading detection by your employer, download the OS appropriate version of GAIM or Trillian and use the MSN protocol through it. And don't access the site while at work.



my IT department monitors my MSN as well as sites I visit. If you don't want ppl to know what you are into then don't do anything at work *S* Simple as that. I've used applet programs at work but i'm not allowed to install IRC. Most major companies i've worked for don't let you use IRC to easy to get viruses transfered to you.


Some joker in our Systems group had the bright idea of simply posting usage logs to an internal site, the complete logs of EVERYONE'S web usage. As POLICY a great idea. In reality, not so good. Hey, Marketing, why you all at partypoker all the time?

Marketing was NOT AMUSED. FWIW, up to the CIO, it was endorsed, but the slimeballs in Marketing got the CEO on their side. ( Heh. HE was lining up honeys for his "Business Trips", on some site somewhere or something. My memory isn't what it used to be... )

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/16/2007 8:41:16 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to akisha)
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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:48:06 PM   
kindaeasy69


Posts: 104
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline 		I'm going to throw this out there, but I suspect it will get slapped down.

First buy someone in IT a couple of beers; most of them will be more annoyed with the policies than the users.  If anyone knows how to get by it will be one of them. 

If that isn't an option and you don't really care much about your job, I see two options:

1.  Use remote desktop to connect to your PC at home (would have to be on and connected to internet).  This way you can run whatever chat programs you want, browse whatever sites you want etc.  Why this is most likely to work IMO, your IT dept probably uses this to remotely fix computers on your network, and in most cases that will include users who are at off-site locations.  It just makes it a little less likely they are going notice the traffic, since it is most likely already being used in your company, and the ports are likely to be wide open and unmonitored.

2.  You seem to be most interested in chatting via IM, you can always use a cellphone for that.  Any windows mobile device will allow you to connect to AIM, MSN, YIM, etc.  The only thing to worry about here is actually being seen by a boss or coworker.

Again, use at your own risk.  I wouldn't recommend this at all, just throwing these ideas out to see what others think.


< Message edited by kindaeasy69 -- 2/16/2007 8:52:53 PM >

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:49:56 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		*I* am more competent than our IT guy when it comes to a lot of things.  It's not a worry I have at my present job.

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 8:52:26 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

It's not just makes it a little less likely they are going notice the traffic, since it is most likely already being used in your company, and the ports are likely to be wide open and unmonitored.


If you're IT group is competent, then all traffic on every port is monitored. That which is not classified automatically is recorded and flagged for later analysis. Do not taunt Internal Audit Group.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to kindaeasy69)
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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 9:00:15 PM   
kindaeasy69


Posts: 104
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
If you're IT group is competent, then all traffic on every port is monitored. That which is not classified automatically is recorded and flagged for later analysis. Do not taunt Internal Audit Group.



I’ve worked in IT a long time, and really most at not competent.

Ok, honestly this is a hell of a lot more trouble than it’s worth.  And still runs the risk of being seen, also it will kill your productivity, but it is an option.

Smuggle in computer or laptop.
KVM and cables
Cellphone with unlimited data plan.

Editted to add:  HIDE computer or laptop in locked drawer.

< Message edited by kindaeasy69 -- 2/16/2007 9:01:03 PM >

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 9:22:25 PM   
MasterKalif


Posts: 648
Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline 		Internal Audit Group here....whats going on here? this is on record...

just kidding LOL  hahaha

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 9:45:58 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I'm a software developer and keep well read on these issues.

The fact is, as farglebargle keeps writing, any company large enough to have a decent IT department that wants to ban its employees from certain sites and activities can get software that will detect and report any attempt to circumvent the rules.

I've seen people get fired for streaming radio over the office network, playing games on company time, ebaying, chatting on AIM/yahoo/MSN and surfing porn sites. Many of these people thought they had ways around the monitoring.

If you work for a decent sized company assume every thing you use your office computer for can be scrutinized by someone else in the opperation.  A key logger might be installed which will tell them exactly what you typed. Your network traffic and DNS/DHCP queries could be logged. What ports are in use and precisely what software accessed which ports can be logged. The firewall/proxy server bewteen you office network and the internet can be set up to log a wide array of things which will make it virtually impossible to circumvent serious attempts to monitor your activity.

IOW don't use company computers for any activity you wouldn't like explaining to your boss and various higher ups.

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RE: CM While at work. Discrete use possible? - 2/16/2007 10:03:54 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		The IT department at my company is a joke. It takes them days to fix a problem and most of the time they are as if they dont exist. Still, Im usually too busy to do anything against company policy on the computer anyway.

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