RE: When do you mention it? (Full Version)

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gooddogbenji -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 4:10:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Actually this is a vanilla concept in my opinion. I have a list that has nothing to do with the lifestyle that I called my "deal breaker list". Smokers, drunks, druggies, people with HIV/AIDS or other STDs, chronically unemployed people, people with a violent criminal record that happened less than 20 years ago, people who are mentally ill to the point of needing psychotropic drugs... just a few of my deal breakers.


I actually have the opposite: a list of things you must be/have/do for me to consider dating you (not you, Julia, I think someone may object)

This list, however, ignores the obvious "She should be free of rape convictions," and focuses on "Sense of humour, spontaneous," and other such soft factors.  I always thought this list would help me to know what I want; turns out it just makes me too good for all 3 billion women out there.

No matter how many items you list on your "bad" list, another one will always pop up.  For example, have you ever considered dating a man who doesn't smoke, but buys 2 packs a day just to feel cool?

And no, there wasn't really a point to this post.

Yours,


benji




pickingrinnin -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 4:56:56 PM)

If a health issue - mental, emotional, or physical - can potentially impact a scene, then it needs to be discussed in the negotiation phase before playing with anyone for the first time.  Not doing so is unfair to the other person.

- Jesse




SassySue -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 5:11:40 PM)

[:D] grins at benji




juliaoceania -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 5:31:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Actually this is a vanilla concept in my opinion. I have a list that has nothing to do with the lifestyle that I called my "deal breaker list". Smokers, drunks, druggies, people with HIV/AIDS or other STDs, chronically unemployed people, people with a violent criminal record that happened less than 20 years ago, people who are mentally ill to the point of needing psychotropic drugs... just a few of my deal breakers.


I actually have the opposite: a list of things you must be/have/do for me to consider dating you (not you, Julia, I think someone may object)

This list, however, ignores the obvious "She should be free of rape convictions," and focuses on "Sense of humour, spontaneous," and other such soft factors.  I always thought this list would help me to know what I want; turns out it just makes me too good for all 3 billion women out there.

No matter how many items you list on your "bad" list, another one will always pop up.  For example, have you ever considered dating a man who doesn't smoke, but buys 2 packs a day just to feel cool?

And no, there wasn't really a point to this post.

Yours,


benji


Well I certainly was not concentrating on the things that I did not want when I was looking, but we all have things that are deal breakers...It is ok to know what one does not want.




FelinePersuasion -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 5:39:48 PM)

And that and other personal issues is exactly why I will never again date  people with mental illness's. I want someone wh*o's emotionally stable, and I don't want to deal with their lack of interest in life and their inability to function or when they blurt out maybe I should just kill myself or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FemmeOwner

There's a particular mindset peculiar to depression that makes things just seem not worthwhile, to the point that it doesn't even seem like taking the meds are worthwhile either. Sometimes, when you're at that bottom of the pit, and the light is so far above your head you feel like you'll never get out no matter how hard you try... some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort. 

You have to get out of the pit yourself, through counseling or whatever. The meds don't do it for you. Unfortunately the depression itself sucks all the ambition/motivation/energy from you, so you're defeated before you even start.





Devilslilsister -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 5:54:42 PM)

i dunno.... i think its generally pretty easily figured out when observing others.  For me, if some one is trying to get serious i usually get very upfront.  Like with Master, in the first week of spending time with him (and he started getting seriouser) i told him there was probably alot of things he wouldnt like, wouldnt want to deal with, ect.  i also tend to be very blunt about who i am.  I am who i am, and if you dont like it/cant handle it - we might as well get that known right up front. 

Personally i find it weeds through people very fast.  i wish others would reciprocate and save me the time too...




Amaros -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 6:32:53 PM)

This is a bit of a question for me actually - I have two complicating factors in my life, one, I have unmentionables, and for most women my age, this seems to be a dealbreaker - they don't need a mother, they have one, andI've been taking care of them since they were born - if you have some mothering instincts, that's good, but I'm not looking for a replacement mother.

Second one is, I injured my back when I was teenager, ruptured several lumbar disks, they told me to find a desk job, I wouldn't be digging ditches for a living - been digging ditches ever since. Still, while I can still work circles around teenagers, it has been bothering me more of late, and while not debilitating, it takes me a little while longer to get going some days. Oddly enough, it's worse when I don't get enough excercise, so while I try to avoid lifting engine blocks and the like, I don't make too many allowances for it.

Still, while I generally mention the unmentionables early on to get that out of the way, I'm reluctant to mention the back - for many years I couldn't get a job if I did mention it, I even lied to about it to get into the Navy, so perhaps that's contributed to my reluctance.

Oh, one more thing, I have a vasectomy, so no more kids unless you already have one - that's a dealbreaker for some women too.

Pretty ugly situation for me, the older ones don't want to deal with any more kids, the younger ones, want kids, or realistically, will want kids one day.

So anyway, in order, which thing is the first thing, and which would be the last thing you would want to hear, as a prospective? I really hate to lie, but pretty much all of this stuff sounds worse and more complicated than it actually is - except the vasectomy, which is probobly beyond reversal.




FukinTroll -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 6:38:31 PM)

~Quicky~

As a general rule I tie her up, lay out all the toys, gag her, and grab the strait razor. I then look her in the eye while twirling the razor and say: "Hi, I'm a FukinTroll and they say I am out of mind."




collaredlilone -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 6:40:33 PM)

girl is bipolar as well has other physical issues as well that she deals with daily in her life serving her Master and Mistress. for girl she cannot recall waiting for such things to be told to her Owners. this was something she took care of right off the bat. girl did this because to care for property properly they must know these things.
in girl's opinion if she may say, things such as this should be talked about as soon as posible. this builds growth and are things that must be known. girl is not Domanant, so girl cannot say really anything on this.
hope girl helped
girl




patina -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 8:08:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

This is a bit of a question for me actually - I have two complicating factors in my life, one, I have unmentionables, and for most women my age, this seems to be a dealbreaker - they don't need a mother, they have one, andI've been taking care of them since they were born - if you have some mothering instincts, that's good, but I'm not looking for a replacement mother.

Pretty ugly situation for me, the older ones don't want to deal with any more kids, the younger ones, want kids, or realistically, will want kids one day.




To the Dom here i guess i am an unusual one in that raising someone elses unmentionables would actually be a delight to me.  As all the members of my family have some kind of back issue we don't pay anyattention to the problem as far as thinking it a defect we just say pass the Tylenol please. 

Be upfront you may just be surprised by other sub/slaves who feel the same way.   We both as sub/slaves and females can surprise the hell out of you sometimes.

As far as the mental Health issues I have in my profile and in my Journals all about my Bi Polar and my other health issues.  I have discovered that the people in this lifestyle really don't care as long as you are in control of yourself.  I am still getting some kinks out of my med issue.  I will say i am stable 95% of the time.


patina  




ExSteelAgain -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/17/2007 8:45:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Actually this is a vanilla concept in my opinion. I have a list that has nothing to do with the lifestyle that I called my "deal breaker list". Smokers, drunks, druggies, people with HIV/AIDS or other STDs, chronically unemployed people, people with a violent criminal record that happened less than 20 years ago, people who are mentally ill to the point of needing psychotropic drugs... just a few of my deal breakers.


I almost didn’t comment on this since Julia usually strikes me as a wise and thoughtful poster, but something in that is cruel. I don’t have AIDS or date anyone who does, but to list someone with AIDS in the same sentence with the social misfits seems unkind to me. People with AIDS are often honorable, hard working and credible. The only thing is that they have a bad disease.  




SusanofO -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 2:00:42 AM)

I mention it upfront. I take heavy daily doses of anti-depressants, and most likely always will. I function completley normally when taking them. Without them, I am a "basket case" (within days, or a few weeks at most, of stopping my meds, usually). For years I hardly told anyone, but that was due mostly to shame, and also in some ways I did think it was a private matter. 

I suffered for years with severe depression, and it made my my life almost a living hell. I finally found a medication that worked (in my mid-twenties), and it made an almost unbelieveable difference in the quality of my life. My depression is completely bio-chemical, and genetically inherited. "Talk therapy" and "counselling" never seemed to make one whit of difference, in terms of making me feel better.

Unfortunately, this was not discovered until my parents had shelled out thousands of dollars for therapists, on the recommendation of the doctors I saw, to try to treat it. I also was exposed (several times) to the wonder of electro-shock therapy, as part of my treatment, which did help me. Unfortunately, it also erased a large part of my childhood memories - forever, apparently. But I finally found (after years of trying) a medication that worked for me. I thought it was a miracle.

About three years ago, I met a prospective Dominant, and was getting attached to him, and he found out I took anti-depressants (because I told him). He immediately started yammering on and on about how if we were together, he would never allow me to take them again, and how I'd be eating better, and taking "vitamins" instead, etc.

Then I just got really angry with him. I asked him if he had any idea what I'd been through, personally, before I started taking my current medication, or how long or seriously I was depressed, or if he was a medical doctor. I told him I thought he was acting like an imbecile, and told him he had no medical degree and was therefore not responsible enough to be considered my Dominant, as he was obviously willing to sacrifice my future and mental health, just to satisfy some weird personal belief on his part, about the acceptability of taking prescription meds to deal with depression. Then I dumped him like a hot potato.

I am sorry this has happened to you. Personally, unless this person is considering getting medical help to find a medication that works for him, I think your future together might be a challenging one. People who are very depressed and not on medication (IMO) don't always make the most involved partners, and can be weepy, bitchy, and pretty un-ambitious about changing their situations.

**However, from personal experience, I can say that it isn't usually apparent to the depressed person when they are in the throes of their illness, that there could be a "light at the end of the tunnel". I had almost completely given up on finding a medication that would improve my situation, when I found one. It is indeed very possible that he has simply not found the right anti-depressant medication for himself, and is therefore assuming there might not be one out there (which isn't an altogether unreasonable assumption).

**Maybe he stopped his current meds because they didn't work for him. Also, some anti-depressant meds have undesireable side-effects that, for some people, almost make the cure seem worse than the illness.

**I take the anti-depressant Serzone - it has no side effects (for me, or in general, supposedly) that cause weight gain, loss of sex drive, or "cotton mouth" (feeling thirsty all the time). I think it's a great anti-depressant - but I believe that anti-depressants work differently for everyone, and it took me years to discover it.    

**Meds really do (IMO) work differently for everyone. I know people who swear by Paxil, and Prozac - both of these meds, however, made me feel like jumping off a bridge somewhere and "ending it all", when I took them. My suggestion to him would be trying different ones until he finds one that works, if his current medication isn't working well for him. This is time-consuming and a bother, yes, but I don't really see an alternative. If he finds a good doctor, they will help him do this. If he has one that won't, he should probably find another doctor, instead.

I do think he might have told you sooner, but it is a tricky situation for some people, and I am glad he at least told you. Too bad you got emotionally involved first though. Hopefully, he is willing to try to find a better medication for himself to treat his depression. If not, I'd think over any further involvement with him very carefully if he is prone to serious depression.

Good luck in the future.

- Susan




BabyNyla -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 2:06:33 AM)

When I dommed I had a set of questions that I always asked up front ... as I like to know everything.  As a sub ... I have only scened with my Dom and we knew all there was to know before we ever met, since we spent a month talking first.  But if I had found out about things, especially health things, after the fact ... I'd be pissed and not disclosing it might be a deal breaker to me.




Vendaval -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 2:27:22 AM)

The timing for mentioning health issues, whether mental or physical,
depends on the type of interaction and how well the parties involved
know each other.  As an example, I have both asthma and allergies,
so everyone is told up front that any smoking has to be outdoors.

If you are in the beginning stages of getting to know someone,
information will likely be revealed gradually, unless you specifically
ask for it.  Before a Scene I always ask about any type of medical
condition, medication, recent illness, etc. 

As far as your specific situation goes, the Dom did tell you
about his specific issues after meeting with you in person and
doing a Scene with you.  It seems likely that he was worried
about possible rejection and felt comfortable talking with you
about these issues only after meeting in person. 
 
How did the Scene go?  Do you like him overall as a person? 
Do wish to keep communicating with him?  Do you want to be
friends only or to pursue a possible Dom/sub relationship? 
These are the questions you need to ask yourself.
 
 
 
 




SusanofO -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 3:22:24 AM)

I really, really do think it's very possible this person has just given up on a medication that doesn't appear to be working well for him. I would urge the OP to queston him further about this possibility, and, if this is indeed the case, to encourage him to find a doctor that will help him in his quest to find the right anti-depressant medication.

Or, he could even just keep switching doctors, in order to try different meds - if he has a stubborn doctor that won't allow him to switch meds, and his current one isn't working (that is what I did, sometimes. I know how this can go, and it can be a real _itch. But, switching doctors worked for me). Good luck.

- Susan




hisannabelle -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 10:43:43 AM)

i'm very up front about this kind of stuff - with anyone. if someone asks, i'll tell them. it's something i've mentioned at the top of my profile simply because it does seem to be such an issue for people. so it's likely that a prospective partner would know pretty early on. now, if i didn't say anything, the only thing that would be likely to come out by itself would be the physical issues i have, simply because i tend to whine every now and then about hurting all over :P most people would not guess that i've been diagnosed with depression, generalized anxiety disorder, and post traumatic stress disorder as well.

that said, as has already been mentioned, for the general population, most of these issues can be controlled through therapy, medication, etc., so being depressed doesn't automatically make you dangerous or incapable of controlling a scene or anything silly like that. uncontrolled, disabling depression is something that i think should be discussed, but still, i can see why people who are very private might want to keep that to themselves unless they're developing a really close relationship with someone. personally, i find that full disclosure up-front is the best policy for me. :)




BreatheinToMe -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 10:55:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyone4you

Last night I was talking with a Dom who I have scened with before.  After having scened with him & having chatting with him for some time, he wound up telling me about a lot of things that I personally felt he should have told me sooner.  Some things were a surprise to learn and other things worried me (ie he is disabled due to depression & has recently stopped taking his meds).  I did convey my surprise & concerns to him about what he told me & that I think he should have told me sooner.

I am curious if anyone else has had this happen.  I have recently read a lot about slaves & subs being bipolar or having depression.  When did you share this with your Dom, Master, or play partners?  If you are a Dom, do you share this sort of information?  If so, when do you do it?


Sexyone..
I would agree with what LuckyAlbatross has stated, but I would also add: Discontinueing to take his medications would not, cause symptoms to appear suddenly in a scene like hives might. Play, would probably raise his endorphine level...:)  think service.

 
But of course, when you talk to him before playing, and something seems off, you always have the opportunity to back out.




MasterC70 -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 11:03:56 AM)

To my knowledge my slave is not bipolar, and I am not.  If one of us were I think it would be prudent to let the other know right at the start.  I have a friend who has bipolar disorder and he recently spent time in hospital because he'd gone off his meds and wasn't taking proper care of himself.  With bdsm I think it would be even more necessary than in a vanilla relationship that such a fact be known.  I don't know how many people who are bipolar become violent to any degree when off their meds, but why take the chance of something happening because you didn't have all the facts.  The first S in S.S.C does stand for safe after all.




SingleRarity -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 12:48:41 PM)

I personally don't suffer from depression or from being bi-polar, but if I did, I think that I would share that information as soon as it was clear that there was the potential for a long term relationship forming. It just seems like the kind of thing you should tell your potential partner upfront before they begin to form an emotional attachment. But I believe in being very open in general.




mnottertail -> RE: When do you mention it? (2/18/2007 12:54:20 PM)

I don't know so much about the profoundly insane, that kinda gives itself up inside a couple sentences, but if you got aids or have ever been a man, that kinda shit you should give up right up front.

It's a human thing.

Dr. Schweitzer




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