RE: honesty about sexual orientation

RE: honesty about sexual orientation (Full Version)

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findmedaddy -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 5:21:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl If I was judging them, I wouldn't be friends with them. Actually, my friends have no problem with my views. When my ex husband's openly gay lover told me the truth, he also told me how wrong he thought it was for my ex husband to tell me he was straight when he was in fact bisexual. He feels the same way I do about honesty. My bisexual female friend labels herself as bisexual even though she is monogamous to her boyfriend because she has engaged in sexual acts with women. She has also engaged in bdsm, but she chooses to go with the mainstream view to prevent any mistakes or misunderstandings. DBG, Don't know if one more comment will matter in the Thread That Ate St. Louis, but for what it is worth, from someone who hasn't commented before: You got hurt by one person who did something dishonest. It really hurts, and I absolutely get that. My first reaction when I get hurt is to try to figure out how to prevent that from happening again. My profile includes, here and there, things I've added to make sure that the same kind of f*ker (no offense, Troll) who hurt me before won't approach me. But the messy thing is that you cannot generalize from the specific of this one relationship. And there is no shield, except for complete solitude, that will protect you from receiving awful surprises from people you love. The next guy who comes into your life may be bisexual and he might not say that upfront, but he still won't be like your husband. He'll be whoever HE is, with HIS baggage and HIS insecurities--and he may be the perfect man for you. What is getting people here upset about your posts is that you keep seeming to say that no matter what their* experience is, yours trumps it, and you are right. But here's the catch: you are right about your life, your experiences, your opinions. They are right about theirs. It's a great big messy world, and if this stuff were as easy as "wear a nametag and hand out a list of your experiences so I can figure out in advance what I hate about you," some of us might be better off. But it just doesn't work that way. Peace.

cjenny -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 5:32:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl If you have no desire to have relations with another woman, why would you go against your own sexual orientation just to please someone else? If I had a fettish for watching two men go at it (which I don't) I would find a bisexual sub. I would be worried that expecting someone to go against their sexual orientation would cause severe psychological damage. That is why the BDSM world is not for you. You can't even imagine wanting to please a dom or master it is all about pleasing yourself. You cannot grasp the actual reality of submission & that is okay. But stop pushing your narrow bigoted views on the rest of us that enjoy pleasing a dom or master even if they are Muslim. What a tragic and fubar'd thread you created from your sad viewpoint, you refuse to consider anything anyone says to you. You simply are not emotionally mature enough for any relationship that falls out of the norm or out of your comfort zone. Saying that you base a lot of your knowledge from Jerry Springer well, it says it all. Save yourself enormous grief dbg and live in the straighter narrower vanilla world, you won't have to always fight. You won't need to worry about soft or hard limits. I'm saying harsh words here only because it seems that little gets through to you. Again... have you considered that you so desperately need safety that you've confused the reality of BDSM? Doms and masters don't coddle. They strengthen us thru their dominance. This is really a most saddening thread to read, the fear, the bigotry, the sheer hatred born of uncertainty & ignorance. Gods.

Emperor1956 -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 8:19:03 AM)
This is the thread that never ends it just goes on and on my friends. Someone started typing here not knowing what it was and they'll continue typing here forever just because This is the thread that never ends... SHOOT ME NOW. PLEASE. E.

porthuronsub -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 8:22:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cjenny What a tragic and fubar'd thread you created Hey, I actually like this thread. I have learned new recipes, what wines go with people, that musicals can change your sexual orientation, that having a dad that likes to watch sports makes you hate your own gender.... DBG, I am actually glad that you stepped back into the thread. You seem to be more accepting of our views this time, even though they still don't match yours, but hey thats cool everyone has their own opinion. I agree that you don't seem to get the whole submission thing. You don't seem to grasp the headspace of wanting to please someone so greatly that you would do nearly (and I said nearly) anything for them. I can't and won't attempt to speak for everyone here, but I think being forced, as it were, to perform acts (and I am not using the word bisexual on purpose) onto the same sex (be it sex or otherwise) is akin to eating broccoli (even if it makes you gag) b/c your master wants you to, to make him happy. We just don't look into as deeply as you apparently are. We don't look at it as having sex with someone of the same sex. We look at it as performing an act to keep our Dom/me happy. Do you understand where I am coming from?

Celeste43 -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 8:29:26 AM)
Sorry cjenny, just because she has bisexual sex as a limit doesn't mean she isn't submissive. It does mean she isn't a 'no limits slave' but she never claimed that she was. There are a lot of male subs who get off majorly at being forced into male on male sex. There are also a lot of female subs who were manipulated into a two female scene and were so repulsed by it that the relationship broke up afterwards because of the fact that the top was more interested in getting his rocks off than keeping his sub safe. Myself, I'm not bi and I'm not poly. But I am submissive to one who himself is not bi and not poly. Doesn't mean he isn't a "twue dominate", it means we are compatable. Oh and I think there isn't much ruder than to force a person to have sex with someone whom they find repulsive for whatever reason. Rude to the person who is emotionally manipulated into doing this and even worse to the third by not telling them ahead of time that the sub will be begging not to have to touch them and is quite likely to start puking the moment things start. There isn't much worse for anyone's self esteem than to know that the other person finds them a total and complete turn off and will be sick at the thought of this event for the rest of their life and that they are only doing it because of threats, coersion and emotional blackmail.

cjenny -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 8:32:44 AM)
Celeste it is not about that limit. It is about her entire outlook and refusal on so many levels. I am by far the only one that has suggested she step back from this lifestyle and take a good hard look at what she really wants.

AquaticSub -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 9:13:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cjenny Celeste it is not about that limit. It is about her entire outlook and refusal on so many levels. I am by far the only one that has suggested she step back from this lifestyle and take a good hard look at what she really wants. I also think she would be served well by stepping back from the lifestyle and undergoing a self-examination. Until she can grasp the concept of doing something for someone else's pleasure, regardless of your feelings for it, I don't think she will be ready to submit. That doesn't mean she should change any of her limits, mind you. I just think she should be more accepting of those with different limits and until she can be, she won't get along well in the BDSM community.

susie -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 9:17:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 Sorry cjenny, just because she has bisexual sex as a limit doesn't mean she isn't submissive. It does mean she isn't a 'no limits slave' but she never claimed that she was. There are a lot of male subs who get off majorly at being forced into male on male sex. There are also a lot of female subs who were manipulated into a two female scene and were so repulsed by it that the relationship broke up afterwards because of the fact that the top was more interested in getting his rocks off than keeping his sub safe. Myself, I'm not bi and I'm not poly. But I am submissive to one who himself is not bi and not poly. Doesn't mean he isn't a "twue dominate", it means we are compatable. Oh and I think there isn't much ruder than to force a person to have sex with someone whom they find repulsive for whatever reason. Rude to the person who is emotionally manipulated into doing this and even worse to the third by not telling them ahead of time that the sub will be begging not to have to touch them and is quite likely to start puking the moment things start. There isn't much worse for anyone's self esteem than to know that the other person finds them a total and complete turn off and will be sick at the thought of this event for the rest of their life and that they are only doing it because of threats, coersion and emotional blackmail. I am certainly with cjenny on this. It has nothing to do with DBG having a limit of no bisexual acts it is her total outlook on the lifestyle, which is clear from other posts as well as this one. As for your comments about force and repulsion don't you think they are strong words to use to describe what has been discussed here. I am one of those that is straight and have no desire to engage in any bi-sexual act, however, if requested (not forced) to do so by my Master I would do so to make him happy. As for your assumption that the other woman would not be fully aware of the situation that she was coming into, I find that naive and insulting. If this were to occur within our relationship the other woman would be chosen with care and would be fully aware of the situation. What point would there be in bringing someone into a scene if they are not going to enjoy their participation? edited because I am having a blonde moment and can't spell.

porthuronsub -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 9:23:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 Sorry cjenny, just because she has bisexual sex as a limit doesn't mean she isn't submissive. It does mean she isn't a 'no limits slave' but she never claimed that she was. There are a lot of male subs who get off majorly at being forced into male on male sex. There are also a lot of female subs who were manipulated into a two female scene and were so repulsed by it that the relationship broke up afterwards because of the fact that the top was more interested in getting his rocks off than keeping his sub safe. Myself, I'm not bi and I'm not poly. But I am submissive to one who himself is not bi and not poly. Doesn't mean he isn't a "twue dominate", it means we are compatable. Oh and I think there isn't much ruder than to force a person to have sex with someone whom they find repulsive for whatever reason. Rude to the person who is emotionally manipulated into doing this and even worse to the third by not telling them ahead of time that the sub will be begging not to have to touch them and is quite likely to start puking the moment things start. There isn't much worse for anyone's self esteem than to know that the other person finds them a total and complete turn off and will be sick at the thought of this event for the rest of their life and that they are only doing it because of threats, coersion and emotional blackmail. I am certainly with cjenny on this. It has nothing to do with DBG having a limit of no bisexual acts it is her total outlook on the lifestyle, which is clear from other posts as well as this one. As for your comments about force and repulsion don't you think they are strong words to use to describe what has been discussed here. I am one of those that is straight and have no desire to engage in any bi-sexual act, however, if requested (not forced) to do so by my Master I would do so to make him happy. As for your assumption that the other woman would not be fully aware of the situation that she was coming into, I find that naive and insulting. If this were to occur within our relationship the other woman would be chosen with care and would be full aware of the situation. What point would there be in bringing someone into a scene if they are not going to enjoy their participation? That may even be a turn on for the third, knowing that the sub/slave hating doing it and was being "forced" to do it.

beltainefaerie -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 10:41:28 AM)
I also think there is a huge difference between sex acts due to submission and actual sexual orientation. I am bi. I have been in relationships with women and men. To suggest that a sex act makes one bisexual is like saying that people who have sex with lots of different people are polyamorus. Bisexuality is about orientation. I love sex and relationships with men and women, so I am bisexual. If I happened to drunkenly experiment with another girl, that would only make me bisexual if I liked it. If I was bi, I'd probably want to do it again. If I wasn't, it would just be an experience I had. Similarly, if I had sex with a girl because my master ordered it, again, I would only be bisexual if I liked it. If I didn't like it, I would not want to do it again. Note, I say WANT to. People that did not like it and did not desire to do it again, might still do it if it was ordered by their master. To lump every person who has ever had a bisexual encounter into the orienation label "bisexual" is really rather irritating. In your estimation it seems to put my 2 year relationship on par with someone's one night stand that they didn't even enjoy. That is just too weird. That said, I also think it is important to talk about sexual history before being with a person. If there are things that bother you in that history, talk it out, or don't play with that person. That doesn't mean they should change what they are posting in the world as their orientation, but it does mean hat you can choose to ask specific questions to get what you need and therefore not be hurt as you were in your other relationship.

cjenny -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 11:04:53 AM)
Thanks to TPAM. Edit: Oops, that is a plural TPAM.

BDSM05478 -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 11:28:16 AM)
Hetero people (and vanilla) have sex all the time with others of the opposite sex that they "normally" would have anything to do with and maybe even repulsed by. Just to put that into perspective.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 12:08:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 Sorry cjenny, just because she has bisexual sex as a limit doesn't mean she isn't submissive. It does mean she isn't a 'no limits slave' but she never claimed that she was. thank you There are a lot of male subs who get off majorly at being forced into male on male sex. There are also a lot of female subs who were manipulated into a two female scene and were so repulsed by it that the relationship broke up afterwards because of the fact that the top was more interested in getting his rocks off than keeping his sub safe. The ones who get off majorly at being consentually forced into male on male sex are bisexual because if they weren't, they wouldn't get off on it. Get off majorly = sexual desire. These are the ones I accuse of lying when they say they are straight. Myself, I'm not bi and I'm not poly. But I am submissive to one who himself is not bi and not poly. Doesn't mean he isn't a "twue dominate", it means we are compatable. Oh and I think there isn't much ruder than to force a person to have sex with someone whom they find repulsive for whatever reason. Rude to the person who is emotionally manipulated into doing this and even worse to the third by not telling them ahead of time that the sub will be begging not to have to touch them and is quite likely to start puking the moment things start. I feel the same way. There isn't much worse for anyone's self esteem than to know that the other person finds them a total and complete turn off and will be sick at the thought of this event for the rest of their life and that they are only doing it because of threats, coersion and emotional blackmail. that's why I could never do that to anyone

AquaticSub -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 12:48:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 Sorry cjenny, just because she has bisexual sex as a limit doesn't mean she isn't submissive. It does mean she isn't a 'no limits slave' but she never claimed that she was. thank you I don't think anyone is actually say you aren't a submissive because you aren't bisexual. We are just saying you don't yet understand submission because you can't grasp the idea of doing something for your dominant that you don't want to do. quote: There are a lot of male subs who get off majorly at being forced into male on male sex. There are also a lot of female subs who were manipulated into a two female scene and were so repulsed by it that the relationship broke up afterwards because of the fact that the top was more interested in getting his rocks off than keeping his sub safe. The ones who get off majorly at being consentually forced into male on male sex are bisexual because if they weren't, they wouldn't get off on it. Get off majorly = sexual desire. These are the ones I accuse of lying when they say they are straight. That's good to know. You should have made that clear before we got to... how many pages are we on now? quote: Myself, I'm not bi and I'm not poly. But I am submissive to one who himself is not bi and not poly. Doesn't mean he isn't a "twue dominate", it means we are compatable. Oh and I think there isn't much ruder than to force a person to have sex with someone whom they find repulsive for whatever reason. Rude to the person who is emotionally manipulated into doing this and even worse to the third by not telling them ahead of time that the sub will be begging not to have to touch them and is quite likely to start puking the moment things start. I feel the same way. I can't remember anyone saying you should force someone into a non-consent situation. All we've said is that straight people may indeed have sex with the same gender to please their master. quote: There isn't much worse for anyone's self esteem than to know that the other person finds them a total and complete turn off and will be sick at the thought of this event for the rest of their life and that they are only doing it because of threats, coersion and emotional blackmail. that's why I could never do that to anyone Repeat: I can't remember anyone saying you should force someone into a non-consent situation. All we've said is that straight people may indeed have sex with the same gender to please their master. A straight person having sex with someone of the same gender does not mean they were forced into it. They may have been, but it does not prove anything. If you don't want your sub to do it, great for you. But the line of thinking that "any straight sub who has sex with the same gender was obviously forced" is clearly faulty.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 1:17:57 PM)
I guess I just feel differently about BDSM than some. I think of it as something both people enjoy all aspects of......unless they are being punished of course. I don't see how someone ordering another to go against their sexual preference wouldn't take the fun out of it. That's probably why I have such a hard time understanding it. I also think I got my definition of straight from others around me. Most people don't learn all their definitions from a dictionary.......they just use them to look up words they have never heard a meaning for. I was born in Kansas, raised in Kansas and have never lived anywhere other than Kansas. I learned from my environment.......the people I've been around throughout my life......that sexual orientation referred to both desire and acts.

cjenny -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 1:25:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I guess I just feel differently about BDSM than some. I think of it as something both people enjoy all aspects of......unless they are being punished of course. I don't see how someone ordering another to go against their sexual preference wouldn't take the fun out of it. That's probably why I have such a hard time understanding it. I also think I got my definition of straight from others around me. Most people don't learn all their definitions from a dictionary.......they just use them to look up words they have never heard a meaning for. I was born in Kansas, raised in Kansas and have never lived anywhere other than Kansas. I learned from my environment.......the people I've been around throughout my life......that sexual orientation referred to both desire and acts. hugs dbg. You just grew a bit. Honest, you really did.

susie -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 1:25:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I guess I just feel differently about BDSM than some. I think of it as something both people enjoy all aspects of......unless they are being punished of course. I don't see how someone ordering another to go against their sexual preference wouldn't take the fun out of it. That's probably why I have such a hard time understanding it. I also think I got my definition of straight from others around me. Most people don't learn all their definitions from a dictionary.......they just use them to look up words they have never heard a meaning for. I was born in Kansas, raised in Kansas and have never lived anywhere other than Kansas. I learned from my environment.......the people I've been around throughout my life......that sexual orientation referred to both desire and acts. So you have still not understood what has been said here. Some submissives, including me, get their enjoyment from pleasing their Master/Mistress etc. I love doing things that make him happy. I do not like pain at all but I accept it because I love that it makes him happy and I love the look on his face when he beats me etc. Agreeing to participate in a scene with another woman is exactly the same. True I have no interest in women in just the same way that I do not enjoy pain. I do it to please him and that is the bit that I enjoy. Perhaps now you will understand why some of us think that you need to think carefully about the sort of relationship you are looking for and perhaps steer towards a vanilla type relationship with kink thrown in rather than a Dom/submissive one.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 1:26:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I don't see how someone ordering another to go against their sexual preference wouldn't take the fun out of it. There are different levels of pleasure. Why would I stay at home studying every night, when I could be out at parties? The long term fulfillment and goal seeking I reach makes the short term sacrifice worth it. And personally, for me, I get turned on by humiliation and objectification. So being used as nothing more than a warm non-battery operated sex toy with someone I have no desire to be with but will endure for the pleasure of my owner DOES get me really excited and fulfilled on a certain level. It's fine not to understand HOW a person enjoys it and gains fulfillment from a situation. As long as you accept that they DO, that it works for them and it's perfectly fine.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 1:37:24 PM)
Actually, I'm looking for a combination of both vanilla and d/s. Seriously though........I've been asking alot of people I know if they would consider someone who engaged in same sex acts to please another bisexual and so far they have all told me they would. Wanted to find out if I was wrong and they said I was right. I really think it's where I'm from rather than a case of stupidity on my part.

susie -> RE: honesty about sexual orientation (2/22/2007 1:48:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Actually, I'm looking for a combination of both vanilla and d/s. Seriously though........I've been asking alot of people I know if they would consider someone who engaged in same sex acts to please another bisexual and so far they have all told me they would. Wanted to find out if I was wrong and they said I was right. I really think it's where I'm from rather than a case of stupidity on my part. And were these people that you asked lifestyle people? Do they understand D/s relationships? Or were these local, down at the market or the drug store people?

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