RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands?

RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (Full Version)

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agirl -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 10:18:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDominic agirl "Basically someone is trustworthy when YOU think they are." I couldn't disagree more. Indeed this is the most significant basis for my concern. A person is not automatically trustworthy just because someone decides they are. It depends on the good judgement of the person making that decision to trust. Some choose wisely, many others do not. Namaste, Sir Dominic I didn't say that it MAKES a person trustworthy. My point is that people trust where they may........... it may be mistaken or it may be well-placed, either way..........if you trust them, you do. agirl

BitaTruble -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 10:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDominic You yourself put your opinions in doubt by fluffing off DarkDreams question about your Master telling you to murder someone. I don't recall offering any opinions. I'll have to go back and reread what I wrote because I could have sworn I stuck to the facts of my own life and how I came to put my life and well-being in the hands of someone else. When they are facts, they are beyond doubt as facts are true and objective and opinions are subjective and formed without the knowledge required to make them facts or to discount them as falsehoods. Hence, the reason they are called opinions! Now, if you want to call me a liar (and you are perfectly within your right to form such an opinion), that's one thing, but calling the facts of my life opinions is inaccurate. quote: Let's tone it down and simply say what if he asked you to do something illegal that could end up with a jail sentence if caught. Your ducking this question does not serve your argument well. (Gets distracted just a moment by her long time prison fantasy.. wipes drool, then continues on) It's another hypothetical and I already spoke on that issue. As soon as you (anyone) wants to deal with history or facts, rather than future or fantasy, I'll be all over it. Laws don't prevent crime, they only provide for consequences so as to try to deter crime. I'm willing to accept the consequences of my own actions and when I do something, even when I do something on command, I'm still the one who is responsible for them. Do you ever choose to break the law? Speed? Tailgate? Make too much noise after 10:00 PM and disturb your neighbors? Strike another person? Engage in a little torture, maybe? All illegal and I'd bet dollars to donuts that there are a lot of posters on this forum who break at least some of those laws some of the time. I know I do and some of those could land me in jail. Sometimes I've had to suffer consequnces for my law breaking, sometimes I haven't, but I'm always willing to suffer those consequences when I've taken the risk. quote: It's not, would he ever actually ask such a thing, the question is what would you do if he did ask it of you. Yes it is a hypothetical; that does not make it an invalid question. I do think it's invalid, so I suppose we will actually have to end up agreeing to disagree. [;)] Past history is a much better way to determine probable actions in the future but no one ever asks about that because it doesn't tittilate the audience as much as the fun of chopping off body parts with chain saws. ::chuckles:: Damn Nielson ratings have ruined BDSM. I blame it all on the media. quote: What I guess this boils down to for me is what often happens when a generalization is made on these forums. There are always some who will say it isn't true for them, hence the generalization is false. That does not follow. There will always be exceptions to the rule. It doesn't make the generalization false overall. I agree and I do try to avoid making generalizations by speaking to my own experiences and, when I'm interested, engaging individuals one on one. quote: p.s. You don't have to agree for us to agree to disagree. I say that as a joke! Himself did stand-up comedy while he was in college for extra cash. If you heard some of his jokes, you would know that cutting off my body parts with a chain saw would be much less painful than listening to his schtick. All I can say is that it's most excellent that I'm a masochist! ::chuckles:: Celeste

agirl -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 11:40:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDominic Julia, I dont think it is as simple as that. I do agree that many people make mistakes because they trust others to tell them what to do instead of trusting their instincts. But just as often a person's own instincts are skewed, whether it be from past emotional (or physical) injuries, or simply because they never learned to choose well. Look at all the books addressing the issue of why smart women choose jerks for mates. More times than not it is the woman's decision making capabilities that are impaired. Society has taught them to make choices on the wrong criteria; their gut instincts are their worst enemy (at least in this aspect of their lives). Whether or not to trust your inner voices can be tricky, depending on who you are. Namaste, Sir Dominic Whether that's the case or not, and no matter how skewed or unhelpful your inner voice is..............people will trust when they think they can. You can be as trustworthy as they come and still not garner someone else's trust in you. It's only when THEY think you're trustworthy not necessarily because you merit it. agirl

DarkDreams123 -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 8:13:51 PM)
Hi BitaTruble: I won't respond to your post as I think that SirDominic pretty much covers it. Thank you for your positive attitude, though. Hi JuliaOceania: quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You know I have not read of many examples of slaves murdering for their masters, although women in rare instances will do such things.. I find it rather troubling this is always the first and only example thrown out there. I guess you have heard many other arguments about slaves committing murder. Sorry to be so tiresome. I was not using the Manson case in order to cast aspersions on slaves in general. I was using the reasoning technique called "Taking Something to a Logical Conclusion". This is a perfectly useful technique to see if a line of reasoning holds true under all circumstances. Surely murder is the extreme in human behavior and so represents the logical conclusion to the line of reasoning that we are debating. -Dark Dreams

DarkDreams123 -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 8:22:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie I think you missed the part where she said every question was asked before becoming his slave, and I would venture to guess such questions included things like whether or not he's an advocate of using slaves to murder people. I know I included that in the questions I asked my own Master. This is why for those of us who see slavery as absolute submission in all things, it is imperitive to choose wisely who we give ourselves to. Hi OwnedGirlie, You are saying that you anticipated every possible situation that you and your Master might get into? No need to continue to use your brain after you made your decision to trust your Master? Is life for you so static? -Dark Dreams

juliaoceania -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 8:23:39 PM)
Yes, we could talk about how parental authority could lead to the same situation, or how a wife could be brainwashed into committing crimes. I really do not see your point of focusing on slaves, and talking about how vulnerable they are to being convinced to commit murder. I suppose you might be able to find a case of it in the world, but I have never heard of one

ownedgirlie -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 8:26:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123 quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie I think you missed the part where she said every question was asked before becoming his slave, and I would venture to guess such questions included things like whether or not he's an advocate of using slaves to murder people. I know I included that in the questions I asked my own Master. This is why for those of us who see slavery as absolute submission in all things, it is imperitive to choose wisely who we give ourselves to. Hi OwnedGirlie, You are saying that you anticipated every possible situation that you and your Master might get into? No need to continue to use your brain after you made your decision to trust your Master? Is life for you so static? -Dark Dreams I was referring to BitaTruble's post. Perhaps you might direct your static question to her. I, however, asked every possible question I could think of, and there were a lot. By then I had a good enough idea of how he would run me where I was comfortable to hand myself completely over. Lord knows he runs me better than I did. And if you knew me and what my life was filled with you would understand just how hysterical your static question is. But I would ask in return, why the hostility?

juliaoceania -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 8:34:50 PM)
quote: why the hostility? I was wondering this as well

DarkDreams123 -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 9:09:02 PM)
Hi OwnedGirlie, I'm sorry if I came off as hostile. I did not intend it so. If I challenge what you are saying am I being hostile? Isn't this a debate? -Dark Dreams

DarkDreams123 -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 9:13:14 PM)
Hi JuliaOceania: I really think you are missing the point of what I am saying. I AM NOT KNOCKING SLAVES. I really don't understand why you are taking issue with me when I am trying to make a point about personal safety. You were the one who was responding to aSlavesLife about personal safety because he was calling you a safety Nazi (post #36 in reply to aSlavesLife). quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You have repeatedly lambasted those who do not approve of restraining people that are left alone, and other activities. ... Why does it make me a "nazi" to say I do not feel safe and it is not acceptable to tie me up all day alone? I have read your profile and the saftey mechanisms that you sugggest, and to be frank with you it would not work for me. My Daddy has better things to do with me than that anyways (our opinion). Why does it matter that you cannot sway others from their opinions? I have a lot of opinions I will not be swayed from, that does not make me a Nazi.. I will reiterate, everyone in your house "consents", I could give a rat's ass.... and I doubt that those who you are trying to sway really care either. ... Why does it bother you so much that people set up measures to try to be safe? I do not get you at all.. it is just weird. It seems you have the problem with people that want to be safe, not the other way around. Why does it matter a hill of beans to you that others set up measures for saftey... and btw, as long as they have not killed anyone, I do not possibly see why you feel the need to shoot them down. Like I said, you are the one that is trying to dictate to others how they should play, not the other way around from what I have seen. Play anyway you like with your consenting property. (edited for space) I am really agreeing with you! You should also re-read post #41 by daddysprop247. quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 ... above, you imply that a Dominant who would leave a bound submissive alone is irresponsible and uncaring. i think that is the sort of thing aSlavesLife was referring to, about "safety nazis." there is nothing wrong with people deciding that they are going to take certain overt safety precautions, or even with demanding that such precautions be taken if you are an unowned submissive. the problem arises when these people negatively label and judge those who do not follow the same precautions (and often assume no precautions are taken at all). my Master has left me alone, bound, blindfolded, gagged, several times, the longest for about an hour i think (hard to say because i tend to zone out at those times). i suppose the house could have burned down. or more likely, i could have choked choked to death on the gag, maybe drowned in my own vomit, who knows. so yes, there are real risks. not highly probable, but possible. however my Master is far from uncaring, ... (edited for space and emphasis mine) SirDominic and I were responding to this situation and offering our opinions that this is a very unsafe practice, in general. Now, can we "shake hands" and be friends? -Dark Dreams

SusanofO -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 9:13:36 PM)
She's might be an INTJ on the Myers-Briggs (really). I am an INFJ and am often seen as the flip side of the coin: "Too emotional."... - Susan

ownedgirlie -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 9:22:59 PM)
Dark Dreams: I've always found the most productive debates to occur when its parties avoid criticizing each other personally. Calling a person "static" and assuming he/she no longer uses his/her brain no longer speaks to the subject; rather it appears to be a manipulative tactic for the purpose of putting the person on the defensive. Had you asked something to the effect of, "Where is the line drawn between when you engage in your own thinking versus his?" or "Do you find this creates a static life, and if not, how do you avoid that?" would seem to be a more productive way of learning your opponent. Hostility tends to give the impression of ignorance, or of an unfounded argument. However, I do accept your gracious apology.

juliaoceania -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 9:37:25 PM)
I am not one to think I know what anyone experiences inside their relationships or if they are healthy or not, and I do not think you do either. My views are entirely consistent... basically if people are happy and consenting I do not have much to say about it...I think it is hubris to judge other people for what they consensually do. Now I am not comfortable with what everyone does, and guess what? I do not have to be.

DarkDreams123 -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 10:14:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I am not one to think I know what anyone experiences inside their relationships or if they are healthy or not, and I do not think you do either. My views are entirely consistent... basically if people are happy and consenting I do not have much to say about it...I think it is hubris to judge other people for what they consensually do. Now I am not comfortable with what everyone does, and guess what? I do not have to be. As to your consistency: in your reply to aSlavesLife you didn't have any difficulty offering up your opinion about his practices with his slave. post #25 in response to aSlavesLife quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania ... You know I do not think I have ever addressed how you treat your slave. I have read your profile and found it slightly interesting, but your attitude toward people who prize being as safe as possible is sort of perplexing. If your slave consents to being put in dangerous situations that most of us would find questionable in our own lives.. well that is her choice, she consented, and personally I do not give a rat's ass as long as everyone consents. I am not a nazi because I think that people should have informed consent of what will be required of them as a submissive/slave. If some dominant was courting me and said "I will tie you up while I work all day and leave you alone", well I would know that he was not for me. I am not into the acronyms of RACK or SSC to describe the world. One person's SSC is another person's edge. I will say though that you seem to bash people far more than I have ever seen them bash you. You are extremely combative, judgmental, you generalize quite a bit, and frankly if you are so secure with what you do I wonder why our opinions matter a whit. You are in our faces, daring us to judge you... when in fact perhaps a handful of contributors on this board even have paid attention to how "extreme" you are. Where do you get the idea that I am judging anyone? I am not saying anything about a person but about their behavior. I thought this was a forum for expressing one's opinions?

juliaoceania -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/22/2007 10:51:29 PM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania ... You know I do not think I have ever addressed how you treat your slave. I have read your profile and found it slightly interesting, but your attitude toward people who prize being as safe as possible is sort of perplexing. If your slave consents to being put in dangerous situations that most of us would find questionable in our own lives.. well that is her choice, she consented, and personally I do not give a rat's ass as long as everyone consents. I am not a nazi because I think that people should have informed consent of what will be required of them as a submissive/slave. If some dominant was courting me and said "I will tie you up while I work all day and leave you alone", well I would know that he was not for me. I am not into the acronyms of RACK or SSC to describe the world. One person's SSC is another person's edge. I will say though that you seem to bash people far more than I have ever seen them bash you. You are extremely combative, judgmental, you generalize quite a bit, and frankly if you are so secure with what you do I wonder why our opinions matter a whit. You are in our faces, daring us to judge you... when in fact perhaps a handful of contributors on this board even have paid attention to how "extreme" you are. Different emphasis, completely consistent... For me his way would not work, but for him it does, I do not care because he is happy and all are consenting.. It does not have to work for me, and that was my point... nice try to skew my words, but you failed.

SirDominic -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/23/2007 11:29:51 AM)
Bita, nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. Differences of opinion is what makes the world go round. But you really DO need to get that long time prison fantasy out of your head. There is a time and place for everything, but drooling all over your keyboard is a really, really bad idea! Namaste, Sir Dominic

ncmaster75 -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/25/2007 11:57:31 PM)
I think that you have to ask yourself, is this person an improvement to my life? and if not.....keep lookin!! that goes for all relationships. Do they really want to improve me?

Sinergy -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/26/2007 4:20:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDominic Look at all the books addressing the issue of why smart women choose jerks for mates. More times than not it is the woman's decision making capabilities that are impaired. Society has taught them to make choices on the wrong criteria; their gut instincts are their worst enemy (at least in this aspect of their lives). Hello A/all, While I agree there is a lot of truth in this statement, I would posit that the issue also deals with one's upbringing. The limbic system tends to imprint under adrenalin. A child that is raised in a house filled with sturm and drang gets accustomed to having the brain chemistry caused by a house full of sturm and drang. 20 years later, this person goes through relationships seeking the brain chemistry they are used to; more sturm and drang. I left my ex-wife because my childhood was relatively calm and peaceful (latchkey kid) and my ex-wife's childhood was (according to her) filled with screaming and drama episodes of her mother. So what ended up happening was she attempted to create the same sort of conditions in our marraige. I went through a few relationships after leaving her which seemed oddly similar. So I took over a year off from dating while I reevaluated what I wanted in a relationship. Sinergy

Vendaval -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/26/2007 5:44:04 AM)
Hello Susan, I cannot give you a really specific example here without more details, there are too many variables in the questions. But for the sake of the discussion I would say that you have to determine the level of risk involved in an activity, whether that be in everyday life or in a Scene. Some examples being - 1. Riding in a car with another driver 2. Letting a friend borrow your car 3. Flying in a commercial airplane 4. Flying in small plane with a bush pilot 5. Going to a doctor for a check-up 6. Going to the hospital for surgery 7. Doing a rope bondage Scene where you are tied to a Saint Andrew's Cross 8. Doing a rope bondage Scene where you are suspended from the ceiling 9. Doing a role-playing Scene of teacher and naughty school boy/girl 10. Doing a rape Scene with kidnapping and knives What to look for on an intellectual level - Sane, sober, responsbile, reliable, experienced and educated What you should never ignore - Any warning signs from your inner alarm system, i.e. your intuition Hope this helps answer part of your questions. Vendaval

SusanofO -> RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your life in their hands? (2/26/2007 9:14:39 AM)
Thanks for the replies, people (Vendeval, that was a good point and thanks). I do trust my Daddy (I really do). He has tons of experience. However, we have not met in person yet (and will in mid-March, for the first time), and it never hurts to be cautious, IMO. I also thought this thread might be helpful to some new-comers. - Susan

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