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RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 4:02:14 PM

lighthearted

Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I feel kinda bad for the guy who tries to do something to my daughter.

I have seen her fight...

Sinergy

p.s. on a related note, sexual predators look for certain non-verbal and physical cues to determine who would be a good target. My kid exhibits none of them.

if you have a link as to where to find the "cues" you mentioned above, I'd love to have it. I'm sure others would too. if not, then perhaps a brief rundown of what they are so I can teach my UMs...

_____________________________

"Thou art to me a delicious torment." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 41

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 4:04:41 PM

SusanofO

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I think what Stephann and others mention really does pose a problem. Because actually, I think Stephann is right in many ways. Society doesn't broadcast the names of murderers or burglars on a list on a local website, if they've already been to prison and done their time, regardless of the fact they are at risk to re-offend (although for anyone who is really interested, it might not be too hard to find out if one of your neighbors had a prison record for something besides a sexual offense, especially a felony - it's a matter of public record, as far as I know).

But, if say, pedophiles (who are usually at a very high risk of re-offending) are going to live in areas where lots of children live, then most people, it seems, want to know they're there - especially, perhaps, if they have kids.

It is kind of sad (IMO) that more people don't seem to understand that most pedophiles are simply re-enacting what was done to themselves as a child - it's a horrible way, I imagine, to live. But - their pedophilia (in action) is against the law, and needless to say, it can screw up their victims for a lifetime.

And there are programs that will help them try very hard to stop this behavior, and even drugs they can take to help them stop - if they want to do that. Their crimes aren't crimes against property, they are crimes against people. But so are murders. I personally have no idea why, but pedophilia seems to really stick in the craw of most people I know - moreso than a lot of other crimes.

Maybe it is because their victims are so innocent and defenseless. I had the same gut-level reaction to the nursing home administrators in New Orleans who supposedly just let old people die, instead of trying to move them to higher ground, when Hurricane Katrina hit, so that reaction isn't limited to pedophiles. I thought they should be hanged from the highest tree.

As far as rapists go, I have no problem with them being prosecuted (at all), and sorta wish their names were published in a public venue. I will admit however, that is probably a personal predjudice because I was once raped. Because I don't feel the same way about, say, burglars (but I've never been burglarized, either).

I do think people need to be given a chance to prove they've changed. And with a pedophile, that is probably really difficult - some or most of them (I've read) tend to socially isolate sometimes from adults (except maybe at work), although that might be a generalization. I'd think the stress alone of being a convicted pedophile might just be really really horrible. On the other hand, maybe some of them don't care at all about what they are doing to kids. But I've seen interviews with some who just feel awful about it - it's incredibly compulsive behavior.

Not that it's anyone else's fault - people are in charge of their own behavior. I'm not excusing their behavior, just saying..."There but for the grace of God, go I" - something to think about, anyway. Although I might well feel differently if one attacked my neices or nephew.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 4:45:26 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)

Post #: 42

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 4:05:51 PM

cjenny

Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

You gotta start at the beginning, it becomes clear then.

Stephan

Aw jeez I'm busted, it is your posts I couldn't figure out! Heeheehee. I couldn't figure out the 'layering' or however it is phrased.
How come my font just changed over to your font btw?

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.

~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 43

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 4:10:04 PM

Aileen68

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That's nice that you think all of that. They can live next door to you then.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 44

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 4:23:20 PM

SusanofO

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I was a criminal justice major for over a year in college, and I did read a lot about what usually makes a person a pedophile (but I don't profess to be an expert.) I also think my post made it pretty clear I am not excusing their behavior. I don't have kids. If I did, I might feel differently (possibly, or maybe probably). I definitely would if one of them attacked a child I was close to, like my nieces or nephew.

But, my point was - do people stop to think really, about why we do have laws that allow the publishing of the names of pedophiles when they move into a neighborhood, and not, say, the names of murderers or grand larceny robbers? I think it's simply a matter of what has been legislated, and it's that simple. I do think it might be a deterrent to some people as far as trying to stop their criminal behavior - but the stats I've read on pedophilia say differently - it's incredibly compulsive behavior, usually.

Next year, if somebody famous is murdered in a cafe' at midnight, there could well be a proposed law keeping all convicted murderers out of cafe's in certain areas, after 10pm or something. Legalities aside - because banishing people from some areas of the country wasn't legal either - until my city proposed a law against it - maybe next year, it will be legal.

My point isn't that I need muderers to eat with me in cafe's at night - it's that passing a law, and the publicity, the time and the sometimes financial acumen needed to get that accomplished, is all that stands between you, and losing some of your more well-known civil liberties.

I don't particularly want to live next door to convicted pedophiles or murderers - but it's a societal quandary - because they do have to live somewhere, and there are some strong arguments against eroding their civil liberties, after they've done prison time and completed their sentences.

**I also want to make it clear I am in no way criticizing the OP for publishing the list she did - because I do want to know if someone like that is living in my neighborhood, for my own protecton. I just am not going out of my way to persecute them if they do live there.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 4:49:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)

Post #: 45

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 4:58:52 PM

Aileen68

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I'm flawed in that I don't have the ability to empathize with the criminal. I tend to be able to only feel from the viewpoint of victims and how their lives are completely destroyed because of anothers actions and choices. Criminals choose to commit crimes. They choose to stop taking medication. They choose to not get help. They choose to ignore help. A victim doesn't have that luxury.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 46

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 5:05:06 PM

SusanofO

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Well, IMO, pedophilic behavior is a cyclical thing - in the beginning, most pedophiles had no choice either (almost all of them, from what I've read, have been molested as children). And in my mind, knowing this makes me feel that "two wrongs don't make a right", as far as people out-right persecuting them. I think they are sick folks, and I think they definitely need help (and yes, they are breaking the law, so they will be incarcerated, most likely, if caught. That's fine with me, too). People want to keep them away from their kids, and understandably so.

But, I think it's worth noting that there do exist people who really do want to stop this behavior, and find that incredibly difficult, and (from what I've read and heard) it almost destroys them emotionally that they know what they are doing is destroying someone else - especially a child, especially if they are in therapy for it and have a relapse - because by then they've been made very aware of what it does to the victim. I very much feel for the victims, too.

No matter how people feel about it personally, it really is (IMO) a civil liberties issue, aside from being a criminal issue. I'm not going to pit myself in some either-or argument, because I think that just makes the entire thread a whole lot less interesting to read, and I really do see this, as a multi-facted issue.

I think it pretty much goes without saying that the victims are innocent and are victims, and the criminals are breaking the law.

My POV isn't, btw, the same thing as me believing all pedophiles should be set free to roam the streets and maraud innocent children, if that is what anyone is going to see in what I write.

This can be very emotion-provoking topic, and I am trying to have a multi-facted discussion, and I obviously have an idiosyncratic POV here.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 6:00:11 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)

Post #: 47

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 5:39:23 PM

popeye1250

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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Ive heard that pedophiles can "never" be cured so I think that that requires special circumstances.
Perhaps make a city in the Nevada or Utah desert where they can live a "normal" life with other pedophiles but can never get out of.
Look at Leper colonies, they don't exactly take them out on field trips.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 48

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 5:47:42 PM

SusanofO

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If that's true (and there is plenty of research that says it is, but it's still being debated by people who know a lot more than I do), there is always Depo-provera (sp? the drug that inhibits sexual response) - that can help tremendously, I've read - but it's not fool-proof.

And I've read that some pedophiles voluntarily take it, because they realize they are destroying children - that is, if it's not already being thrust upon them in the course of their treatment.

I am sure a lot of them don't do that, but some do. And even if they don't volunteer, that is a treatment option for them. As far as civil liberites issues go, some would see that as a violation (so do I, to a definite degree) - but if all other remedies are exhausted, I see it as a viable option, because some sort of practical solution might needs to be put in place, I think.

At least then they'd still get to live in society with most of the rest of society (if that's what they want, and what society decides it wants) - although what you mentioned as a solution might work very well (but it really toys with civil liberties, too, IMO). Of course so does taking away someone's sex drive, so it's a coin toss, I guess.

It's a complex issue, IMO.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 6:06:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 49

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 6:02:06 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lighthearted

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I feel kinda bad for the guy who tries to do something to my daughter.

I have seen her fight...

Sinergy

p.s. on a related note, sexual predators look for certain non-verbal and physical cues to determine who would be a good target. My kid exhibits none of them.

if you have a link as to where to find the "cues" you mentioned above, I'd love to have it. I'm sure others would too. if not, then perhaps a brief rundown of what they are so I can teach my UMs...

A good place to start is the book "The Gift Of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. Susan Brownmiller in her work "Men, Women, and Rape," cites a few studies on what men who assault women look for as far as cues.

I will post the sources for kids when I get the bibliographical information about them.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to lighthearted)

Post #: 50

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 6:38:23 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

But, my point was - do people stop to think really, about why we do have laws that allow the publishing of the names of pedophiles when they move into a neighborhood, and not, say, the names of murderers or grand larceny robbers? I think it's simply a matter of what has been legislated, and it's that simple. I do think it might be a deterrent to some people as far as trying to stop their criminal behavior - but the stats I've read on pedophilia say differently - it's incredibly compulsive behavior, usually.

It is a different form of crime, SusanofO, than murder or burglary or whatever.

The recidivism rate for offenders of sex crimes is close to 100%. It is not a case of whether they will rape / molest again, the question is when. That is why the courts generally force them to go around their neighborhood and tell everybody they are a sex offender. The only real treatment for it is castration.

But one gets in to the whole cruel and unusual debate, as well as the legal standard that one can be rehabilitated by doing time in the Big House, when one starts to discuss castration as a form of treatment.

I tend to suspect my opinion of the subject and solutions to the problem as being overly jaded, so I usually keep them to myself. But then my job requires that I get to glimpse into the hell behind the eyes of too many women where some sick fuck has stolen a part of her soul.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 51

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 6:59:40 PM

SusanofO

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I know the recidivism rate (especially for pedophilia) is incredibly high, Sinergy. For rape it can be, too. I am not sure what the solution is - I can see why people want to know if these types of folks are living in their neighborhoods.

I think there should be some way to more closely monitor who (among the convicted offenders) is really trying to change (maybe a minority), and who is just going to not give a damn, and go right back out and re-offend. Castration may be the real answer, but anyone is going to have one hell of a time getting that past the ACLU (I am guesssing).

But it would cost more money, probably, for very tight monitoring of these folks - and my observaton is that (especially in Nebraksa, it seems), the same people who will scream about raised taxes are the first ones screaming when "the government" hasn't done something to better insure their safety.

Maybe the best thing to do is to take a martial arts class (!)

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 7:12:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 52

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 7:09:37 PM

Aileen68

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Joined: 8/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Maybe the best thing to do is to take a martial arts class (!)

- Susan

Or keep them in jail.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 53

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 7:11:58 PM

SusanofO

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Well, maybe the geographc re-location idea isn't a bad one. I mean they all live with eachother in the same place, away from any children.

Personally, I've always liked the idea of victim's compensation courts for people like robbers, and maybe it would work for rapists and pedophiles as well (if anyone can ever agree on "what it's worth", etc).

I know this is off-topic, but if Ken Lay wasn't dead, I would just have loved seeing him forced to pay back every red cent of money he ripped off from his employees' retirement stocks at Enron. Money doesn't buy happiness, but it sure can take the edge of someone's misery (or pay for their years of necessitated therapy, in the case of rape and molestation victims who are vicitmized by repeat offenders who are not taking the "rehab" idea seriously).

Financial implications have a way of really hitting many people where they live, so to speak. Of course one cannot squeeze blood from a stone if the perpetrators are unemployed, and it can turn into a bureaucratic nightmare (look at child support collection processes, in most states). But it could work, if properly administrated.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 7:20:24 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)

Post #: 54

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 7:13:34 PM

deadbluebird

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Joined: 1/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

At least then they'd still get to live in society with most of the rest of society (if that's what they want, and what society decides it wants) - although what you mentioned as a solution might work very well (but it really toys with civil liberties, too, IMO). Of course so does taking away someone's sex drive, so it's a coin toss, I guess.

It's a complex issue, IMO.

- Susan

Once a person has made the decision to sexually assult a child i dont think they should get to live in society. If they are still welcome to live in society then perhaps their sex drive should be taken away. I don't understand why someone should have any civil liberties once they have committed such a crime.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 55

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 7:15:01 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Susan, I don't know about their "civil rights" but this particular type of criminal (Pedophile) just cannot be medically cured.
Depro-provera "may" work on some but only if they take it.
If someone is diagnosed as a child molestor I'd say "off to the farm" with them!
"You like skiing?" "Yes."
"Good you're going to the mountains of eastern Nevada to the roach hotel where they don't check out!"
Damn, how I long for the good ol' days; "Someone get a rope!"

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 56

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 7:27:03 PM

SusanofO

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deadbluebird: There are two reasons we have a criminal justice system, and they are forever at odds with eachother, in most people's minds, and probably as far as implementation of "solutions" as well. One is for retribution (punishment). The other is for rehabilitation. Since pedophiles cannot (or so most conclude) be rehabilitated some assume the only other choice is that they must be forever punished, instead.

This makes some sense to me, but not really. I think there is a statute of limitations on almost ever crime (except murder).

There is no real way to measure which victims will forever be scarred, as opposed to the ones who are more resilient and go on to lead happy, productive lives with some bad memories.

IMO - Until there is, I see a less than wholly justifiable outcome in simple solutions like locking these folks up forever, and throwing away the key. We have a justice system in this country - we don't live in a nation where total annihilation (of anyone) is supposedly the goal if they victimize someone else (w/the exception of murder, and I am personally at odds with the whole capital punishment idea). To me, that includes perpetrators (after they've done their time) as well as victims.

But I would like to see more victim's compensation courts implemented - because I do see more emphasis on the perpetrators than the victims in the criminal justioce system, overall.

popeye: See the above. Plus - you can (legally) force someone to take Depo-provera - and you can also monitor whether they are doing that.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 7:36:27 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to deadbluebird)

Post #: 57

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 7:29:06 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Maybe the best thing to do is to take a martial arts class (!)

- Susan

Or keep them in jail.

That works.

Put child molestors into general population and let the other inmates solve the problem.

Oh, that is just me being obstructively cynical and jaded. I apologize.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Aileen68)

Post #: 58

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 7:31:44 PM

Aileen68

Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
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I'll take cynical and jaded everday instead of having my head in the clouds.
Whatever keeps my girls safe. That's what a parent does. We keep our unmentionables as safe as we can.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 59

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! - 2/22/2007 7:39:48 PM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Do you realize how easy it is for someone to be labelled a sex offender, by gossip and innuendo - even if they are not convicted? Even if they never commited the crime? Do you realize how easily people's lives can be ruined, almost overnight, by one kid whispering in their mom's ear that Mr. so-and-so was touching little Amy in a not-so-nice way?

It sickens me just how many people seem willing to buy that kind of information - regardless of whether it even checks out. It can really turn my stomach - almost as much as a real sex offense can.

I realize these people have committed real crimes - and against children, too. And that rapists have committed them against people unable to defend themselves. But -

"Better safe than sorry" - is (in many ways) too easy a solution (for me). It's just simplistic thinking, and it's not very fair. It might be the only realisitc solution at the monent, but it's also the kind of thinking that got black people lynched by the Klan, earlier in this century.

Maybe there really isn't a better solution - but I would have hoped for better, slightly more sophisiticated reasoning, from people on a bdsm website. No insult intended (really and truly). It sounds to me like almost nobody can even sympathize with the fact these are real people. Everyone is entitiled to their own opinion.

But - It seems it's either-or black or white, good or bad. Is it really? I doubt it.

I find myself wondering whatever happened to seeing different sides of an issue.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 7:58:34 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)

Post #: 60

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