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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/24/2007 10:08:06 PM   
Zsuzsanna


Posts: 108
Joined: 12/17/2006
Status: offline 		*ponders this* I agree juliaoceania. You can never get away from yourself. No matter how much you want to.  

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"Somewhere Ralphie smiles and says enjoy her every cry." Tori Amos

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/24/2007 10:39:18 PM   
sensualmagirl


Posts: 1065
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Your experience and issues are so very very common.  My ex only now believes I really loved her because I have been so good to her after she broke up with me (she wanted kids, I don't). 

Something that helped me deal with anger but applies in almost every circumstance is not taking things as personal.  Peoples actions say things about them, not you.  Someone leaves you, that means more about them than it does about you.

Part of the fear of letting someone in is the fear that their opinion of you will become important and that if they move on, that will mean you are worthless (or any number of similar feelings) and you are afraid of that.




yes, I can see that for sure... I do know, deep inside, that people move on (whether they choose to or not) no matter what we try to do. Iit's just simply a fact of life, whether we like it or not, it may or may not have anything to do with us personally.

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"The most important thing in any relationship is not what you get but what you give" --Eleanor Roosevelt


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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/24/2007 10:42:38 PM   
sensualmagirl


Posts: 1065
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have spent a lifetime pushing people away. My former dominant would demand I have no walls with him. He would forcibly tear them down without much regard to the net effect of that action. After that relationship ended I had a choice, rebuild those walls or find someone safe enough to help me gently remove the rest of them... I chose the latter course of action. It just seemed like too much effort to rebuild them... and I knew if I did put them back up no one would ever get behind them again.

I am in awe of how healing our relationship is. I am in awe of his patience with me, helping me get past myself.. because my defenses were about my inability to handle my emotions... they were never about other people. Sensualmagirl, I have to say you cannot run away from yourself, and that is what my sigline signifies


yes, he's been quite gentle and patient (more than I could've imagined actually!) with tearing down the walls and finding my true self, it really is refreshing for me to discover even more so of who I am (and who I have been afraid of for so long)... as well as it is refreshing to read how so many people have dealt with similar emotions in their lives

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"The most important thing in any relationship is not what you get but what you give" --Eleanor Roosevelt


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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 3:53:00 AM   
OnlyHis


Posts: 137
Joined: 2/25/2004
Status: offline 		sensual,  Never apologize for giving us something to think about.  I know it has given me more than one thing to look back on and realize i learned something ( more).
Anyway i know the feelings you are speaking of. I have had visits with Master , after being away from him for many months or even over a year and been scared of seeing him,  tried to find reasons to cancel the trip.  I mean i literally freaked out. Because He has opened more doors for me, He knows all my fears and anxieties and i have had times i wondered if those feelings would be used against me. They never were, Master would not do that. But getting to this stage where i am feeling deep security in where my relationship is with Master took time but it has come for me. I have been his for well over 5 years.
You are going to have emotional roller coasters, you will feel at times that he does not understand you or want to, you are gonna feel like running. There are going to be times when your Master does things that really tick you off, or that you are hurt by and you are going to have doubts about where you are headed. But hang on because like has happened to me more times than i can say, in time i saw that those things happened because they had to. I had something to learn, the trust in Master needed to grow , and what happened only made my feelings for Master and our relationship that much stronger.

All the best to you. Glad you and your Master got past this bump in the road.

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 3:59:00 AM   
OnlyHis


Posts: 137
Joined: 2/25/2004
Status: offline 		subAlly05,   I have had those times when i thought if i told Master this or that about my past that he would turn away. Know something- it only caused him to want me as his that much more. It felt good to be able to tell Master those things and it felt even better that it didn't make me any less in his eyes.
Take care

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 4:31:03 AM   
scarlettuk


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/16/2007
Status: offline 		Sensual from many of the other replies to your posting you are far from alone with emotionas and the fears they cause to arise in your mind.
After all we are human yet d/s does make us more aware of our inner self and we lay ourselves bare to our Masters/Mistresses.
 
Over the years prior to my relationship with Master had built up the barracade many speak of as a defense mechanism against being hurt again. Yet he has sensed many things from my past without me speaking of it first. By doing so has opened the door for us to speak openly about these matters as they occur.
 
Each day we all learn more about what makes us who we are but it's a matter of understanding it better.
Far from easy with past hurts to contend with along plus the fears of being left alone in pain again from another one.
 
It's been easier to push people away than allow then into your heart and soul. However, when you do can find a peace that's never been there before.
When any doubts or fears happen not just in this life but vanilla also it's best to speak together about them. Often may find your Master has some of his own which not easyfor him to voice without an opening appearing for him to do so to you.
 
Personally have found that time spent apart has helped me grow within our relationship although at the time had feelings of being alone and adrift in life without him. Just as other couples do when have enforced seperations.

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Yesterday is gone so forget it merely learn from any mistakes you made.

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 4:35:37 AM   
Squeakers


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline 		     I've always had the fear of abandonment.   I know how and why I have this fear but even knowing how this fear orginated doesn't make it any better.    Building up walls does not work for me, because I can have as many as I want and there is still a sense of loss when a relationship ends.    I just concentrate on knowing that I will be able to carry on in the event that a relationship ends.   Silly as it sounds, I imagine if the relationship were to end, how I would conduct myself.   I already know that it would hurt, but I must know that I have the inner strength to get through it.    Everyone does have that strength but knowing already that I do will make the transistion a bit smoother for me.   I sincerely hate falling apart in the depths of depression.    I simply can not allow myself to fall apart for days on end.   It seems to make everything worse.    I let life happen.   I have to because each and every experience one goes through happens for a reason.    There seems to be a lesson to learn with every experience and each experience gets me from point a to point b.   
       In my relationship, I love and love hard with no barriers.    I express my feelings good or bad without fear.    It's made us much closer than if I were to build up walls.   It has made the experience more intense than any I have ever had.   If it ends at some point, I know I can get through it without my life totally falling apart.  
      I trust in my own abilities to cope.    I am able to depend on me.   I set goals that work for me with or without another person in my life.    By doing this I am able to go on without fear.       

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 5:57:54 AM   
StellaByStarlite


Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		Hello. =)

Well, while we're being open and upfront, lol...

I'm not sure if it can be defined as a fear, but I've always been put off by blatant emotionalism. This is probably due to having a mother prone to histrionics and tantrums. Her lack of control made a few messes in her life ( mine too), so I quickly learned to assess things a bit more cerebrally then necessary.

In retrospect, my personality has probably resulted in pushing people away because, well, human beings are emotional, irrational critters, lol. I've been called cold and unfeeling before, but I try not to be. It's just that I tend to avoid making decisions based on sheer emotion and instead go to the extreme with rationality.

My owner and I are working on it, lol. Trying to rely almost completely on objective reason is not only impossible ( we're not robots), but also doing oneself a disservice because to be truly human is to experience emotions.

Isn't it ironic that my prior quest to be rational is, in fact.. irrational? =)

great thread, btw
Stella

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 7:27:26 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		We all have defenses,shields or props that serve us.

We have to have them to cope with the reality of being left, or painful changes and situations. The difficulty is using them in the most helpful places and being able to slide them away when they hinder us.

It's natural to be fearful of being vulnerable because it's not a place of safety. It's also, as you say, an extremely freeing place to be and I suppose a lot of the angst is about trying to balance the pleasurable aspect of it with the frightening aspect.

Also, getting attached to someone in a way that outpaces your sense of security causes angst and worry.

agirl





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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 8:30:47 AM   
sensualmagirl


Posts: 1065
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		~fast reply~

I'm seeing myself in everyones comments this morning. What's been so strange for me, is that I felt this kind of feeling right away... that I just know life is the way it is, and things are going to change. But, I was able to kind of push it back and enjoy my natural defenses or "walls" to come down with him.  I too have a problem with being over emotional, so tend to shrink from it. I too kind of see how I would behave when things change or end, and I know I'll be fine, I've always been a kind of "pick yourself up and move on" kinda gal... lol.

What's so strange is that this kind of irrational emotions came out of left field. We have talked online every day while he's been gone, but, when the time got closer to when he was coming back, my mind said "well, we've been apart for 2 months now, so, why not just let it go now instead of moving forward? He'd be better off with someone else anyhow. Yada, Yada." But, yet, the thought of not moving forward and learning more about myself and him, was way more painful than anything else.

I'm very happy I came forward and told him about these fears I had, and we chatted it out... I trust him implicitly, even with this bit of information of me, which I had not done before. He understand where it came from, gave me reassurances and made a light-hearted reference to the fact that it's not my place to decide that he'd be better off without me.

I'm also very happy that I came forward here and shared with all of you   Like I said, for me, keeping people at a safe distance happens a lot in everyday life, but, I find it harder to hide it in this kind of relationship.

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 9:31:27 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sensualmagirl

I'm not afraid of abandonment,


I don't think you are being honest with yourself here....


quote:



but, rather, I do know that eventually, life changes for better or for worse... people move on, die, life changes... but, I can't imagine not having him at least as a friend in my life, so, in my twisted mind, I thought if I got rid of him from my life, then, I won't have to miss him later... doesn't make sense, I know... lol.

I know that I've done this my whole life with people... always keeping them at a safe distance.  But, I am finding that with the D/s M/s dynamic, it's almost impossible to hide my true self from him.

But, I guess if I'm wondering I guess if I'm alone in this? Has anyone actually as my mother would say "bit off their nose to spite their face"? Pushed someone away? Do you struggle with this even now? How do you deal with your fear of your own emotions?

Again, I appologize for not making sense possibly, and also, the long post.


your behavior is simply

"Reject and push him away... before he abandons me."

My gut tells me that some of your behaviors are very much routed in a deep seeded fear of being abandoned. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 9:57:55 AM   
subAlly05


Posts: 5
Joined: 10/14/2006
Status: offline 		does any one know why the picture next to my post states that I'm vanilla? I'm anything but vanilla....

(in reply to duckykarma)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 9:59:14 AM   
justplainjava


Posts: 173
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		because you are new to posting here, on the collar me site

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 10:16:22 AM   
CassandraAlexis


Posts: 44
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		no you are not alone. I have layers of walls with doors, and guard dogs protecting my feelings and emotions. Some people get in past a few, but I never have let anyone go all the way. Seems anytime they get one wall outside of that, they either die or leave. Most of the Doms in my past have gotten through most of the walls over time and calmed some of the guard dogs, but I have never allowed anyone to actually make it.

It is self preservation.

Even just those what-ifs start in my head, often a few doors will get closed. I think it is a natural thing, especially if you have a past of getting screwed over multiple times.

cassandra

< Message edited by CassandraAlexis -- 2/25/2007 10:18:09 AM >

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 10:23:07 AM   
subAlly05


Posts: 5
Joined: 10/14/2006
Status: offline 		AH! thanks justplain

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 10:31:25 AM   
sensualmagirl


Posts: 1065
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		probably KnightofMists, you are right, I've never been in therapy or any of that, so, I guess I was playing more with symantics... i.e., you can not be afraid of something that might happen when you know that it will happen -- since it's a fact of life. Typically, I tell myself to enjoy the people in my life today, apprecite them, and don't let them go -- even if I do not completely show my vulnerabilities to everyone, I want them to stay in my world as long as I can possibly have them... just, let the future worry about itself. That's why I was very surprised by my reactions the other day.

However, I was giving some thought to this just now, I think it's because of the fact that I've grown to depend emotionally on not only the relationship, but even his sheer friendship a lot. I've exposed my vulnerable and submissive side (not the strong independent side that most know of me) to him on a level I never have to anyone else, not even my best friends.

I have always told myself to never depend on anyone too much, depend on yourself (I saw what my mother went through after my father died and how difficult it was for her to carry on), and while I'm not completely dependent on him and never will be, it's still difficult to grasp just how much I depend on him just being there as a part of my life. Friends have become less prominant people in my life for various reasons (they have kids/don't have the time, they convert to some conservative religion, etc), and it was hard to handle that, but I did. So, I can't imagine what may happen if I lost him from my life.... I will be fine, I know, but, I don't like to think about it either. Maybe that's where the push away came from... or rather, get him pissed off at me to push me away... LOL... didn't work though, he's too smart for that!

Well, like I said before, I'm glad that I came to my senses, talked to him (before I posted this even), and not pushed him away.

I'm hoping I'm making sense still and that this thread can help not only me, but others as well.

< Message edited by sensualmagirl -- 2/25/2007 10:45:26 AM >

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 10:53:06 AM   
FiestyFi


Posts: 13
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline 		I find the most intense fear as a submissive is laying yourself bare to another person, and seeing whether that person accepts you or rejects you. I've found that a d/s relationship is much more intense than any vanilla one. Most of my past vanilla relationships have never been connected emotionally. I think thats mainly to do with the level of trust, openesses, honesty and communication you have in a d/s relationship. Without those things in a d/s relationship you have nothing. This I find is the biggest downfall of a submissive relationship, you expose your whole self, all of your vunlerabilities to another person, who either chooses to accept them or not.

Then you get the fact that you are the weaker one in the relationship (I'm a newbie, be patitent with me please.) Regardless of safe words, or hard limits, ultimately it is the dominant that has the power and control. Giving that to another person to use over you is extremely trusting on the submissive part. What does a submissive get in return? Do we get dominants laying themselves bare to us?

Then once you've given so much of your inner self away to have the thought/feeling/threat of then losing that person, makes it incredibly painful. Its not the same as ending a vanilla relationship, its more intense. Lets face it, dominants can quickly move onto the next submissive. Subs have to learn how to heal from the pain before finding another dominant. Unless we get immune from the process of being laid bare for each and every dominant that walks the earth.

My next biggest fear is knowing that the dominant you've trusted with your life, your mind, your body and your soul, no longer wants any of you anymore. As a submissive you give so much, as a dominant you take so much. When its all over who is the one feeling exposed, used, and discarded like a piece of rubbish. Granted as submissives we can do the ending of the relationship but its very rare.

Its also very scary being a submissive, you want to stay in tact, remain whole and in piece, remain strong, but when you give yourself to someone to do as they please, you lose the ability to stay tough, your barriers and walls fall down and your left vunlerable and exposed. Sometimes that can be for the better, other times it can be for the worse.

Dominats want us to give them our submission, act as a submissive, behave like a submissive, but inside I feel I'm clinging to keep my inner self locked away in case that if I expose it, and my mind, I will lose the dominant. Sometimes it just easier to push them away than it is to let them in. Both are equally painful options.

The fact remains being submissive is a juggling act.

Just my thoughts as a newbie. I could be completely wrong. But I thought this was a great topic. A good question to ask and to be answered.

FiestyFi

N.B I'm really annoyed as I wrote a previous reply that I felt was quite good, only to lose it when forwarding to page 2.

< Message edited by FiestyFi -- 2/25/2007 10:55:45 AM >

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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 10:56:12 AM   
sensualmagirl


Posts: 1065
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...But, I guess if I'm wondering I guess if I'm alone in this? Has anyone actually as my mother would say "bit off their nose to spite their face"? Pushed someone away? Do you struggle with this even now? How do you deal with your fear of your own emotions?...


this slave doesn't fear her own emotions---20 some years ago this slave was diagnosed with a problem of the hormonal variety that pretty much leaves this slave hormonally similar to the roller coaster of pregnancy on a permanent basis--until that blissful state of menopause sometime in the near future!!!  so , for the last 20 years if this slave was feeling overly emotional she would just blame it on the hormones and move on.  no mooning over it or wondering what it really meant.  take a hot bath, meditate, drink some "herbal" tea...all better.


You know something, this makes sense too... my reaction was such a shock to even myself, because normally when those ideas of getting to close too someone creeps up on me, I'm able to push them back down and tell myself to stop worrying about it, let the future take care of itself. But, this happened during that wonderful emotional rollercoaster ride time women have every month or so... maybe that's why I was unable to kick those feelings back down.  It's still good because at least these emotions and fears got out to be examined.



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"The most important thing in any relationship is not what you get but what you give" --Eleanor Roosevelt


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RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 11:07:32 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		there is a difference between being Dependent on a person... as compared to being Interdependent.

I... Independent

Him... Dependent.

We.... Interdependent.

So many crave that We... but settle for the Him.  Don't settle... and I am glad you open to him.. I think there is alot of potential for the two of you because of your openness to one another.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to sensualmagirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Emotions and Irrational Fear as a Submissive - 2/25/2007 1:09:05 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		I think i can understand the fact that he might leave you.  I lost my mentor and my former master to death.  So i know what it fells like to be left and i built walls to protect me from that pain again.  My Master now is older than me again and i afraid i might lose him too but i would never give up what we have for as long as we have it.

Matt's littleone


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 40
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