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ORIGINAL: Archer
First off a little information so that you can have an idea of where Newark NJ is it's just a very few miles from New York City, where there are many groups and several S&M clubs, Some of the groups there have been active since the 70's. So my observation was made from an informed possition. I do however still reccomend new people get involved in RT face to face groups reguardless of their location, in the same 4 hours that you spend cruising profiles online you could be face to face with people, and the communication that can occure face to face trumps internet anytime.

Apparantly you don't know that the class listings of many if not most events deal with the mental dynamic as well. Certainly the physical skills classes are most often the crowded ones but I can name a dozen or more presenters who give classes on the mental emotional and spiritual levels of BDSM and Leather. You think all those books that people read have everything the authors can offer you? I've been able to sit down with some of the leather ledgends because I spend time at these events. Many of the presenters are people with decades of RT experience, the chance to actually ask them questions and learn from them directly is priceless.

We seem to have a very different view of natural ability and it's importance.
You can have all the natural tallent in the world but without instruction from experienced people that talent never develops into what it could. You can have a small ammount of talent and develope it into something really good. Certainly natural talent is nessisary to a certain level, but what you do with that talent through practice and learning from people who know more is the reall diffeence between being the major leages and AAA minors.

I'm not saying it's a "try before you buy" that's you reading into things, the first few people I played with physicly were people who were collared to other people, loaned to me to help me learn the basics of physical play under their Dominants supervision, after that I played with people as I could find them negotiated for limited single scenes, face to face. Some of those developed into regular scene partners, later I actually collared a slave, that ended after about a year, I collared another a year or so later, and have been with her for 6 years.

Single submissives like to play sometimes too while they await the time they find a Dominant, that time can be well spent learning things they like don't like so that they can make a better informed decission about what Dominant fit's their needs best. I'm strictly talking RT here I only go only for discussion and networking. Most often there is a time when physical play is what it is limited to, physical play is not nearly a deep and personal as mental/emotional play, So basicly physical play is considered much like a dateing period It' public play so no "sex" and supervised by the community so that the dangers of being alone with someone you know only a little bit is mitigated. It's basicly Chaperoned play.

OP may very well have a natural talent, I'm sure he believes he does, and that's great.
But to develope that talent to the level I like to see takes spending some time learning the finer points from people who've been at this for awhile. If nothing else you get to avoid some of the pitfalls that the books and online don't teach you about, and that can be very dangerous to find out the hard way.

Your way though as I read it is for some subissive to simply trust a profile meet OP and go from there.
My way is for OP to go out and meet people and SHOW prospective submissives that he is indead a good safe person to trust their body mind and soul to. You earn a reputation and let that reputation be your advertisement for a slave.

Archer

Hope that that helps with your questions and has few enough theatrics for you, LOL

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ORIGINAL: Focus50

The concept of BDSM being a lifestyle or relationship one lives seems at odds with many here. Frankly, I've never come across so many who regard BDSM almost as a hobby or vocation. A place to "visit"....

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I don't see myself as being in BDSM to "explore your place in the "scene"."

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BDSM has a place in my life and I make life decisions to accomodate it.

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I agree like-minded people are handy to discuss different aspects of play, toys or lifestyle in general.

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But I don't place your perceived importance in learning "Different types of PE" - I'm not here to collect experiences! BDSM covers a lot of territory and I only seek out what suits my needs - it's called being comfortable in my own skin.

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ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
The community protects and nurtures newbies. It protects and instructs those who have been around a while. It protects and provides those who have been around a while with a place they can be respected. It isn't about discussing aspects of play or toys, though those things are nice. It is about you watching my back while I watch yours. It is about the kajira grapevine and one dom quietly informing another of the SAM in the corner. It is about providing a playspace (emotional as well as physical) where one can really be themselves amongst others and not hidden away in our soundproof bedrooms.

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ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

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ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
The community protects and nurtures newbies. It protects and instructs those who have been around a while. It protects and provides those who have been around a while with a place they can be respected. It isn't about discussing aspects of play or toys, though those things are nice. It is about you watching my back while I watch yours. It is about the kajira grapevine and one dom quietly informing another of the SAM in the corner. It is about providing a playspace (emotional as well as physical) where one can really be themselves amongst others and not hidden away in our soundproof bedrooms.

No it doesn't. It tries to make friends, court favor, become popular and accepted and indoctrinate/seduce any new people it can into its own dogma/doctrine in whatever particular friend-group-clique it is in at the moment.

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And personally, I don't want to be nurtured or protected by a "community" of bdsmer's. I applaud the activists, I support NCSF and the ones out there who are really putting their butts on the pavement and making a difference. But I'm an independent female, I don't need protection.

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ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
I felt no suduction/indoctrination when I went to Black Rose. When I drove down to meet Bailey/Topcat/Suz/David/gem/Bella/SherriA/et al there was no dogma or doctrine being pushed. It seems like you have been involved in some shite... the doesn't mean we all have.

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You enjoy the fruits of the protection, even when you claim to not want them.

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How many psychos have been sniffed out by the community before they ever got a chance to even talk to you? How many people have been educated and learned some acceptance before you even got a chance to play in a space they might observe? How many have helped get books published so that newbies could have some sort of clue before they jumped into the fray? The great thing about the community is that it protects you even if you don't want it to...one day you will realize it and be thankful.

Taggard

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ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Life is life, bdsm has the same crap that vanilla does. Our community is no greater or more purposeful.

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As well, I used to live in NJ and was involved with David and Gem as their slave for awhile...I'm speaking of the bdsm community as a whole, there are always pockets of good and bad, I create pockets of good.

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You can't deny that what I've said occurs, and often. Those people are just as much "the community" as the good ones.

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I don't know what that has to do with being young, are you playing the age card at last?

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I don't need protection in the bdsm community any more than a strong independent woman needs protection at a singles bar. I'm not going to go all Walden-ish here, but I don't need protection just because I'm a slave, thanks.

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You enjoy the fruits of the protection, even when you claim to not want them.

I never said I didn't want protection- I just don't want protection from the bdsm community. I want trained professionals to call upon, who have ACTUAL LEGAL authority to do something if something goes wrong, not rumor mongers or delusional knights in leather armor.

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How many psychos have been sniffed out by the community before they ever got a chance to even talk to you? How many people have been educated and learned some acceptance before you even got a chance to play in a space they might observe? How many have helped get books published so that newbies could have some sort of clue before they jumped into the fray? The great thing about the community is that it protects you even if you don't want it to...one day you will realize it and be thankful.

I don't consider most of that "protecting" me and you must have missed all that stuff I wrote about supporting activism.

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Again, I don't need any more protection than a vanilla chick at a bar does.

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ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
I would somewhat disagree. Our community has a sense of purpose in protecting its image that other communities simply do not have to worry about. No one is going to send a granny from a quilting circle to jail for doing her thing, yet we do face that possibility. If the public image of BDSM were to take a sudden PR plunge, we might all go scrambling for the basement, and most in the community are aware of that. This makes us a bit more mindful of threats and potential problems.

Perhaps you are not not mindful of such...which is fine. Again, you benefit from this even if you do not recognize it

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The thing I am saying is that those negative aspects tend to be "outed" pretty quickly in the community and labled as such. At least that has been my experience.

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I think I am just feeling kind of fatherly...not typical emotion for me. I went through the "I don't need anyone" stage...and yet...we all need someone.

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Sheesh...you think a strong independent woman isn't getting the protection of her community at a singles bar??? I dance regularly at a salsa club. If some stranger were to walk up to one of the regular female dancers and start pawing her, the regular male dancers would find a way to end it and be sure it didn't happen again.

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It isn't any kind of charity, and the woman might not even need it, but communities like that would suffer if the women didn't feel like they could dance without being pawed.

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Going back to my salsa club...if anyone were to actually assault a regular, the community would step in long before any trained professionals could show up on the scene. When I am in a public setting, I consider it my responsibility to help maintain peace and order. I know many who feel the same, though they might not ever actually think of verbalizing such feelings. It is how I was raised, and how I will always live my life.

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Which part do you consider protection and which part don't you consider protection? The psycho who never even gets a chance to meet you?

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The person who would have called the cops had they not been educated on BDSM?

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The newbie who thought all slaves wanted to be locked up in his basement until he read a book that explained the reality of the situation? Which one of these are you not being protected from by the community?

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Sure....that nilla chick has the patrons, the bouncers, the local police, the state police, the national guard, the fbi, the cia, etc... to protect her. You get the same...like it or not.
Taggard

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ORIGINAL: Archer

You equivolence of play and sleeping around doesn't work for me, as I said these public play scenes are Chaperoned by the community. They are more like kissing or petting than sex, when the scene is between people who view the play as sexual, not everyone does. The scenes are limited in scope for legal reasons in most cases.

Heck I can't count the number of people who I've flogged where their was no intention of anything sexual ever comming from it from either side.
I'm negotiating a scene with a lesbean freind who is partnered with a woman I know and love as a sister. She has seen me play and likes the style I play and has requested the chance to bottom to me for a scene. That most certainly isn't a try before you buy situation. Nothing sexual about the scene purely a Sadist/masocist exchange.
I'm Het but I've scened with men both gay and het, again no try before you buy intent there either.

So where in your scenareo does the submissive get unbiased feedback that what you've said online and on your vanilla date (s) is anything more than a well researched response quoteing all the right books and websites? Where do the get the Personal references that you really do have singletail skills, that you know how to use needles, that your attention to safety really is a fact of the way you play and not just good intentions? After a few vanilla dates the time to find out that someone has believed their own hype is not after you've been strapped to the St Andrews in their basement. It's easier to fool one submissive isolated from the community, than it is to fool the combined resources of the community.

I know several people who practice almost exclusively private play and I have no problem with most of them, But of all the Dom's who have turned out to be actually dangerous physicly to their charges, the vast majority of them have been "kicked out of the community" but take refuge in the ranks of the "I just want to avoid the politics" private play only.

I advocate becomming involved in the community and developing ones reputation as a person who plays safely, knows their craft, takes classes to further educate themselves on not only the physical techniques but also the mental processes and spiritual elements of Leather.

I think our real contention is in that we view "play" from completly different viewpoints, in your case you seem (at least to me) to always compare it to sexual activity, In my case I veiw it as a means to achieve an altered mental/spiritual state for both Top and Bottom.
(which can be sexual or non sexual in nature)

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ORIGINAL: Focus50

I see Taggard has implied I'm not a real lifestyler because I don't do the public bizzo - apparently that's at the root of the issues here....

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ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

I am not trying to belittle you or what you do. Your form of loving BDSM is great. It is safe and doesn't really need any more community supervision then a vanilla relationship. What you fail to see is that we practice something a bit more intricate and requires a bit more education and precautions.

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Does everyone in community think a relationship Dom (myself) is a myth or just not a "real liferer"?

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ORIGINAL: MzBerlin

Focus-
You may have hesitated to use the word "exaggerate" in your original post, but it did not stop you from using it and therefore doesn't really matter.
As for "politicallycorrect drama queen who blows things out of proportion", please know that I am flattered that you gave my personality and convictions that much time, effort and thought. I believe that you believe that. HOWEVER- before you get too swept away in your addled perception of me, please channel some of that energy into reading my previous posts and comments. There are plenty out there, and maybe they'll give you better insight into who I am.

As for "telling guys what they want to hear", I am not one to mince words or be dishonest in any way. And I don't think that's an honorable way of "getting to first base." Sure, people out there may do it, but that doesn't make it right. It is also not a good way to begin a relationship that you'd like to last longer than one night.

"Crocodile Tears"?? This has me confused. So does your charge that I am "angry". I'm not angry, nor crying about what you've said. It doesn't piss me off, it makes me sad. The fact that a dominant man would have to lie to get in someones pants is kind of sad and rather icky.

It appears from your post that I have you a bit flustered. It's OK. I've done it to quite a few of the guys on the boards.

Now, on to your list....
1. Wow. Whether you grew up or currently live in a city of half a million makes a HUGE difference in the meaning of a post. *note sarcasm*
2. Yes. Good job. It IS the OP who is seeking a sub.
3. You are posturing and posing when you "exaggerate" your experience. Going to a play party, convention or other lifestyle event simply shows that you're commited and willing to grow. I'm not sure how commitment and a willingness to grow implys that you're a poser.

Adios, Focus
B

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ORIGINAL: MzBerlin

Focus-
Most of your post is just fluff. Grandstanding and posturing seem to be two of your kinks!! Who knew? Also, I would have to agree that your view is in the minority. You state that you're comfortable in your own skin, but you feel that it's OK to lie? That it helps you get chicks? Dude, that's all you....
I'm happy that you don't feel the need to get involved in your community. I don't want you attending any conventions or meetings that I do. I would hate for you to lie to an impressionible sub girl and be one of those Doms that gives the BDSM community a bad name. I get tired of explaining why guys like you do what you do, both on line and in RT. So, thankyou. Thankyou very much.
The OP stated his desire to find a sub for a LTR full time relationship. He did not state the dynamic of the relationship, which is what I stated in my post. Perhaps you didn't understand the word "dynamic". I use it to discuss the structure of a relationship, the different protocal and requirements in a structured relationship. So, you are correct in stating that the OP stated his desires, but you are not correct in saying that I was mistaken. I simply pointed out that he did not "state his desires as far as the structure of his interaction with a fem/sub".
Wow, you certainly like to make assumptions about how I FEEL regarding your posts. While I am an emotional gal, I really don't get that bent out of shape regarding forum posts, just so you know.
B

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ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
Just so you know, when you claim someone "quoted out of context" it implies that the context would change the meaning of the words quoted. I will admit it seems you have some grasp of the concept (or perhaps just gained some). The example you give is a good one, as if I were to quote you as saying "I'm some wannabe" it would indeed be out of context (but probably fairly accurate *wink*). Now, I challenge you to find a single quote I have attributed to you that would change meaning when more context was given?

The one example you did give, was your "6 or 7 doms per sub" quote. You provided the charge, I defended my interpretation, providing even more context and supporting evidence of my interpretation. You simply screamed "OUT OF CONTEXT" again... repeating a charge does not make it true.