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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 2:25:57 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		They aren't the same thing but a part of the whole..bounty

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(in reply to petstorm)
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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 2:38:20 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		You post does kind of come on like this is the one way.  It's your way.  And it works for you.  What I don't understand is why what anyone else thinks gets under your skin.  Are they ringing your doorbell and telling you that BDSM and D/s are the same?  No?  Then why the hell do you care?

(in reply to petstorm)
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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 2:58:02 PM   
valeca


Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petstorm



As you can see, D/s IS listed among the grouping, but it's meant more for roleplay than actual 24/7 lifestyle.

Anyway, there's one other thing that i forgot to ask. As a submissive/slave, or even as a Master/Mistress... i'm wondering how many people out there come into this lifestyle without knowing there's a difference, and how it is that it's not as highly voiced and taught as Safe. Sane. and Consensual is.

We now return you to your regularly posted forum......


Where did you learn it was more meant for roleplay? 

I don't really subscribe to the whole SSC bit.  A lot of what we (as in Lorairth and I) do wouldn't be considered 'safe' by some standards--edgeplay, for example, and 'sane' is in the eye of the beholder. 

I prefer RACK. 


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(in reply to petstorm)
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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 6:14:26 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		When I first started, I read a few books and web pages and talked to people.  I learned, like a lot of others, that BDSM was an umbrella term covering bondage and discipline, dominance and submission, sadism and masochism.  I don't spend a whole lot of time worrying about the umbrella term because it seems like most people use it as a label for a bunch of loosely related activities.

As for distinguishing between bdsm and D/s, I'm not sure I can.  I see all the activities that fall under the bdsm umbrella as being in some sense playing with power using different tools and I don't really see the possibility of being bound or whipped in the absense of submission, but I'm sure this is related to the fact that I'm submissive accross all contexts.  D/s has always confused me because  given my basic approach to life, I tend to see all relationships that go beyond the most superfiscial as involving Dominance and submission, so, for me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to differentiate a relationship as being D/s unless one is self consciously working with a power dynamic in the direction of equality. 


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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 6:32:15 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petstorm

When did i say there was one and only one true definition? Say what you want, but there IS a difference in the two and they can and are defined differently. Which would be why i also asked how you would define it. And YES, B/D – Bondage/Discipline, D/s – Dominant/submissive, S/M - Sado/Masochism is the universally excepted explaination of what BDSM stands for.

Do your homework. i know i did!


By your attitude you said it. Thank you acting in a sterotypical fashion of youth and making things harder for me.

Edited to Add, for your edification:

You could have said "I don't understand why these terms are used interchangably, please explain that because I thought yadda yadda yadda."

Or you could have said "I feel it's importent to keep BDSM and d/s as clearly defined and different. I'm not getting this from other people, do others agree with me?"

You could have said a lot of things that would enable you to get your point across without coming off as "This is my way and the way, the rest of you are either retarded or uninformed! NYAH!"

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 2/27/2007 6:38:44 PM >

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(in reply to petstorm)
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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 6:44:22 PM   
beltainefaerie


Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		I use the term BDSM to cover the whole range of wiitwd (what it is that we do, since you may or may not have "done your homework" on that one)
I believe that either can be applied to the whips and chains, the tying up, the roleplaying, the 24/7 roles, etc. without getting into the specifics of Daddy/boy, Master/slave, Lady/maid or whatnot.  Since every relationship is different, there are times when specific reference to specific relationships, roles or aspects may be easier and times when BDSM or wiitwd would suffice.
You may choose to use the terms however you wish, but please understand that there are those of us who clearly understand that a 24/7 Dominant and submissive relationship can still fit under the umbrella term BDSM.  D/s is right there in the middle.  BDSM can be everything from some kinky sex that has nothing to do with roles all the way up through the way you live your lives all the time.  I understand that having a perfectly compatible understanding of such terms would make communication easier, but you can generally tell from the post/blog/profile, what is meant by BDSM and if not, you can always politely inquire.  I wouldn't suggest telling them that they are wrong and should use only your definition of the term, though.  That tends to make folks a bit snarky.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 6:56:14 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		fastreply, this is directed to the op.

i use the term much the same as beltainefaerie, and have to agree with la, aquatic, and bandit25 in terms of the issues i take with your generalizing. the idea of separating d/s from bdsm is fairly new to me, but whatever makes people happy...we all have our own ways of using the words. i tend to use d/s and bdsm interchangeably when describing wiitwd, or to view d/s as a subset of bdsm, because that's how i learned it and that's how i understand it personally. (although i DO love the bit about d/s being who we are, bdsm being what we do...will have to think on that :).) that said, our d/s certainly isn't "just roleplay" (but there's nothing wrong with d/s that IS just roleplay, and there are plenty of tops, bottoms, and bedroom doms/subs who are happy with that).

as far as ssc/rack/etc...i really don't care for either of those and honestly haven't ever understood why they are so pervasive and debated in wiitwd. i suppose what my dominant and i do would fall under rack, as some of the types of play we do (such as breath play) wouldn't necessarily be accepted under ssc. i think the more time i have been in the lifestyle, the less need i have for labels...maybe this is why these kinds of debates and people getting all worked up over their definitions of technicalities don't excite me as much anymore.

(in reply to beltainefaerie)
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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 7:01:27 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

La di da... for those wondering what BDSM actually stands for it is:
B/D – Bondage/Discipline, D/s – Dominant/submissive, S/M - Sado/Masochism


I thought it was....Bondage Discipline Sadomasochism?  And D/s and maybe DD type relationships fell under that?  But what do I know.  Using the term D/s and BDSM helped me find my current partner and were some of the words we used while negotiating the terms of our relationship.... beyond that they aren't that important to me.  It's nice to have a quick way to refer to how our relationship works, but it's not like I'm too lazy to explain to those who are interested enough to ask either.

I guess what I mean is labels are useful tools but they aren't the be-all-end-all definition for my life, my hobbies, or my relationships.

And it seems like trying to make something as individual as kink into a bunch of concrete absolutes is kind of pointless







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(in reply to petstorm)
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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 7:57:26 PM   
TheShadows


Posts: 403
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Southern Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

By your attitude you said it. Thank you acting in a sterotypical fashion of youth and making things harder for me.



You summarized my feelings on that matter perfectly.  Thank you.

~MrsShadows~ 

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(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/27/2007 11:02:03 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		petstorm

quote:

  So how is it, that i can distinguish the two, and yet they are still confused and pressed together into one lump catagory? , 


You have decided that others are confused, but consider your next statement...

quote:

  but honestly... why does it seem like people living it, that should know and understand, do not?


Perhaps those living it DO understand it and it is you who do not yet grasp it?  You have a very common disease, it is called MYIBTYL, pronounced "mybitle".  The long form is "my label is better than your label."  It is common for people in tiny isolated and small communities to contract this disease as it is highly contagious in small communities.

Where I come from I have seen lowly bottoms who aren't even good enough to be called submissives stand at rigid attention for hours, not looking at anyone, waiting for their partner to arrive at a party.  In fact, the most beautiful acts of submission I have seen have more often than not come from bottoms rather than slaves.  Of course exposure to the vaccine for your disease can cure you, the vaccine is called  WTFCWTFLYG or "witflig" and is a cure for people like your self.  The name stands for "who the fuck cares what fucking label you got".

(in reply to petstorm)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 2:18:10 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Yes, BDSM has it's place in D/s, and vice versa, but they are two completely different things! You can have one without the other, though they can both go hand-in-hand in this wonderful community that we all reside in.


On more reflection I would like to point out that one could have bondage and discipline without anything else, or sado-masochism without anything else, and for some people their D/s is inseparable from BDSM, and that is really ok too.

I would wonder if you have heard of topping and bottoming in relationship to BDSM also?


Thank you!  i am really B&D with very little interest in S&M and i live D/s.  To me, D/s is found in most every aspect of daily life and spiritual beliefs that D/s for me at least is the way i live even when not in a relationship.  my very first experience was all about D/s releasing all control to another, submitting totally and completely and didn't encompass any kinds of punishment, discipline or pain.  i started my journey absolutely turned off by munch groups and "community" because all anyone talked about was pain and torture.  i have since learned that while i don't fit into the BDSM "norm" there is room for me within the community.


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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 2:55:30 AM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

junecleaver
I thought it was....Bondage Discipline Sadomasochism? 

So did I
Wasn't  Dominance-Submission  -added- over the years because it fit into the abbreviation




< Message edited by swtnsparkling -- 2/28/2007 2:57:58 AM >

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(in reply to junecleaver)
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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 2:59:13 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		That's what I thought too...it was added in.

(in reply to swtnsparkling)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 3:13:02 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Oooh! The Acronym Game!!!

BDSM - Bondage Discipline SadoMasochism OR Bondage Domination Submission Masochism (where'd the sadism go?)
D/s -  Domination/Submission OR Discipline Submission
SM - SadoMasochism (YAYY!)
M/s - Master Slave
BD - Bondage Domination
DM - A Dungeon Master
BM - Bowel Movement... wait... wrong acronym game!

At any rate, just because I see a difference between D/s and SM doesn't mean anyone else has to. My acronyms are not universal acronyms - they're what works for me. And if someone I'm talking to gets confused about what I mean, well... I'll just explain how I see it. They don't have to agree. And I'm not going to sit around wondering why in the world everyone else doesn't see things like I do. What a darn waste of energy!!

juliet

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 3:34:49 AM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: petstorm
La di da... for those wondering what BDSM actually stands for it is:
B/D – Bondage/Discipline, D/s – Dominant/submissive, S/M - Sado/Masochism

La di da, thanks for being so obviously wrong and OK with acting like you know this universal truth for everyone to see.

I've NEVER used bdsm to incorporate dominant/submissive.  In my experience, incorporating Ds into bdsm is a rather new idea.

When I first became aware of WIITWD as a real activity that others enjoyed rather than the deranged fantasies of youth this is exactly how BDSM was explained to me by older, wiser and more experienced folks, and that is now almost 20 years ago, pre-interweb and all that came with it. So certainly for as long as I have known that BDSM exists it has always been a catch all phrase of BD DS SM, and I guess its fair to assume for some folks it has been that way even longer than my short life. In short imo the original poster is far from wrong.
quote:


A lot of people use bdsm as you do, and a lot of people don't.  There is no "one way."

quote:

Anyway, there's one other thing that i forgot to ask. As a submissive/slave, or even as a Master/Mistress... i'm wondering how many people out there come into this lifestyle without knowing there's a difference, and how it is that it's not as highly voiced and taught as Safe. Sane. and Consensual is.

We now return you to your regularly posted forum......

Because it's not universally agreed upon that
a) there is a difference
b) what the difference is
c) there are tons of OTHER kinky things that we do which have nothing to do with bdsm and so it's not necessary to talk a lot about bdsm

As well, SSC is a neatly packaged, nice sounding motto for people to fling about as they choose and make them feel better.

I wouldn't presume you don't know anything, certainly not from your age, but it was stupid of you to suggest you have the one true ultimate definition of "bdsm" and how it's supposed to be used.

And thanks BR- that's exactly how I like to put it.


It is my understanding that SSC is not for us to fling about so we feel better about ourselves, but for us to fling at the unwashed masses to differentiate us from those involved in more conventional abuse and axe murderers etc.

Most attribute the term to David Stein who coined it in 1984 for GMSMA. More information can be found in the essay titled Safe Sane Consensual: The Evolution of a Shibboleth, in which he states that the term was developed "to distinguish the kind of S/M I wanted to do from the criminally abusive or neurotically self-destructive behavior popularly associated with the term 'sadomasochism' (from wikipedia)

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 5:23:27 AM   
SoCalOTKhristine


Posts: 12
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Being oh so new to the active scene, I try to be very specific about my wants and needs.  When someone sends me a message using said umbrella terms, or any term that could be interpreted by different people based on past experience, culture or geographical location, I request clarification.

The labels are guidelines only, we are all responsible for clarifying important information with potential partners prior to engaging in play or a relationship.  This goes for vanilla terms and BDSM terms or acronyms.

One Dom may assume because I have put myself in the submissive category that I am a doormat waiting to be walked on, another Dom works at earning the gift of my submission.  They are both using the guideline or category Dom to describe themselves, but, they are both acting out totally different ways of being a Dom.  I have my own opinion on which one is a true Dom, but that is my opinion.

In summary, the acronyms and labels are guidelines only.  They allow us more freedom in casual conversation to use them and know that the other party will get the gist of what you are saying.  However, when it comes done to the brass tacks of a partnership, the details are highly important.  Specifics, rather than guidelines should be discussed, because you don't want the other to have a gist, rather, the other should have an understanding.

K..I am delerious.  I can't believe how intelligent and well educated the people on these boards seem to be.  I have never been on a forum where almost all the posts were intelligently written, even the flaming is done in a manner to educate....and looks more like intellectual discourse rather than an internet forum.  I am excited to read more!

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"Human minds like parachutes are of not much value unless they are opened." - Charlie Chan

(in reply to littleone35)
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RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 5:53:41 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazyWhen I first became aware of WIITWD as a real activity that others enjoyed rather than the deranged fantasies of youth this is exactly how BDSM was explained to me by older, wiser and more experienced folks, and that is now almost 20 years ago, pre-interweb and all that came with it. So certainly for as long as I have known that BDSM exists it has always been a catch all phrase of BD DS SM, and I guess its fair to assume for some folks it has been that way even longer than my short life. In short imo the original poster is far from wrong.


M. Sleazy-
 
Are you sure about the time frame there? I never heard the term before '96 or so, and just checked- it doesn't seem to be used in either Different Loving, SM101, or Screw the Roses... - all published before 1995.
 
Maybe the term came out of the UK, and crossed the pond with the internet?
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

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(in reply to sleazy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 5:58:25 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		Dear 'Khristine-

quote:

Being oh so new to the active scene, I try to be very specific about my wants and needs.  When someone sends me a message using said umbrella terms, or any term that could be interpreted by different people based on past experience, culture or geographical location, I request clarification.


A Really good policy. It once took a girl and I nearly ten months to figure out that while she was looking for B&D, I was looking for D/S (and I guess we were meeting in the middle at SM<g>), due largely to the fact that we spoke of BDSM as a monolithic thing in itself.
 
Welcome aboard.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 8:28:17 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		You guys should really read some of the books that came out of the earlier days, The Leatherman's Handbook is a good start.  The Bottoming Book by Dossie Easton is great too, despite the title is one of the best about D/s written.  Things change, perceptions change, labels change.

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! - 2/28/2007 8:37:18 AM   
PAsextoy4u


Posts: 58
Joined: 9/27/2006
Status: offline 		Come on people LOL After reading all of this I just have a headache!  Oh my Oh my What am I? Who am I? What acronym should I use??? What letters should I use???

The more I read, the more confused I get LOL  What is it called if you just crave sensuous spankings and anal play??? 

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 40
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