RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference!

RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (Full Version)

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valeca -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (2/28/2007 8:48:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: junecleaver I thought it was....Bondage Discipline Sadomasochism? That's how I learned it, too.

ScreamerGirl -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (2/28/2007 3:08:41 PM)
God I hate slogans /sigh One of the reasons I backed far away from the "bdsm ([:'(]) Community" as a whole was because of this sort of thing. For the OP: Look, the bottom line here is this: Define it for yourself. And once you've done that, stop trying to beat people over the head with it nonconsensually because all you're really doing is showing your arrogance and inability to be open-minded.

sleazy -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 2:35:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topcat quote: ORIGINAL: sleazyWhen I first became aware of WIITWD as a real activity that others enjoyed rather than the deranged fantasies of youth this is exactly how BDSM was explained to me by older, wiser and more experienced folks, and that is now almost 20 years ago, pre-interweb and all that came with it. So certainly for as long as I have known that BDSM exists it has always been a catch all phrase of BD DS SM, and I guess its fair to assume for some folks it has been that way even longer than my short life. In short imo the original poster is far from wrong. M. Sleazy- Are you sure about the time frame there? I never heard the term before '96 or so, and just checked- it doesn't seem to be used in either Different Loving, SM101, or Screw the Roses... - all published before 1995. Maybe the term came out of the UK, and crossed the pond with the internet? Stay warm, Lawrence I am 111% certain of the time frame, it was with my first partner and her "club", that would put it in 1987/8. (yup I started pretty young and in at the deep end, perhaps those mysterious european houses really do exist[:D]) Back then there was not internet, bookshops refused to stock John Norman, and movies on TV containing female breasts had to be preceeded with a warning and have an on screen graphic during the entire show to warn channel surfers (even tho we only had 4 channels) Most of the members were much older, being in our late teens we were the youngest there, some members were well into pensionable age, and all had the same acceptance as bdsm as an umbrella to cover everything from just a little light cp for fun right up to 24/7 consensual slavery. Being back in the pre-interweb, pre sm-pride and similar days to maintian any kind of membership numbers the club had to be pretty inclusive, whereas now in our more enlightened days I know of one club in this city that caters purely to male puppy players, a very exclusive set.

Squeakers -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 4:32:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topcat Dear Liz- As far as I can tell, "BDSM" appeared around '96 or so, and at the time I first heard it, it was explained to me that it was a contraction of B&D/D/S/SM, and we were using it to cover everything, as a less clunky way of saying WIIWD. I cannot say for sure, but I think it was Gloria Brame who explained it to me at the time. Stay warm, Lawrence Not trying to contradict here but I am pretty sure I've heard the term BDSM prior to 1996 since I started in the early '90's.

moonspirit43 -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 4:50:33 AM)
When talking just casually with people, I assume that they use BDSM in the broadest sense possible. That it includes everything one can think of, including just the bedroom play and even onto 24/7 consensual slavery. I do that because I've found the majority of people use it just that way and it makes for easier communication if I don't get into semantics with everyone I talk to. It isn't until I get into the deeper and more intelectual conversations over BDSM that I bring out my own definitions of the labels. I use BDSM as referring to play time. When I'm in bondage, being whipped, etc. But it also involves me submitting and the other person taking control for that time period. So the D/s is in there, but not nearly to the same extent as it does in my everyday life. D/s then becomes a separate entity on its own because it's how I live and who I am, not just the play.

NControlofU -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 4:57:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Squeakers quote: ORIGINAL: topcat Dear Liz- As far as I can tell, "BDSM" appeared around '96 or so, and at the time I first heard it, it was explained to me that it was a contraction of B&D/D/S/SM, and we were using it to cover everything, as a less clunky way of saying WIIWD. I cannot say for sure, but I think it was Gloria Brame who explained it to me at the time. Stay warm, Lawrence Not trying to contradict here but I am pretty sure I've heard the term BDSM prior to 1996 since I started in the early '90's. Let's go back a little more. The acronym, BDSM, was around at least as early as the mid 1970's, that I'm aware of. That's when I started hearing it. It came about by combining the already used terms B&D (Bondage & Discipline) with S&M (Sadism & Masochism).

littlespicyone -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 5:24:24 AM)
I've been told that the Victorians actually began what we know as BDSM (bondage, discipline, sadomasochism), the bondage and discipline (the "B" and "D") coming from their supressed sexualities and need for rules. Of course, I highly doubt they called it BDSM. Also, sadism, which is the "S" in BDSM come from the Marquis de Sade who lived and wrote in the late 1700's in France. I don't know the history of the word masochism, but 3 out of 4 ain't bad, right? I agree with moonspirit that BDSM is an entirely different animal from D/s. I was submissive before I stumbled onto D/s and BDSM and doing housework for my Master makes me feel just a submissive as being beaten by him (c: I know that D/s is often a part of BDSM and BDSM is often used to strengthen and test the bond between Dominant and submissive, but ther certainly are not one and the same, or else how could there be professional Dominants? In the professional realm it is only BDSM without the added aspect of that relationship between Dom and sub.

juliaoceania -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 7:54:18 AM)
quote: Not trying to contradict here but I am pretty sure I've heard the term BDSM prior to 1996 since I started in the early '90's. I remember reading about it in the late 1980s in Penthouse forum. I kinda remember people joking around about S&M and B&D when I was in high school in the first part of the 1980s

AquaticSub -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 8:20:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Not trying to contradict here but I am pretty sure I've heard the term BDSM prior to 1996 since I started in the early '90's. I remember reading about it in the late 1980s in Penthouse forum. I kinda remember people joking around about S&M and B&D when I was in high school in the first part of the 1980s I know S&M was referenced in the movie "Nine to Five", which had to have been made in the 70s.

sleazy -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 9:36:29 AM)
Close Aquatic, it was a 1980 release date, so I guess parts of it could well have been written/produced in the 70s[:)] Must admit I thought it was older than that too Then I got silly and tried this..... http://imdb.com/keyword/bdsm/ that shows two from '94 where bdsm is integral to the production

AquaticSub -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 12:06:56 PM)
Really? In 1980? I wouldn't have guessed that... but it does imply that the term was being tossed around somewhere in the 70s for it be referenced in a movie in 1980 with reasonable expectation that people would understand what it meant.

Artsslave -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 12:52:35 PM)
Wow, maybe this should have been titled the history of BDSM with so many people talking about where it came from and what time frame. Anyone know any good websites that talk about the history of it, since we seem to be on the subject? i use BDSM when i'm talking to people because i think it's a generic term that most people are familiar with. You tell them that you live D/s and they give you a "huh" look. You tell them that you're into BDSM and a light bulb glows over their head. Not always the right color light, but at least they have a clue. i agree though. They are two completely different matters, even if their actual definitions may not always be agreed on.

sleazy -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 3:23:56 PM)
Artsslave, http://www.datenschlag.org/english/dachs/dachs_english.pdf might help, I barely looked at it but as the first entry in the timeline is "Ice Age", I would guess it goes back in history a fair way :) Incidentally I got the link from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bdsm which contains a list of other movies with bdsm references or themes including 9 1/2 weeks (1985) and of course The Story Of 'O' (1975). As yet another point of interest all the publications referenced bar one are 1993 and onwards as if bdsm suddenly came into being about the same time as the home computer really took off with bbs and a young internet :) (ahh the days of text and 2k4 connections)

DistantThunder -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 4:05:27 PM)
Simply because I have to through my two cents in here... because welll... I can. Top Cat and Sleazy are closest to the mark, Though, the term S&M was the psychological term used to define sexual deviance as far back as the Victorians... someone mentioned that and I am sorry I don't remember who. It was coined to define (Sadism) taken from the name of the Marquis De Sade as previously stated, but the "M" is derived from the word Masochist, the name of an auther named Leopold Von Sacher Masoch who wrote "Venus In Furs" in 1870. (Great read by the way) The concept of "Slave & Master" was essentially used brought about in the late 1940's and early 1950's by the gay Leathermen who were returning for thaters of war and wanted the structure and discipline that they had experienced in the military. It is also how the leather scene came about, many of the same men who were involved in the "Scene" belonged to motorcycle clubs and anyone who has riden a bike knows that the best way to keep your skin on your body when you lay a bike down is to wear leather... that and it makes a person's butt look great. B ut, with that said, the B.D.S.M. format which we use today to the united triumverate of the three primary kinks involved. B=Bondage, D=Discipline/ D=Domination, S=Submission/ S=Sado, M=Masochism... But, here is the rub. The lifestyle as most perceive it today is truly in its infancy, it is a growing, living thing, evolving and sprouting NEW definitions and NEW concepts daily as far as I can tell, much like BTW or WTF or BRB, they are relatively new to the language. (Gotta love that WWW) Soooo for all intensive purposes, it can mean whatever anyone really chooses it to mean at this point, nothing has yet beeen put in stone. (Kinda feels cool to be part of the cutting edge of something huh?) I got involved in the early 90's and back then we just called it "Kink"... But, Top Cat is right as far as the term not really being around at that point... S&M yes... The united BDSM no... not as far as my memory serves.

DistantThunder -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 4:11:35 PM)
Oh that was THROW my two cents in by the way... I would like to thank Sleazy though, the links are great and I will now spend most of the night perusing them.

mp072004 -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/1/2007 4:36:58 PM)
I understand BDSM to mean a set of things including inequal power dynamics, pain, and bondage. Thus, d/s, or agreed-upon inequal power, is a subset of BDSM. (All d/s is part of BDSM, but not all BDSM involves d/s.) SM is pain--sadomasochism--another subset of BDSM. (All SM is part of BDSM, but not all BDSM involves SM.) When I'm not being sloppy, I'll sometimes distinguish "d/s roleplay," taking on dominant and submissive roles for a scene, from an ongoing relationship in which we have agreed that I have more authority in our relationship than you. Monica

FalseProfit -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/2/2007 12:44:33 PM)
Dominion do·min·ion do·min·ion [do mínnyon] (plural do·min·ions) n 1. ruling control: ruling power, authority, or control 2. sphere of influence: somebody’s area of influence or control 3. land ruled: the land governed by a ruler (often used in the plural) the monarch’s dominions beyond the sea 4. or do·min·ion or Do·min·ion self-governing territory: a self-governing part of the British Commonwealth or, formerly, the British Empire [15th century. Via Old French from the medieval Latin stem dominion- , from Latin dominium “property, right of ownership,” from dominus “lord” ] and submissive sub·mis·sive sub·mis·sive [sub míssiv] adj ready to submit to others: giving in or tending to give in to the demands or the authority of others -sub·mis·sive·ly, adv -sub·mis·sive·ness, n This happens in all human interactons, we discuss the repeated tendances, trends of the individuals. Therefore the defining object is BDSM because beyond this context it is ordinary life, the alternative is relational chaos. Superiorty of the lifestyle is that roles are pre-defined, agreed to in terms of sexual relations, and with many in terms of major life choices. With both, open and frank consideration of the alternatives, and their appeal to each party should occur in a calm mannered forum. The issue of D/s set aside for frank consideration, and the actual value of the topic to the relationship weighed, against the continuance of the relationship, calm and orderly a must or end discussion, in which case, time away may be in order b4 continuing D/s. those who seek relations without emotional commitment, find these moments to be an end point, those who love, care will work past any impass, the pure the love the greater the understanding / forgivness. I am fortunate to have this later kind of love in My life.

cjenny -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/2/2007 5:05:19 PM)
Now that was some interesting reading.. but where did the OP go?

AquaticSub -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/2/2007 5:10:12 PM)
I dunno. Maybe she thought we were mean when we called her on her attitude?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/2/2007 5:20:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FalseProfit This happens in all human interactons, we discuss the repeated tendances, trends of the individuals. As always, there's a difference between a relationship which HAS an authority differential, and a relationship which is BASED UPON an authority differential. quote: Superiorty of the lifestyle is that roles are pre-defined, agreed to in terms of sexual relations, and with many in terms of major life choices. Except they really aren't- start any definitions thread and you'll see how undefined those roles are and how every relationship needs to decide for itself what language it will use with what contexts, and how that language often changes over time even within a single relationship.

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