RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference!

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petstorm -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/2/2007 8:34:16 PM)
Nope, she didn't tuck tail and run. She took a break because she has a life outside of the internet and forums. Insult me all you want, it won't change a thing... especially not how i feel about this issue. The main reason for my posting this was because i was reading a forum where someone actually asked why all the comments were about sex. And just for the record, this isn't the only site i cruise forums on. But anyway... the point is THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. It's not like i just woke up one day and said Hey! Let's make it mean this! i spent a great deal of time learning, reading, researching, being trained, and disecting the minds of many people that live both BDSM and D/s. So i know i'm not alone in the way that i have defined the difference here. If someone else feels differently, more power to them. i hope they're as confident in their opinions as i am in mine. And i think it's pretty cool what DistantThunder had to say, especially about the way this lifestyle seems to be evolving. It is pretty cool to be a part of that, and i do have hopes that in my lifetime i will get to see the day when we can stop living so much of it in secret because it's not openly accepted in society. Let's face it, how many people flinch when they hear a girl call her Master... Master. Again, i guess it comes down to a lack of understanding, but maybe one day that too can change. i strongly believe that understanding what you know is far more important than just memorizing details and information. And i hope that anyone who's looking for answers may gain some insight from this thread. Not just what i've come to understand it to be for myself, but from what others have said as well. (Minus the childish insults that some people feel the need to pipe in with) By the way, thanks for posting those website links. i think it's pretty cool that not only can this thread be used for the purpose i entended, but to learn some back dating and origins as well. Open your mind, and your heart will follow. Broaden your understanding, and the world will open up.

AquaticSub -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/2/2007 9:25:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petstorm Nope, she didn't tuck tail and run. She took a break because she has a life outside of the internet and forums. Insult me all you want, it won't change a thing... especially not how i feel about this issue. Actually, nobody insulted you that I can see. You were just called on your bad attitude. Nobody was trying to change your mind. If you go back and read, most people were in general agreement with you. In fact the only problem we had was your "this is the only right way" attitude. Which might mean you should give that some thought. Most people have lives outside this forum, I certainly do. I just believe that when I start threads, I should follow them. And when mutiple people comment on my attitude, perhaps I should rethink how I said something and perhaps even apologize for being a brat. quote: The main reason for my posting this was because i was reading a forum where someone actually asked why all the comments were about sex. And just for the record, this isn't the only site i cruise forums on. But anyway... the point is THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. It's not like i just woke up one day and said Hey! Let's make it mean this! i spent a great deal of time learning, reading, researching, being trained, and disecting the minds of many people that live both BDSM and D/s. So i know i'm not alone in the way that i have defined the difference here. If someone else feels differently, more power to them. i hope they're as confident in their opinions as i am in mine. Like I said, if you'll go back and read the people who posted, a lot of people agreed with you. However, a lot of people also pointed out really good reasons for why they are used interchangably. And no matter how much time you spend learning, telling someone as well versed as LA generally is to "do their homework" is childish. quote: Open your mind, and your heart will follow. Broaden your understanding, and the world will open up. Take your own advice to heart. Your way and your definations are not the only way and the only definations. For that matter, they shouldn't be in a lifestyle so diverse at this.

slaveish -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/3/2007 4:51:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petstorm i realize that i'm young, and to many that means that i couldn't possible understand the things that i do. But if you ever sat down and spoke with me one on one, you'd see for yourself that i have comprehension beyond my years. I could care less how you define BDSM. My only addition to the posts here is that your age is only a handicap in that (a) your hugely high opinion of yourself discounts the thoughts of others and (b) you haven't lived long enough for anyone to knock your attitude down a peg or two. Live well, pet. Learn well. Enjoy life as it comes. You (and your attitude) are right where you need to be today; but realize that you are not the be all / end all in any given situation.

adaddysgirl -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/3/2007 4:56:07 AM)
When i first saw the terms, they were B&D, S&M.....then at some point i started seeing BDSM and assumed it was just the two combined. Then i heard it included D/s in the middle there. But, i specifically know of various couples who share a D/s dynamic but are not at all into BD nor SM.....and some who are into BD and/or SM but not into D/s to any other extent. Seems people are going to use it in the context they so choose, regardless of what anyone else says....so i don't bother arguing the point [8\|] Daddysgirl

petstorm -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/3/2007 10:29:56 AM)
i don't think i have a bad attitude. i think i have confidence in what i know and what i believe. i do follow my postings, and i don't think confidence should be confused with arrogance or attitude. i can tell someone, even as well versed as LA (as you so put it) something different because even those who have lived a very long time sometimes need to be reminded that they aren't always right. From LA: La di da, thanks for being so obviously wrong and OK with acting like you know this universal truth for everyone to see. (Humm... maybe calling the kettle black here? So why wouldn't i point that out?) The fact that many people are in general agreance with me says just as i already knew... that i'm not alone. The fact that others see only black and white and can't see the colors in the world doesn't mean that i'm wrong either. i'm right... because it's me, and how i feel, and what i've come to believe. Just as what someone else believes is what's right for them. If i were saying that my way is the right and only way, i would not have asked how others define the differences themselves. My second posting, where i listed what BDSM stands for may have come across as a know-it-all posting, but i was simply adding something i left off and meant to add. la di da di da... it's called singing. Kinda funny how written word can be given a tone or inflection that it was never actually written in. i'm a brat. i have a sense of humor. i also have a brain and have noticed that the ones who are berating me in this posting for my attitude are also the ones who tend to come across as the know-it-alls in other postings i've read. i don't agree with everything YOU have to say, but i accept it as what you believe. i don't go and tell you that you're wrong, even when you yourselves come across as pompous fools to my eyes. Open your minds, and accept that there is no right or wrong in this lifestyle (as long as it's kept safe, sane and consensual). i'll say no more on this matter, so go ahead and beat a dead bush girls if you so choose. For those of you who want to learn more about the philosophies and beliefs that i've come know in my journey, feel free to email me.

AquaticSub -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/3/2007 11:04:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petstorm i don't think i have a bad attitude. i think i have confidence in what i know and what i believe. i do follow my postings, and i don't think confidence should be confused with arrogance or attitude. i can tell someone, even as well versed as LA (as you so put it) something different because even those who have lived a very long time sometimes need to be reminded that they aren't always right. From LA: La di da, thanks for being so obviously wrong and OK with acting like you know this universal truth for everyone to see. (Humm... maybe calling the kettle black here? So why wouldn't i point that out?) The fact that many people are in general agreance with me says just as i already knew... that i'm not alone. The fact that others see only black and white and can't see the colors in the world doesn't mean that i'm wrong either. i'm right... because it's me, and how i feel, and what i've come to believe. Just as what someone else believes is what's right for them. So when mutiple people agree with your point of view, they are right but when mutiple people tell you that you are acting like a child they are wrong? Dang I wish everything worked out that nicely for me. quote: If i were saying that my way is the right and only way, i would not have asked how others define the differences themselves. My second posting, where i listed what BDSM stands for may have come across as a know-it-all posting, but i was simply adding something i left off and meant to add. la di da di da... it's called singing. Kinda funny how written word can be given a tone or inflection that it was never actually written in. i'm a brat. i have a sense of humor. i also have a brain and have noticed that the ones who are berating me in this posting for my attitude are also the ones who tend to come across as the know-it-alls in other postings i've read. i don't agree with everything YOU have to say, but i accept it as what you believe. i don't go and tell you that you're wrong, even when you yourselves come across as pompous fools to my eyes. If you tell me I'm acting like a brat, I'll consider what you have to say. When you and mutiple others tell me I'm acting like a brat, I'll really consider it. In fact, I have apologized for bad behavior when it was brought to my attention. quote: Open your minds, and accept that there is no right or wrong in this lifestyle (as long as it's kept safe, sane and consensual). i'll say no more on this matter, so go ahead and beat a dead bush girls if you so choose. For those of you who want to learn more about the philosophies and beliefs that i've come know in my journey, feel free to email me. You probably know a lot but you are so unthinkingly hard in your conviction that you remind me too much of the college students I have to deal with every day. There couldn't possibly be a better, more polite and more reasonable way to say anything then the way you said it. Obviously you have no room for improvement and I do. I can't learn from perfection because I won't achieve it, being only human.

OsideGirl -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/3/2007 2:26:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petstorm La di da... for those wondering what BDSM actually stands for it is: B/D – Bondage/Discipline, D/s – Dominant/submissive, S/M - Sado/Masochism Actually, the original meaning was Bondage/discipline/sado-masochism. Your definition is actually something recent. The reality is that you can engage in BDSM and not engage in D/s, so I feel that adding D/s into it is incorrect.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/4/2007 11:37:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petstorm From LA: La di da, thanks for being so obviously wrong and OK with acting like you know this universal truth for everyone to see. (Humm... maybe calling the kettle black here? So why wouldn't i point that out?) Hmm I thought it would be obvious that I was mocking you in an attempt to show my derision. I wasn't saying I had the answer- you are. I said and continue to say "This is how I use it, other people use it in different ways, there is NO universal accepted definition."

naiverose -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/4/2007 2:25:18 PM)
Can i say something? Again i see another pointless argument brewing up. D/s, BDSM, M/s, etc whatever term Y/you use for Y/your lifestyle is simply that alone. Y/you define it by Y/your own standards and the way Y/you live it. There is no right or wrong, and for those of Y/you who live it differently and try to claim fakes, the only O/ones who are fake are those who come here and pretend to be in a certain aspect of the lifestyle to get the very vanilla sex. E/everyone has T/their own fetishes, etc. E/everyone believes there is a proper way to be Owned or Dominated, to own another or be submitted to. Dominant males Dominant females, submissive males, submissive females, have existed for ages, the terms have always existed, and in a sense these only explain a person's demeanor. With my husband i have a very Dominant demeanor, but thats because of who he is and yet for myself in the lifestyle, i am a very obediant little slave, for whom seeks to be trained by a Master. Tops/Bottoms, these labels are simply that. Y/you simply have to find that O/one who matches Y/you in opinions, and so on. Therefore, O/one's knowledge (refering to the person who started this thread) is actually an opinion rather than a fact. i have also read and studied since i was so very young, and nothing is 100% the same definition, and to this day i still don't have a steady opinion on who's who and whats what, because of the fact that i am very open-minded and willing to accept any and all opinions of what things are, and still hold my own without causing a quarrel amongst another group of people who see things differently.

MiladyElaine -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/4/2007 4:28:38 PM)
I agree, it certainly can get confusing, especially when a sub comes along calling what W/we are currently calling D/s, M/s! he wasn't a masochist, he was referring to Mistress/sub...I told him to stop calling it that, but it had gotten to be a habit that wasn't going to be broken by Me because W/we parted ways. It wasn't the only reason, but it did get on My nerves.

NControlofU -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/5/2007 5:53:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: petstorm La di da... for those wondering what BDSM actually stands for it is: B/D – Bondage/Discipline, D/s – Dominant/submissive, S/M - Sado/Masochism Actually, the original meaning was Bondage/discipline/sado-masochism. Your definition is actually something recent. The reality is that you can engage in BDSM and not engage in D/s, so I feel that adding D/s into it is incorrect. Yoy are right, OsideGirl. There seems to be a lot of misconception out here about what BDSM means and some people want to change the meaning to fit whatever it is that they happen to do. But, the initials, BDSM, is a combination of B&D, for Bondage & Discipline, and SM, for sadomasochism. It's as simple as that. People who want to rearrange the letters or change their meanings so that DS stands for Dominance/submission or turn SM into MS to stand for Master/slave might as well drop the D & the M all together, because all that they are left with is BS. The term BDSM goes back to at least the early '60. Read The Velvet Underground by Michael Leigh, a classic documentary on the sexual depravity of the "Swinging" movement of the 1960's: wife-swapping, nudism, mailorder sex paraphernalia, clothing fetishes, prostitution, homosexuality, bestiality, and BDSM. It probably goes back even further than that. SM, sadomasochism, has been around for a very, very long time. The most common and the most significant of all the perversions -- the desire to inflict pain upon the sexual object, and its reverse -- received from Krafft-Ebbing the names of "Sadism" and "Masochism" for its active and passive forms respectively. --Sigmund Freud, "Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality," 1905 Sadism [and masochism] is not a name finally given to a practice as old as Eros; it is a massive cultural fact which appeared precisely at the end of the eighteenth century, and which constitutes one of the greatest conversions of Western imagination: unreason transformed into delirium of the heart, madness of desire, the insane dialogue of love and death in the limitless presumption of appetite." --Michel Foucault, Madness and Civilization What happened between 1740 [The publication of Pamela] and 1840 [birth of Krafft-Ebing] to cause such a proliferation of sexual deviations? The answer is that human beings learned to use the imagination far more than in previous centuries. They learned to day-dream. --Colin Wilson quoted from The Misfits

Artsslave -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/5/2007 7:28:51 AM)
That's odd. According to the History of Sex recently played on the History channel (what a girl will watch when she can't sleep!) D/s or Domination/submission can be traced all the way back to the Egyptians, which to my understanding was an attempt to bring some semblence of order and peace after 50 years of war and people being so promiscuous. (There's a tale about a man from another place coming because a man with an eye illness needed the urine of a virgin and one couldn't be found! Actually, there's no egyptian word FOR virgin, but that's another matter.) Anyway, these things have been around basically since the beginning of time and defined by the characteristics of the people, and their willingness to not only explore their sexuality but spirituality as well. (Maybe some proof that D/s and BDSM are two different things?) For them it was about pleasure and being able to connect not only with each other but their supposed gods as well. Although it's been facinating getting a history lesson (thanks for the links earlier) i have to wonder if maybe everyone here isn't wrong about when it first came about and what it originally meant. Different languages always translate into different words, so you lose some of the meaning in the translation. Also, if there can't be a general overall opinion on terms, definitions, and discriptions, how can anyone come into the lifestyle new and learn anything without their head exploding in confusion?

AquaticSub -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/5/2007 12:52:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Artsslave Also, if there can't be a general overall opinion on terms, definitions, and discriptions, how can anyone come into the lifestyle new and learn anything without their head exploding in confusion? There is a general overall opinion. However, because it's a general opinion the specfics vary from person to person. When I was first learning, I listened to the opinions and the facts presented by many different people and came to my own conclusions. BDSM is not the easiest thing in the world. Shrug

sleazy -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/5/2007 4:01:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NControlofU Sadism [and masochism] is not a name finally given to a practice as old as Eros; it is a massive cultural fact which appeared precisely at the end of the eighteenth century, and which constitutes one of the greatest conversions of Western imagination: unreason transformed into delirium of the heart, madness of desire, the insane dialogue of love and death in the limitless presumption of appetite." --Michel Foucault, Madness and Civilization What happened between 1740 [The publication of Pamela] and 1840 [birth of Krafft-Ebing] to cause such a proliferation of sexual deviations? The answer is that human beings learned to use the imagination far more than in previous centuries. They learned to day-dream. --Colin Wilson quoted from The Misfits Sorry, but I am not at all convinced about this statement, I cannot believe in all seriousness that there was never, as an example, a roman vineyard keeper who didnt get a hard on when whipping a slave. Perhaps you may wish to go back to an earlier post of mine and look at http://www.datenschlag.org/english/dachs/dachs_english.pdf you don't have to read far into it, the second entry dated 1376BC alone is in direct contradiction you stance that sadism is a relatively new concept, the word is but not the act.

NControlofU -> RE: D/s and BDSM: There's a difference! (3/5/2007 4:28:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sleazy quote: ORIGINAL: NControlofU Sadism [and masochism] is not a name finally given to a practice as old as Eros; it is a massive cultural fact which appeared precisely at the end of the eighteenth century, and which constitutes one of the greatest conversions of Western imagination: unreason transformed into delirium of the heart, madness of desire, the insane dialogue of love and death in the limitless presumption of appetite." --Michel Foucault, Madness and Civilization What happened between 1740 [The publication of Pamela] and 1840 [birth of Krafft-Ebing] to cause such a proliferation of sexual deviations? The answer is that human beings learned to use the imagination far more than in previous centuries. They learned to day-dream. --Colin Wilson quoted from The Misfits Sorry, but I am not at all convinced about this statement, I cannot believe in all seriousness that there was never, as an example, a roman vineyard keeper who didnt get a hard on when whipping a slave. Perhaps you may wish to go back to an earlier post of mine and look at http://www.datenschlag.org/english/dachs/dachs_english.pdf you don't have to read far into it, the second entry dated 1376BC alone is in direct contradiction you stance that sadism is a relatively new concept, the word is but not the act. No disagreement from me. Just giving examples of the fact that the term BDSM wasn't invented in the 1980's as some here have stated. I have no doubt that it goes way back in history.

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