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RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 7:24:55 AM

bearincuffs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Okay how about if we turn the questions around, to anyone who would care to comment.

Is a dom/master/mistress a dom/master/mistress without a sub/slave?

Is there a really a benefit to having experience as a dom, remembering that we are all limited by our own experience?

It is my own opinion and thoughts that yes a person can be a dom/master/mistress even without having a sub/slave. Much of being who they are and the same applies to a sub/slave. Since part of being who we are is in the mindset we have. It's through having a sub/slave that a dom/master/mistress gains the experience to strengthen their minset to be more of what they are. And yes this is a benefit, because without experience, they are not able to be fully true to themselves.
IMO, in the beginning, we started off with just an idea of who we are, as we go through life we gain the experience and the knowledge to make ourselves more of who we we are and should be.

_____________________________

property of Master Dave of the House of Gemini

An it harm none, do as thou wilt
Do what you will, so long as it harms none
An it harm none, do what thou will
That it harm none, do as thou wilt
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 41

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 8:50:51 AM

SlyStone

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From: Chicago
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If it is who you are, then it's always there just not being utilized for some reason or another.

But how can it be who you are if it is not how you live? Maybe it is who you want to be or who you wish you were or who you can be if you are in a relationship of some kind, but I do not see how it is who you are if it is not what you are, and it is not what you are unless you are doing it.

Obviously there is no right or wrong answer. Personally I think that a "dominant" and I am talking about the label or self identification not the man or women, without a submissive, is no different than the proverbial tree falling in the silent forest,it may make a sound but is it of any consequence if no one can hear it?

I bring this up because I was thinking about the whole cyber phone vs real time meeting controversy. The question being, can someone dominant and or serve via cyber or phone or does it lack reality?

My opinion has always been no way, to ridiculous to contemplate. But than I am thinking that if someone acts like a dom or sub and forms some kind of dom/sub dynamic with the opposite, than how is it not real?

If people are able to effect each other, through whatever means, how is it not a valid relationship? And while it is not something I would seek to engage in because it lacks dimension, in a way it is little different from a dom/sub couple who meet only monthly or on occasion, because that lacks dimension as well. In fact most relationships are lacking in some way, we all compensate and adjust.

By this logic if we stretched it very very thin, one could even argue that a dom or sub engaged in either a cyber or phone relationship in which the dynamics of power exchange are in place, are more real than any dom or sub without a submissive or master.

I guess it all depends on one's definitions of the labels and one's perception of reality :)

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to sublizzie)

Post #: 42

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 11:27:43 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If it is who you are, then it's always there just not being utilized for some reason or another.

But how can it be who you are if it is not how you live?

Some people do not yet know their true nature and therefore are not living according to who they are. I am a musician at heart. I began playing the piano by ear at the age of 4. Yet early in my life I stopped persuing that interest (regretfully) and did not develop those skills. Does that remove my talent? Does that mean if I sat down at a piano again I wouldn't be able to re-learn what I lost? I am still a musician at heart; even though I do not live as one.

quote:

I bring this up because I was thinking about the whole cyber phone vs real time meeting controversy. The question being, can someone dominant and or serve via cyber or phone or does it lack reality?

I have gotten to know people from this site and others, through emails, IM, and telephone. Some of these conversations have had great depth. I have absolutely been affected by these developing relationships. Are they not real? I consider them very real. And while they may lack the dimmension that knowing someone face to face may provide, I do not consider them to be "cyber" relationships - that would cheapen them somehow. I am moved by the conversations shared - touched by them, and feel they have contributed to me as an individual as a result.

So who's to say it can not be done, at least to a certain degree? I would never make that judgement for someone else.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 43

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 2:03:23 PM

SlyStone

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From: Chicago
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Some people do not yet know their true nature and therefore are not living according to who they are. I am a musician at heart. I began playing the piano by ear at the age of 4. Yet early in my life I stopped persuing that interest (regretfully) and did not develop those skills. Does that remove my talent? Does that mean if I sat down at a piano again I wouldn't be able to re-learn what I lost? I am still a musician at heart; even though I do not live as one.

I see what you are saying and again there is no right answer here.

But I think it is comparing apples and oranges. You are a musician because you have the ability to play, whether or not your use those skills. Just as one might be a teacher with or without a student, because the ability is there. We can test and evaluate those skills and by yourself, through study, you can become better at them.

I don't particularly think being dominant or submissive is a talent or a skill and while one could argue that a good dominant is skilled in using certain tools, or a good submissive is skilled at certain behaviors, and that would be true, I think in the end we are talking about an outward expression or our self and how we feel and what excites us and how we relate to the other side of the equation.

And so unless you feel that being dominant or submissive in the d/s bdsm context is a state of being, rather than an expression of self, it cannot exist in a vacuum. It needs to be expressed to be real.

Just my perspective.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 44

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 2:17:24 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone
And so unless you feel that being dominant or submissive in the d/s bdsm context is a state of being, rather than an expression of self, it cannot exist in a vacuum. It needs to be expressed to be real.

Just my perspective.

I appreciate your perspective. My submission is my state of being. However, I have been trained to obtain the skills to most adequately reflect this for myself.

Is your mind twisted yet?

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 45

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 2:42:41 PM

SlyStone

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From: Chicago
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Is your mind twisted yet?

Like a spring :)

So let me see if I can return the favor.

If to be is to exist and if you exist to submit, than without submitting do you cease to exist?

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 46

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 4:57:43 PM

gypsygrl

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From: new york state
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quote:

Just as one might be a teacher with or without a student, because the ability is there. We can test and evaluate those skills and by yourself, through study, you can become better at them.

When thinking about whether or not one can be a Master without an s, I do compare it with my status as a teacher. I generally consider myself to be someone who teaches when I can get the work, and never describe myself as a Teacher when I tell people what I do because to do so would be to be misleading. To say I'm a teacher would be to imply that I'm working full time with a decent income. I'm not working full time, and I don't have a decent income. To describe myself as a Teacher would be to exaggerate my status. More than this, while I have passed the exams that qualify me to teach in my field, I'm convinced that my skills at teaching are generally something only my particular students can judge. Some classes go exceptionally well, and other classes, even with the same material, go horrid. Each class has its own personality, so to speak, and sometimes I can work with it, other times I just muddle along. My knowledge of the material and specific pedagogical techniques are only a couple factors that go into my ability to teach any given group of students. Finally, while technically I'm a teacher or instructor because that's how our educational system tends to be structured, deep in my heart, I know the best I can do is facilitate learning. When I forget that, and start teaching, everything tends to go to hell. So, I'm not a teacher at all.

So, when I think of someone who refers to themselves as a Master, I always think "Master of what?" One answer could be "Master of a specific craft" such as flogging (No, it hasn't been my experience that any monkey can learn to weild a flogger. Some monkeies are really bad at it and I've had the misfortune to have been at the receiving end bad flogging.) or whips or even excecuting a certain kind of scene. This makes sense to me. But, ususally the term Master is meant to apply to s's. In which case, I would expect that the person referring to himself as such has had some actuall experience (I do think its possible to be a cyber Master) Mastering specific s's. If he had never done any actual mastering, I would think he's exaggerating his status.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 47

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 5:13:44 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Is your mind twisted yet?

Like a spring :)

So let me see if I can return the favor.

If to be is to exist and if you exist to submit, than without submitting do you cease to exist?

I would cease to exist in any form that would satisfy my soul.

How's that?

I'm starting to feel like a Slinky, how 'bout you?!

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 48

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 5:25:18 PM

sublizzie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone
If to be is to exist and if you exist to submit, than without submitting do you cease to exist?

No matter what my relationship, I submit. It is an essential part of who I am. It doesn't matter if I'm in my work place, parenting my UMs, or with a D/s group, I'm going to be submissive to the other person's needs.

I do not currently have a dominant. Does that mean I'm not submissive? No. It's not some skill set for me; it's a major facet of who I am. I understand that for some people this is a role they play. That's fine. For me, it's not a role or set of skills.

Just my thoughts....

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 49

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 6:07:13 PM

SlyStone

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From: Chicago
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I'm starting to feel like a Slinky, how 'bout you?!

Okay time out for a new question.

If you were to race two slinkys down the stairs which will always win the race, the smaller or the larger, and don't use google.

ps

I actually know the answer which has to qualify me for some kind of geek of the week award for sure.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 50

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 6:13:51 PM

ownedgirlie

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Bah...LOL at your own thread hijack.

The smaller one will win, much to everyone's surprise. Has to do with the energy in the smaller coils. I didn't look it up - I've been tricked by this trick before, lol.

Can I be co-geek....or...geekette?

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 3/4/2007 6:14:22 PM >

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 51

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 6:43:28 PM

SlyStone

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Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline

Bah...LOL at your own thread hijack.

Not a hijack, a short scenic detour off the twisted path.

The smaller one will win, much to everyone's surprise. Has to do with the energy in the smaller coils. I didn't look it up - I've been tricked by this trick before, lol.

Okay, now you are starting to really irritate me.

Can I be co-geek....or...geekette?

Geekette's are always in high demand especially if they are hot and kinky so the answer is................ oh yeah :)

< Message edited by SlyStone -- 3/4/2007 6:44:10 PM >

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 52

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 6:49:20 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Bah...LOL at your own thread hijack.

Not a hijack, a short scenic detour off the twisted path.

I love scenic routes - cool!

quote:

The smaller one will win, much to everyone's surprise. Has to do with the energy in the smaller coils. I didn't look it up - I've been tricked by this trick before, lol.

Okay, now you are starting to really irritate me.

I'm sure you said this fondly, lol.

quote:

Can I be co-geek....or...geekette?

Geekette's are always in high demand especially if they are hot and kinky so the answer is................ oh yeah :)

Yay!! Always aspired to reach hot-kinky-geekette status!

Nothing like a little kinky slinky play, eh? That could be a little...um...twisted.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 53

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 8:57:25 PM

chrissyslave

Posts: 95
Joined: 1/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Can I be co-geek....or...geekette?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Geekette's are always in high demand especially if they are hot and kinky so the answer is................ oh yeah :)

Yay!! Always aspired to reach hot-kinky-geekette status!

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone
Nothing like a little kinky slinky play, eh? That could be a little...um...twisted.

One thing I read about slinky's, is that they serve no purpose, other than they they are amusing to push down the stairs by watching them "slink." (to steal and paraphrase someones's observations posted somewhere on this site recently...and yes in a twisted fashion).

By comparision, and in due context of this topic, is a slave more than a sub, if in fact they are not "slaving" at the time?...just as a master (or teacher...still an educator?) if not performing their activities to which that title qualifies them to perform? Is a car a "vehicle" if it is not currently moving?...or a cat not so if it is not doing cat-like activities? Bottom line is a "slave" or a "master" a verb or a noun?...an "activity" or a "status" regardless of being in the process of "doing?"

Perhaps...just perhaps we can be submissive and dominants without a relationship in which to express our beings, but being a "slave" and "master" is about an ongoing relationship, which is why I express myself as a sub desiring as being a slave, and not yet one. And yet there may be slaves who are one but not desiring to be one (referring to the "grandmother" with a dominant husband she was given to for consideration in another recent thread...more out of tradition than our consentual forms here).

So claims to be a "slinky" (noun) is fine, but unless you are "slinking" (verb) in context to a stairs (dominant) then you are merely potential not realized at the moment. And to push this analogy further, a sub under consideration to be a slave is merely a sub who is picked up after a few slinky steps down, returned to the top step to be pushed down again in testing by another "slinker." When the pusher/Dom, and slinky/sub decide they "slink" together well enough then they have a slinking relationship-M/s that is of value to themselves, even if not to anyone else observing their slinky activities...or is that slinky/slutty activities....I keep forgetting!

Please forgive my intrustion into this interesting exhange but the previous comparision overcame my reluctance to interject here. and apparently according to the science already expressed in this thread, the degree of "slinking" is in indirect proportion to "size" and that might also be of correlation to what has been shared in some other topics on CM as well.

Now to slink back to my corner of observation ("semi self-slinky" in training),

chrissy-slave(...to be)

_____________________________

Healthy living, diet and exercise...and you say that's a bad thing?!!

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 54

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/4/2007 9:09:21 PM

SlyStone

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From: Chicago
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I'm sure you said this fondly, lol.

Are you sure??

Just kidding, Of course you are right. I like smart people and I love smart women, so yeah I meant it fondly.

Back to the subject at hand :)

my question:

If to be is to exist and if you exist to submit, than without submitting, do you cease to exist?

your answer:

I would cease to exist in any form that would satisfy my soul.

It's a pretty good answer, I don't necessarily understand it, but it's still pretty good :)

From my perspective, being dominant is an expression of my self and since I have many facets, if I have to I could easily go on without expressing this one part of me. I would prefer not to, but I could.

I think when someone says that they cannot live satisfied without doing something or being something, they are limiting themselves and setting themselves up for disappointment because odds are that at some point, for whatever reason, they will no longer be able to do it or be it.

The hands of a concert violinist who lives to play will eventually become arthritic and useless and the greatest athlete will always grow old before his or her time and parents have to let their children go and start new lives.

People suffer loss and injury to their soul all the time and go on and find new ways to satisfy it. Lovers and friends die, people disappoint and hurt us, and at times our past haunts our present and our future seems unbearable, but we persevere and we survive,

If we don't place limits on our possibilities as human beings.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 55

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/5/2007 7:56:32 AM

ownedgirlie

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SlyStone:

I tried for years to deny my need to submit. It left me wilted to live that way. Denying my need to submit was denying a sacred part of myself that must be expressed. Not expressing it would mean stifling my core. I can't really explain it - this is who I am. I agree - we do persevere and survive when life slams us (God knows I've had my share). But my submission was my driving need from as far back as I can remember. To deny it would simply leave a gaping hole in my being. I know this from experience. A substitution for being true to oneself is not nearly as filling as being true to oneself.

What I'm talking about is different than recognizing I am submissive and not having someone to submit to, for example. It's about stifling the fact that I am submissive in the first place. I can no longer do that any more than I can stifle the fact that I am a girl, or that I need my friends and family in my life (had to go without them for a long time, too). There are certain parts of a person that they just can't compromise.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 56

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/5/2007 5:14:15 PM

SlyStone

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Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
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I tried for years to deny my need to submit. It left me wilted to live that way. Denying my need to submit was denying a sacred part of myself that must be expressed. Not expressing it would mean stifling my core. I can't really explain it - this is who I am.

It is your perspective and clearly it is consistent with how you live your life, and that is all that really matters. There was a time, not so long ago, when I used to be very aggressive with my viewpoint, not so much here, but in my real life, but here as well.

I no longer feel the need to do that, not sure why, maybe I am just mellowing out with age or maybe I have come to realize that people can hold an entirely different view of the world from my own and that does not threaten me, and perhaps it can enrich me.

Not to say that I am entirely cured or totally accepting :) I still cannot accept someone who says something totally absurd like george bush is a great president, or some such utterance that goes beyond MY conception of reality, because after all we all have limits, right?

But I have learned that there is nothing to come from engaging them, and it is best not to try. I do, however, reserve the right to make fun of them, just cause it's so much fun to do :)

But on the whole, if you are not harming anyone by living a certain way, or see the world from a totally different perspective than mine, I have learned to accept, or I am in the evolving process of learning to accept, that that is life, and to do my best to understand and learn where you are coming from.

So I appreciate your thoughts and hope you always find a way to express who you are in a way that fulfills you.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 57

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/5/2007 5:53:29 PM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

From my perspective, being dominant is an expression of my self and since I have many facets, if I have to I could easily go on without expressing this one part of me. I would prefer not to, but I could.

I think when someone says that they cannot live satisfied without doing something or being something, they are limiting themselves and setting themselves up for disappointment because odds are that at some point, for whatever reason, they will no longer be able to do it or be it.

The hands of a concert violinist who lives to play will eventually become arthritic and useless and the greatest athlete will always grow old before his or her time and parents have to let their children go and start new lives.

People suffer loss and injury to their soul all the time and go on and find new ways to satisfy it. Lovers and friends die, people disappoint and hurt us, and at times our past haunts our present and our future seems unbearable, but we persevere and we survive,

If we don't place limits on our possibilities as human beings.

i think there's a big difference between living a fulfilling life....and just all out survival.

As is stands right now, i have a need to submit to a partner. That is what i would find fulfilling. Could i get by with a vanilla partner and no D/s? Sure, i will live....but i wouldn't be fulfilled....i wouldn't be content with my life....and i would feel like something is missing (much like it has felt most of my life in a vanilla relationship).

So i have made a choice. i don't date vanilla because that is not an acceptable relationship to me at this time. i would rather be alone. Now 20 years down the line...when i'm an old coot (lol), perhaps i will feel differently and seek out a different type of relationship rather than be alone. i really don't know.

You said:

From my perspective, being dominant is an expression of my self and since I have many facets, if I have to I could easily go on without expressing this one part of me. I would prefer not to, but I could.

Again, i could survive not submitting but not only do i prefer not to, but i prefer to be alone rather than engage the alternative.

If i had a partner who could no longer be sexual, could i live the rest of my life with no sex? Could...but most likely would not. i still have that need and living with less (particularly for the duration of my life) would not be acceptable to me. Again, sure, i could survive....but i wouldn't be fulfilled....so why bother? i seek more out of life than mere survival.

i have already told my kids....when the time comes that all i can do is lay in a bed all day....unable to get up....not realizing what the hell is going on around me...living off medications or tubes.....call Dr Kevorkian because i have no desire to live that way.

Sometimes people 'cannot live satisfied without doing something or being something'.....yes, they can survive, they can get by.....but for me, i am going for the gusto of fulfillment and satisfaction. And until then....yes....i will get by.....but to me, there's much more to life than that.

DG

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 58

RE: We are What We Say We Are? - 3/5/2007 5:59:58 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

But on the whole, if you are not harming anyone by living a certain way, or see the world from a totally different perspective than mine, I have learned to accept, or I am in the evolving process of learning to accept, that that is life, and to do my best to understand and learn where you are coming from.

Growth is an amazing thing, isn't it :) I have come to feel the same, regarding accepting those who think differently from me. Lord knows I don't want clones of me running around, lol. I have appreciated the conversation and sharing of thoughts. Thank you for that.

quote:

So I appreciate your thoughts and hope you always find a way to express who you are in a way that fulfills you.

This was a very kind thing to say, and I thank you for it. I hope the same for you as well.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 59

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