The control of money (Full Version)

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SirKenin -> The control of money (3/24/2005 6:04:15 PM)

This is one situation I'm not entirely sure on. My girl and I are going to be moving in together in another month or two (I know, sounds crazy, but W/we have our reasons). W/we each have our own incomes that W/we are going to have to manage. Both of U/us can be frugal when W/we need to be, although I have been well known for spending thousands of dollars on a mere whim (My Cadillac was bought on impulse, for instance). For now frugal looks like the name of the game.

My question is who should have control? Is it proper to rest this on My sub, or Myself? Should I expect to share control? Is that something a good 24/7 D/s relationship does? W/we are still in the training process right now, but it struck Me that now is the right time to think about this. Although it isn't going to be a total power exchange, it's going to be pretty close by the looks of things. In other words I'm not going to be given control over everything, but most things. W/we have spent hours and hours talking about it. Is there any reason why W/we CAN'T share control of the finances? Is there any set way to do this? The situation mandates that it is managed in some way for sure, but how? Let each manage their own and hope for the best? Managing finances properly is SOO important for every couple. I know this, that's why I'm spending so much time thinking about it.

It may seem like an easy question to some and I eagerly await your responses, but it isn't an easy question to Me, perhaps because My head is in such a fog from being inundated with such a huge amount of data. Thank Y/you in advance for any help.

[image]local://upfiles/60308/7F3113F5015A4917994133F69BFFD501.jpg[/image]



stormsfate -> RE: The control of money (3/24/2005 6:27:36 PM)

quote:

My question is who should have control?


Who's better at it? If your submissive has consistently shown that she manages money better than you believe you do, then why wouldn't you utilize that? If you are better at it...then you should do it. Or you could keep separate accounts and each contribute according to income towards the bills. Really you two are the only ones who can decide what will work best for your situation.

My owner is by far better at money matters than I am. I sign my paycheck and hand it over...lol.

Congratulations, btw :) I hope you are both very happy together.


best regards,
f



domtimothy46176 -> RE: The control of money (3/24/2005 6:53:06 PM)

I've done it all three ways successfully. I am perfectly capable of rigorous budgeting and do it now for both my girl and myself. In the past I've tasked her with budgeting while I was unable to attend to it myself and still allow her to budget her own "account" for household expenses. In a past marriage, the wife and I sat down every week and fine-tuned how to allocate funds. If working under a shared-management approach, I do recommend bringing all of the expenses, both joint and individual into the picture. I found it to be very helpful to have all of the cards on the table. I have also found ledgers or other written records of what's coming in and what's going out to be a great tool in budgeting, in general.
Not sure if that answers the question you're asking, but best of luck, in any case.
Timothy



chainedgirl -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 5:01:38 AM)

i think stormsfate hit the nail on the head. Total Power Exchange is all fine and good, but it doesn't work for everyone in reality. At the end of the day, this relationship is between You and your sub, it has to be what works best for the both of Y/you and no-one else can tell Y/you what that is.

So who is better at handling the money? That is really all You need to ask Yourself here. If neither of Y/you wants to have complete control over this issue, then Y/you could decide to have 3 bank accounts, Yours, mine, O/ours. Each pay, put a set amount of money into the O/ours account and that is used to pay rent, bills, food, etc. Then Y/you can each have control over Y/your own separate accounts. Y/you might like to have 2 O/our accounts, one for the expenses listed above and another to save for little luxuries, new appliances, holidays, a house, etc.

chainedgirl



nella -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 5:20:39 AM)

i agree whit most here, if she is better at money things than you, use her for that. If your are better, you do it insead. It is a littel dificult to understand your situation becouse the information is not werry covering. For exampel, if you are rich, buing a cadliac on a whim is just fine, i by books, RPG games, ritual equipment and such on a whim, but if buying that car nearly ruind your economy, it was a sign of that perhaps she is better at it.

One more thing to consider, when you live alone and are just your own man, you can do cracy things like living on porrige for half a year to get the car you want, but once you get a sub, there is somone else that are dependent on you. And the more power is echanged, the more reposiblity is exhanced as well, and your freedom of economics is no longer that grate.



Archer -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 5:28:36 AM)

Having the task of managing the finances is nothing new for a slave to do, Many Roman estates were managed completely by owned slaves for their masters.

As with anything else you really have to make up your own mind about how things will go in your home. But if you are looking for precident now you have it.

My slave manages the house finances for me, she's better at it and I'd be foolish not to use her skills to my best advantage.
That said I always have the option of over ruling her decissions, of redirecting the house priorities, or of reining in her spending if I feel it's getting out of hand.




CitizenCane -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 9:00:59 AM)

Managing money and controlling it aren't the same thing. Of course, the dishonest can seize control of money they are merely supposed to manage, but that only underscores the difference. I see no contradiction in having a submissive manage a doms money, but I think that 'control' of money in D/s relationship can't really be seperated from 'control' of everything else. Whatever arrangement of control you have for other matters is probably the right basic model for finances.




SirKenin -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 1:30:49 PM)

I think I'm lost here. [:(]

If I'm getting this right, control and fiscal management are two separate things. How does this work? Does that mean I exercise control by giving her the reigns to fiscal management? Or does control not even enter the picture here? I just don't get it. *sigh*

I do follow the concept that slaves were given the responsibility of management. I could always follow that and be safe if she was good at it I guess. That car wasn't the only example of how I spend money I'm afraid. There have been other cars. Convertibles. Mini vacations. Computers. Stereo. Big screen TV. Aquarium. It's almost shameful. [&o] The problem is now W/we can't do that. W/we have new priorities now. I have to look after My sub and the household expenses first and foremost. There are house expenses, moving expenses, bills, any car repairs, gas and insurance, the list goes on and on. Although I can be frugal at times, I'm not sure I can do that effectively over the long haul. I get in these moods where I'm all too tempted to buy things. How embarassing to have to admit but I guess everyone has their achilles heal. I want to do this responsibly now. When I was single that was one thing. Now however...

So you are saying it is ok to give her the responsibility to manage the finances. I can do that. Again I want to ask how the control thing comes into play or does it? That's where I'm really lost.

W/we will compile the expenses as suggested. I don't know if either one of U/us can keep a ledger, but certainly that is something My dad has suggested to Me in the past as well and he does very well for himself.

I REALLY like that idea of three bank accounts for sure. What a great idea. she can be responsible for managing the finances that are in the joint account and in her account. Very clever idea actually. I am going to steal that I think.

Also about total power exchange, I don't want to take on all that responsibility and she wouldn't feel comfortable in that environment. W/we decided that a partial power exchange 24/7 would work for U/us. W/we started slowly and have just worked O/our way up. So far so good though.

And thank you stormsfate. So far W/we are really happy. It's almost hard to believe how well things are going. She's a sweetie. Very loving, compassionate, understanding, submissive, etc. I just hope this keeps up because so far she's proven to be an excellent match.



CitizenCane -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 2:23:19 PM)

Well, what I mean by control is the power to make the final decision about something. If you put money in the bank, the bank has possession of it, but very limited control- you're entitled to withdraw it pretty much any time during banking hours. A sub managing money is like that bank- she may handle the transactions, but she doesn't decide what the transactions are ( I count delegating this responsibility to the sub as a form of control, as long as the delegation can be rescinded). If an asset is in the dom's name, then they control that asset legally, even if the sub does the day to day management. Furthermore, if the dom is in a meaningful sense in control of the sub, then the dom controls the sub's assets as well. It doesn't matter if subx legally owns a car if she's committed to sell it at her Master's command. So, there are a number of different kinds and levels of control a dom might have over both his own and his sub's assets.




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 3:21:46 PM)

The terms we're working with here are delegation and authority. Think of her as your personal assistant and accountant. They are there to provide a service to YOU, to help you manage things better, which not only frees your time, but also allows her to serve.

Now, the personal assistant is the one in charge of making all the reservations, all the timings, making sure everything is provided for. So, she's in control. But what's driving every decision? Your preferences. You still have "final say."

For example, the Owner chose to go to Black Rose this year. I made every single arrangment, every single logistic decision. He didn't see a single paper or worry about a single detail until the day before the event. Therefore, he got to go to a fabulous event, I got to provide service to him, and he didn't have to think about anything.

It's a service to provide, nothing different than her washing the clothes.

A lot of doms have trouble getting past the "traditional" ds situation, but trust me, delegating things to the sub is one of the best parts about being the dom.



nella -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 4:58:26 PM)

i do not mean to be rude. But if you need to get an ok from us at this forum before doing somthing whit such a relationship, perhaps you should not move in together just yet. i do not say this to be rude, but it seam to me, and i might be wrong that you are looking for comformation that what you are doing is right.

There is no right and wrong in D/s, you do it the way that fit you the best. If it fit you and her relationship that she handel the money, do that, if it fit you and her that you do it, or you both do, then do that, you dont need comfirmation from alot of pepole online to tell you your actions are corect.



SirKenin -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 6:21:55 PM)

No nella. I'm not looking for an Ok. Please don't misunderstand Me. What I am trying to get here are the appropriate ways in which to proceed, and I'm starting to get a good idea as I read through your posts as to what I'm going to do.

It's just that I was lost. Please understand just how much is on My mind right now. It's staggering and overwhelming. Sometimes you just have to get outside opinions to help you set the issues straight. As such I am so very grateful for all the input in this thread. I really needed it. W/we won't be moving in for another couple of months, but the time to get this straightened around is now. Once W/we move in together it's too late.



SirKenin -> RE: The control of money (3/25/2005 6:29:02 PM)

Thank you Emerald and Citizen for clearing that up. I would sure like to be able to delegate the responsibility (see, I'm listening) to her. If I understand you correctly you are telling Me that with having control I can make the final decision as need be, but she can manage all the day to day money management. That sounds like a good deal to Me. If I couple that with the three bank accounts idea and ledgers if she can keep one, W/we should be in good shape.

Did I summate all the input so far correctly?



nella -> RE: The control of money (3/26/2005 5:17:11 AM)

SirKenin, i hope you and your gil will be werry happy together and i wish you the werry best. i hope i did not insult you.



SirKenin -> RE: The control of money (3/26/2005 10:09:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nella

SirKenin, i hope you and your gil will be werry happy together and i wish you the werry best. i hope i did not insult you.


Thank you very much and no, you did not insult Me at all. Nothing to worry about [:)]



SherriA -> RE: The control of money (3/26/2005 10:48:41 AM)

Am I missing something here? Is this the same person that a couple of weeks ago was running off to her mother's house because you were a big meanie? And now you're considering putting her in charge of your money?

Or this is a new person? Someone you've hooked up with in the past couple of weeks, since the public meltdown? You're considering putting your assets in the hands of someone you've known such a short time?

Either way, it sounds nuts from where I'm sitting. I'm not the world's greatest money manager, but I sure wouldn't be trusting my credit rating, my mortgage, my car insurance, etc to either a stranger or someone so unstable.



SirKenin -> RE: The control of money (3/26/2005 11:22:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA

Am I missing something here? Is this the same person that a couple of weeks ago was running off to her mother's house because you were a big meanie? And now you're considering putting her in charge of your money?

Or this is a new person? Someone you've hooked up with in the past couple of weeks, since the public meltdown? You're considering putting your assets in the hands of someone you've known such a short time?

Either way, it sounds nuts from where I'm sitting. I'm not the world's greatest money manager, but I sure wouldn't be trusting my credit rating, my mortgage, my car insurance, etc to either a stranger or someone so unstable.


No, it's not Sassy. That's over with. This is a girl that I've known for quite some time and got together with after Sassy left. She kind of pounced when the opportunity arose a month ago. lol. I liked her very much anyways so I didn't mind at all naturally. I never expected W/we would ever be together, but W/we are very happy. W/we'll see how it goes. Time will tell.

By the time W/we do move in, provided all goes well, it will be several months down the road. I want to talk about it now because after W/we've made that kind of move it's too late. I did talk to her last night about the suggestions that have been made here and W/we're both in agreement with what has been presented. That is, of course, as long as I interpretted it correctly. So far so good. I trust her. I think she would do better than Me for sure.

Sound good so far?



slaveanwyl -> RE: The control of money (4/1/2005 3:09:31 PM)

Sir

i am a slave not a sub and in a TPE 24/7 relationship with my owner so this question came up for U/us Master is good with finances but i am good at accounting so Master has the money but i do the accounting on the PC and Master still dicusses with slave needs and big purchases but he holds the purse strings as the Dom my salary goes to an account he set up.. if i need money because Master says a slave does not have wants, ( not true) i ask for it but if my owner says NO its NO ..
in Y/your relationship the power exchange is different to a point so yoour sub will desire money.. i would say whichever one is good at making sure the bills are paid on time and what is left is used wisely is the best one to manage the money..
its trial and error Sir but remember most clashes are about money ...or silly things not really about the D/s or M/s side of things..


with respect
slave anwyl



srahfox -> RE: The control of money (4/4/2005 3:51:53 PM)

My Master and I have been together for 10 years. At the begining of our relationship (When we were still playing vanilla) We both had our own accounts and I just gave him money for the bills. There was a problem though, he never managed to get the bills out on time. Plus we were both spending to much extra money. Finally after about 3 years we realized that was just no working. So we joined our accounts and I was handed the check book. I worked much better. How does it work now that he is my Master? The same. We put all of our money in one account and I write out the bills. I make sure he's aware of how much we are spending at all times. I generally pay for everything but only because I'm better at it. I don't buy anything 'extra' without talking to him first. (Unless it's something that's been Okayed, I'm allowed to have one Coke a day so if I'm out it's okay for me to buy one) I certainly don't feel that he's less in control because I take care of the bills and he says that he's just fine with it himself. I always felt that it was smart of him to realize I was the better choice for it. It's something I do for him that he doesn't have to worry about.



SirKenin -> RE: The control of money (4/4/2005 6:39:30 PM)

My concern now is that she seems to be impulsive as well.. I'm getting nervous. I thought I had a plan, but now I'm wondering..



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