Machevelli Domination

Machevelli Domination (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:11:08 PM)
I was sitting here reading the "Dominants Submitting To Requests" thread and I had a question echo through my noggin, which was about how dominants would want to run their dynamics. I guess talk of punishments, and strictness often bring these same thoughts in my mind, which is basically would a dominant rather be feared or loved. It is really quite a Machevellian concept. I thought of this quote below from The Prince in particular. quote: From this arises the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both: but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. ~ The Prince So my question for dominant sorts is this, would you rather inspire fear or love in your submissive if you really can't have both?

szobras -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:15:20 PM)
If it is far safer to be feared than loved, then I choose to live a bit more dangerously.

juliaoceania -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:16:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: szobras If it is far safer to be feared than loved, then I choose to live the bit more dangerously. Great answer!

FukinTroll -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:32:11 PM)
I would rather be loved. I can elate my girl so high she can touch the sky. Her emotions are the key of her devotion. I can take the lash to her or any other disciplinary action and she knows that once that suffering is past, she is purified and it is over. Through love I can wield the greatest sword, I can lay into her a wound so deep she falls to her knees in agony. It is a lasting wound that even the passage of time does not completely heal. It is exists in her mind, deep in her subconscious and every move is forever weighed against it. Months or years later that wound may spring open and the wellspring of tears will flow again. Every kind gesture, every loving touch makes that wound more toxic. After the first moment that Rippers Razor is unleashed and cuts her down leaving her wailing on the floor, it grows and becomes more powerful. From that moment on the more she loves and reveres me makes it that much more powerful. The first time she is cut, the blade may not be quit so deep, yet over time with loving hands it will fester and become a lurking demon ready to drag her into a cesspool of misery and despair. The cage, corner or cross are weak and pitiful by comparison. I rule through love because the power is far greater than fear. Each moment, every passage of time that I affirm that love makes me more powerful. Eventually the fear of the vile blade of love will put her on a path in which her every step, action and thought is meticulously designed to please me. Failing me, I draw that vile blade and cut her with the most painful wound I can deliver. I take her frail face in my hand as she kneels before me and lock my eyes to hers and whisper…. I am disappointed.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:33:49 PM)
Fear never works in the long term.

adaddysgirl -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:40:35 PM)
i've never talked with a sub who really feared her partner and stayed with him so i agree....i don't think they stick around very long. DG

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:42:41 PM)
When it comes down to this subject. I'm totally with sZobras 100%, I will put myself out there on the line, then again I'm a bit of a masochist. In terms of scene playing, this is a different matter. I can be the abusive, user.. mean bad man... but the one I am with, knows that this is just a scene and done for play. I still believe in punishments and strictness, everything depends upon the offense or wrong something was. Meaning there's a difference between my socks not being folded right, and if the she shop lifts something from the store! One offense I would just bring the offense to her attention, and let her know I was displeased.. OH.. the other.. now that's a more serious matter to deal with! To loving punish one for such an action... The thing with spanking if used in punishment, is not the act of giving pain, but the humilation it brings... you don't need to beat the hell out of somebody to punish them... Whew... said more than I intended...

Kirei -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:47:00 PM)
I would choose love, since f.e.a.r. to me is just false evidence appearing real....I'd much rather have the love then. Koneko

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 9:52:50 PM)
I see profiles on here! Where the woman claim they don't want love and affection, and just want to be abused and used. What's up with that?

amayos -> RE: Machiavelli Domination (3/1/2007 10:13:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I was sitting here reading the "Dominants Submitting To Requests" thread and I had a question echo through my noggin, which was about how dominants would want to run their dynamics. I guess talk of punishments, and strictness often bring these same thoughts in my mind, which is basically would a dominant rather be feared or loved. It is really quite a Machevellian concept. I thought of this quote below from The Prince in particular. quote: From this arises the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both: but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. ~ The Prince So my question for dominant sorts is this, would you rather inspire fear or love in your submissive if you really can't have both? What a wonderful question, Julia. I will eschew the desire to speak in so much detail of the original context in which The Prince was written, as I'm certain many understand the source of the above quote centered around the affairs of ruling a state and managing power. Still, one can perhaps see a correlation between domination in a D/s context and Machiavellianism. I myself have been accused from time to time of expressing methods which might be attributed to his 'ends justifies the means' reputation, though I feel those who do so don't fully understand me, or Niccolò Machiavelli, for that matter. I disagree that love and fear can hardly live together, however. I have seen such an amalgam before my eyes, and regularly do with any female who serves me for a long enough period of time. Fear and love working together toward obedience in the same soul is beautiful and attainable.

juliaoceania -> RE: Machiavelli Domination (3/1/2007 10:31:56 PM)
You know I thought of you when I made this post..laughing! That is NOT an insult, it is just that some of what you post resonates with this dark imagery of the deepest recesses of what can be extracted from a submissive/slave. Not my brand of domination mind you, I am more for the warm and fuzzy chivalry type of Authurian dominant archetype. I realize the context that The Prince was written in, but there is something about power and the exercising of that power that transcends weilding political influence. Power is everywhere.

BitaTruble -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 10:41:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile I see profiles on here! Where the woman claim they don't want love and affection, and just want to be abused and used. What's up with that? Love is much more painful than fear and until you're ready to face that sort of pain, fear is the lessor of two evils. Being used and abused seems mild by comparison. There are also any number of people who don't believe in love so would shun any semblance of it rather than face the sort of heartache that only love, the losing of it or the lack of it, can cause. I don't know that someone who's never been in that place can understand what it can do to you.. or how hard it is to overcome. Celeste

ownedgirlie -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 10:56:57 PM)
I can not help but love him deeply, although I am quite aware he can crush me if he chooses. Do I fear he will? No, but I am in awe of his ability to. As for methods to obtain obedience through punishment, I can say I have feared the punishment but not the Master, and in most cases punishments were necessary for me to reflect on behavioral causes through pain when I had pained the relationship. Julia, I read your comment to Amayos about "...the deepest recesses which can be extracted from a submissive/slave." But this is not something to be feared, rather sought after. I have been led to the depth of my very being, and terrified of the journey no doubt. But what was produced as its result was something to behold, not feared. And once it was discovered that the path to my core was safe so long as I followed him there, the journey was not to be feared, either. I have been ruled by loveless fear in my life. It converted me from a young and independent woman to a cowering and insecure creature, too skittish to find any footing. I do not recommend it. But the delicous blend of loving the ruler yet fearing what he is capable of is quite an amazing thing.

strictblkdomnj -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 11:20:13 PM)
I prefer to be loved, because love inspires submission, fear causes contempt. Submission/slavery are choices - you choose to submit or to give up your right to choose. Submission come from trust, which is the foundation for love.

nissa -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 11:22:40 PM)
quote: Love is much more painful than fear and until you're ready to face that sort of pain, fear is the lessor of two evils. Being used and abused seems mild by comparison. Perfectly stated.

SlyStone -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 11:22:57 PM)
So my question for dominant sorts is this, would you rather inspire fear or love in your submissive if you really can't have both? Fear The need to inspire love is a selfish one, fear is something for her to face and overcome, and with that comes growth.

juliaoceania -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 11:28:33 PM)
quote: Julia, I read your comment to Amayos about "...the deepest recesses which can be extracted from a submissive/slave." But this is not something to be feared, rather sought after. For you it is to be sought after and I respect this, for me it is something that he inspires, and not extracts. There is a definite difference in my mind between setting out to extract certain things from someone (and i mean in a consensual way) and someone inspiring another to give forth what is there. I am not saying Amayos does not inspire, it is more of intent. I have read many of posts in which Amayos talks about where he wants the slave to go and has a very definite idea of what he wishes to extract. I would not fear it, but neither do I seek that sort of relationship. Chocolate vanilla and strawberry. I want to feel loved for exactly who I am, not for some vision of what someone else wants me to be... and I think that different people have different ideas of what it is they want... some want to be reformed and made new... some of us do not. I was not insulting his way of being, and by dark I do not mean his way is less, or not valid, or abusive... I definitely admire all of his posts and his openness in his methods. He does not try to hide his methods, and any slave that he would take on I am sure would know the ground rules of being his.

MissDiscipline -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 11:30:58 PM)
I would rather instill fear in my submissives. Fear of the known and the unknown.

amayos -> RE: Machiavelli Domination (3/1/2007 11:33:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You know I thought of you when I made this post..laughing! That is NOT an insult, it is just that some of what you post resonates with this dark imagery of the deepest recesses of what can be extracted from a submissive/slave. I am honored. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Not my brand of domination mind you, I am more for the warm and fuzzy chivalry type of Authurian dominant archetype. I can be warm a fuzzy—most just gore themselves on my inky spines before they get there. Honest.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Machevelli Domination (3/1/2007 11:36:45 PM)
quote: Love is much more painful than fear and until you're ready to face that sort of pain, fear is the lessor of two evils. Being used and abused seems mild by comparison. There are also any number of people who don't believe in love so would shun any semblance of it rather than face the sort of heartache that only love, the losing of it or the lack of it, can cause. I don't know that someone who's never been in that place can understand what it can do to you.. or how hard it is to overcome. Celeste So, if one were to snag one of these no limits, use and abuse me slaves.. and Love them to death, that would be the Ultimate Sadistic punishment? LOL...

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