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Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 11:28:07 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says
Kate Ravilious
for National Geographic News
February 28, 2007Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human- induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.
Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. (Get an overview: "Global Warming Fast Facts".) 

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      Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures.
      In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.
      Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of the St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.
      "The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.
      Solar Cycles
      Abdussamatov believes that changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.
      Mars and Earth, for instance, have experienced periodic ice ages throughout their histories.
      "Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.
      By studying fluctuations in the warmth of the sun, Abdussamatov believes he can see a pattern that fits with the ups and downs in climate we see on Earth and Mars.
      Abdussamatov's work, however, has not been well received by other climate scientists.

      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

      < Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 3/2/2007 2:43:03 PM >
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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 12:16:37 PM   
      popeye1250


      Posts: 18104
      Joined: 1/27/2006
      From: New Hampshire
      Status: offline       		Yes but don't you realise that if we give the "U.N." tens of billions of dollars they can "solve" this problem?

      (in reply to Sanity)
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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 12:19:33 PM   
      FukinTroll


      Posts: 6277
      Joined: 2/6/2007
      From: Under a bridge
      Status: offline       		Don't you know that Global Warming deniers are shot?

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 12:25:55 PM   
      meatcleaver


      Posts: 9030
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      Status: offline       		None of this is news, it isn't as though these solar cycles have just been discovered and haven't been factored into equations. I'm no scientist but I knew 15 years ago that the height of one of the solar cycles would be reached around now and if its warming the earth it would be warming other planets in the solar system. From what I understand the math still don't add up without human activity being factored in.

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 2:12:26 PM   
      Sanity


      Posts: 22039
      Joined: 6/14/2006
      From: Nampa, Idaho USA
      Status: offline       		Actually, it is news. How many of the Global Warming faithful have heard that Mars is heating up too? It certainly isn't in any of the Reverend Al Gore's sermons, is it. As a matter of fact, I'll bet you that hardly anyone has heard this.

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 2:42:33 PM   
      seeksfemslave


      Posts: 4011
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      Status: offline       		Doesnt surprise me one little bit.
      The Earth's weather machine is just too powerful to be affected by human activity.
      Authoritarian Liberals (ALs) use the global warming issue to limit others freedom !

      ALs are the self same santimonious sods that put those vicious messages on cigarette packets.
      eg Smoking may cause a long lingering death.
      So may promiscuous ass fucking, but ALs  tone that fact down dont they ?


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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 2:52:05 PM   
      Real0ne


      Posts: 21189
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Sanity

      Actually, it is news. How many of the Global Warming faithful have heard that Mars is heating up too? It certainly isn't in any of the Reverend Al Gore's sermons, is it. As a matter of fact, I'll bet you that hardly anyone has heard this.


      yeh but his charts shows factor of 2 in increase in co2 over the normal and no abnormal increase in temp.... anyone else catch that?  i had to listen to him a second time just to verify that LOL

      Everyone is looking for an edge to get money, and of course there are huge corporations poised to fix it for us at zillons of tax dollars!  At least till they get the money! Then everyone rapidly forgets about it, it falls out of the media focus like a full scale investigation on 911 :)  forgotten...

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: FukinTroll
      Don't you know that Global Warming deniers are shot?


      has that been put into law yet?  i thought it was just those who were against gw?



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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 4:22:38 PM   
      meatcleaver


      Posts: 9030
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Sanity

      Actually, it is news. How many of the Global Warming faithful have heard that Mars is heating up too? It certainly isn't in any of the Reverend Al Gore's sermons, is it. As a matter of fact, I'll bet you that hardly anyone has heard this.


      It isn't news, you should read the New Scientist from 15 years ago.

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 5:05:18 PM   
      WyrdRich


      Posts: 1733
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

      Don't you know that Global Warming deniers are shot?




           They are having a little problem with that approach, Fukin.  Your typical, urban, lobotomy liberal has been trained since birth that guns are bad and nobody should have them.  Result, the people they want shot not only have most of the guns, we can either hit what we are aiming at, or know a variety of ammunition where getting close is good enough.

          It's that damn Law of Unintended Consequences that they just aren't quite brilliant enough to grasp.

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 5:35:10 PM   
      luckydog1


      Posts: 2736
      Joined: 1/16/2006
      Status: offline       		I remember about 2 months ago arguing this exact point with you Meat, and you insisted that Mars was not warming, and that it's Ice Caps were melting for some other reason.  You even gave me a nonsense link trying to prove it. 

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 6:22:45 PM   
      FirmhandKY


      Posts: 8948
      Joined: 9/21/2004
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: luckydog1

      I remember about 2 months ago arguing this exact point with you Meat, and you insisted that Mars was not warming, and that it's Ice Caps were melting for some other reason.  You even gave me a nonsense link trying to prove it. 


      Actually, I think it was LordandMaster that tried to say it wasn't happening by posting a pdf file that discussed it. 

      It didn't say what he thought it did, but I don't think he ever read it, anyway.

      FirmKY

      < Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 3/2/2007 6:23:24 PM >

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 6:32:25 PM   
      domiguy


      Posts: 12952
      Joined: 5/2/2006
      Status: offline       		I don't know all the facts pertaining to global warming I do no that no one out here knows he answe either. Is it so wrong to presume that dumping all of the shit into our air and seas would have an effect.  The conservative pinheads who hate the mesenger so much that they will totally disregard the message...Even if the message is not entirely accurate what can it harm to reduce our emmission levels?

      Since sanity was so nice to include the link to National Geographic News...I decided to do what all of you twits seem to be incapable of...I read the magazine. Different articles same issue...read up and enjoy.

      National Geographic News

      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070217-acid-oceans.html....Article about how are emmissions are killing our oceans

      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070216-glaciers-melting.html...article alluding to global warming's impact on the glaciers.

      I have no idea whether global warming is man's problem or not...but to think there is absoloutely no cause and effect from us dumping all that we do into the air and seas just doesn't make any sense.

      For Sanity and all of the others...If this was proposed by some intelligent design advocating, abortion hating old fat white guy you wouldn't even begin to open your pie holes in criticism....

      This is the problem with our political landscape today....Fuck the message and the messengers as well....We have lost the ability to process or reason...we see the word conservative or liberal and whatever they are saying, they are wrong!...end of story.

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 8:14:56 PM   
      cyberdude611


      Posts: 2596
      Joined: 5/7/2006
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

      None of this is news, it isn't as though these solar cycles have just been discovered and haven't been factored into equations. I'm no scientist but I knew 15 years ago that the height of one of the solar cycles would be reached around now and if its warming the earth it would be warming other planets in the solar system. From what I understand the math still don't add up without human activity being factored in.


      In 2012, the sun will go through a massive polar magnetic shift, one of the strongest ever witnessed, and NASA says that it will increase our planet's temperature for that year.

      NASA has also reported that the polar caps on Mars has melted slightly, signalling that there is an increase in solar heat over the past decade.

      (in reply to meatcleaver)
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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 8:51:38 PM   
      FirmhandKY


      Posts: 8948
      Joined: 9/21/2004
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      quote:

      ORIGINAL: domiguy

      I decided to do what all of you twits seem to be incapable of...I read the magazine. Different articles same issue...read up and enjoy.

      ...

      This is the problem with our political landscape today....Fuck the message and the messengers as well....We have lost the ability to process or reason...we see the word conservative or liberal and whatever they are saying, they are wrong!...end of story.


      No.

      The problem with the "political landscape" are people who can't disagree and discuss issues without throwing insulting names out at people.

      FirmKY


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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 9:04:47 PM   
      domiguy


      Posts: 12952
      Joined: 5/2/2006
      Status: offline       		Oh please!.... I used "twits" because honest to God I didn't think anyone would be to put off by it.  I have always considered it to be more funny than derogatory ...Something out of Monty Python....Also if you noticed this twit didn't do a very good job of checking my post before posting...lots of typos.

      Nothing to get heated up over, just having some fun....But I did  think the two articles were of interest...As well as relevant to the conversation.

      < Message edited by domiguy -- 3/2/2007 9:05:44 PM >

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 10:30:48 PM   
      popeye1250


      Posts: 18104
      Joined: 1/27/2006
      From: New Hampshire
      Status: offline       		Domiguy, it's not only "conservatives" who aren't swallowing this "U.N." money scam, not by a longshot!
      Most of my fellow Independants and Moderates aren't convinced either.
      Once I see that the "U.N." is involved in something I automatically shut down.

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 10:51:13 PM   
      Zensee


      Posts: 1564
      Joined: 9/4/2004
      Status: offline       		Whew! It's all the sun's fault after all!

      I guess it OK to go back to spewing toxic sludge into the air and water, paving the wilderness, exterminating species, littering the world with depleted uranium while suking it dry as fast as we can.

      God that was close.

      Z. 

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 10:58:00 PM   
      cyberdude611


      Posts: 2596
      Joined: 5/7/2006
      Status: offline       		The problem I have with the global warming theory (and yes it is a THEORY) is that we have a 4 billion year old planet and only about 150 years of accurate weather data. How can you possibly make a scientific statement that says that man is responsible by only using that data?
      In science, the fundamental part of the scientific method is that a hypothesis is either supported or not supported. It can never be "proven" true. Yet the global warming crowd seems to think that this THEORY has been proven true, is happening, and that there is no debate about it's accuracy or reliability of the research. But I assure you, there are many skeptics of this THEORY. And not just oil companies...but many respected scientists have come out. Meterologists that have decades of experience are calling foul.

      What global warming activists are going on is correlation of certain rising emitions (like CO2) with global temperature averages. However, these people have a serious flaw in their research that they do not consider possible alternate mediating variables. There are many, many things that effect the temperature of the earth. Everything from cloud cover, volcanic activity, and solar activity. There is also some new evidence to show that the constant fluctuations in the magnetic field changes the amount of solar radiation that enters the atmosphere. And this may cause ocean temperatures to rise enough to effect our weather patterns.

      Global warming activists also claim that the rise in stronger and more violent weather activity is a result of global warming. But these weather events have been occuring for hundreds of years. Massive tornadoes also existed in the early 1900s. In fact strongest tornado on record occured in 1925. It touched down in southern Indiana and ran across three states killing nearly 800 people. There have also been more deadlier hurricanes than Katrina. And Katrina was not even the strongest hurricane on record. Katrina actually weakened to a category 4 before making landfall. Andrew (1992) and Camille (1969) made landfall as a category 5 which were much more powerful hurricanes. Camille made landfall with over 190 mph winds. Andrew hit with 155 mph. In 1935, the famous Labor Day storm was a Cat 5 that hit the Florida Keys. That storm was also stronger than Katrina.
      The reason Katrina was so bad had nothing to do with global warming. It was bad because there was poor disaster planning and poor construction of the levy system. Massive flooding happends with hurricanes. It has always been that way. The winds of a hurricane push massive amounts of water onto the shore. In an area that is several feet below sea level (like New Orleans), flooding is unavoidable. It is common sense. Yes, FEMA was slow to respond after the storm. But why the people of New Orleans were not evacuated by the city, county, and state is the question that needs to be asked. The city city didn't start preparing until the day before the storm hit. That's WAY too late. New Orleans didn't even take the direct hit of Katrina. It hit 50 miles east of the city in Alabama. The west side of the storm is what hit New Orleans...which is the weakest part of the hurricane.

      Is the Earth warming? Yes. Is the pollution bad? Yes. Is the destruction of rain forests bad? Of course. But I am sick and tired of the fear-mongering. There is not enough evidence to say for certain that humans are the cause for the very small amount that the earth is warming. And there certainly isn't any evidence to support these doomsday scenarios. That's all opinion. We cannot predict accurately the path of a hurricane. We cannot even accurately predict the weather a day ahead of time. But you think we can predict the weather 50, 100, or 200 years from now? Give me a break! Unless Al Gore has some kind of crystal ball, what he is spewing is nothing but opinion. There is no scientific fact that the world will be flooded in 100 years. That's junk science right there.

      (in reply to domiguy)
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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 11:25:39 PM   
      Zensee


      Posts: 1564
      Joined: 9/4/2004
      Status: offline       		CD611 - If there is no firm science how can you assert that there is no significant effect on the global climate from human activity?

      Oh? What's this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5314592.stm

      "Carbon dioxide levels are substantially higher now than at any time in the last 800,000 years, the latest study of ice drilled out of Antarctica confirms."
       
      CO2 is a marker gas. In order to pump the significant amounts that we do into the atmosphere we do more than just breathe out. You identified a few of the abusive accompanying practices. It's not just about CO2 or an increase in global temperatures. And warning about the comming calamity from our excess isn't fear mongering. If we don't mend our ways fast there will be a reckoning and no amount of ambiguity in climate science can change that.


      Z.

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      RE: Another Global Warming Heretic - 3/2/2007 11:42:59 PM   
      popeye1250


      Posts: 18104
      Joined: 1/27/2006
      From: New Hampshire
      Status: offline
      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Zensee

      Whew! It's all the sun's fault after all!

      I guess it OK to go back to spewing toxic sludge into the air and water, paving the wilderness, exterminating species, littering the world with depleted uranium while suking it dry as fast as we can.

      God that was close.

      Z. 


      Zensee, you forgot cutting down the Amazonian rain forest and building condos there.
      Does this mean I can start burning giant piles of old tires again?
      Man, those things would go for days!
      I think we're going to find out that the sun has more power than we thought especially in 2012.
      If the "U.N." is trying to get involved in this you know that there's some type of scam comming up involving U.S. Taxpayer dollars.
      And probably Canadian too.

      < Message edited by popeye1250 -- 3/2/2007 11:44:37 PM >

      (in reply to Zensee)
      Profile   Post #: 20
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