RE: Why is the word slave so negative?

RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (Full Version)

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happypervert -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/3/2007 8:01:25 PM)
Frankly, I find the word slave used by kinksters to be both foolish and obnoxious because it seems like nothing more than romanticized role playing when there are still real slaves in the world. http://www.economist.com/research/backgrounders/displaybackgrounder.cfm?bg=975188 Furthermore, it also leads to a submissive one-upmanship and inane hierachies as well as never ending threads about "what's the difference. . . " Once upon a time somebody had the bright idea to adopt that label, and I think it is too bad that he/she wasn't immediately shot to nip this nonsense in the bud.

FukinTroll -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/3/2007 9:12:32 PM)
There is still torture in the world and yet here we are.

Areflectionofyou -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/3/2007 9:16:17 PM)
There should not be negativity with either. You are what the two of you decide ..Slave, Sub, pet...lover whatever the relationship holds is good for the two involved.

slavegirljoy -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/3/2007 10:51:04 PM)
Unfortunately, there will always be those who are very judgmental and critical of others and there are those who boost their own ego by putting down others and those who have to make themselves feel that they are "right" by telling anyone who is different that they are not right. Considering that people who enjoy BDSM used to be thought of as being very open-minded and individualistic people who were willing and desiring to go outside the boundaries of "conventional" thought regarding sexual relations and stretch the limits on "the rules of sex", there sure does seem to be a substantial amount of intolerance here concerning what each person chooses to designate as their own particular identity in this life. Whatever happened to "His Kink isn't necessarily my kink and that's OK"? This is not a "one kink fits all" society. And, it doesn't need to be a "one label fits all" one either. Personally, i have many labels and my labels have changed over the years. i have had the label of "daughter", "sister", "student", "graduate", "soldier", "newbie", "girlfriend", "wife", "ex-wife", "veteran", "parent", "mother", "victim", "patient", "amputee", "neighbor", "friend", "Christian", "sinner", "volunteer", "employee", "disabled", and many more. These are all labels that i have identified with, along with the label "slave". That label is no more or less significant to me than any of the others. It is just another way in which i identify who i am. i don't fit myself into any particular preset mold based on a label and i sure don't fit myself into anyone else's definition of the label. i fit the label to who i am, not the other way around. It is my choice to identify myself anyway i feel is right for me. If someone is curious as to why i identify myself the way i do or how i define the label for myself, they are encouraged to ask rather than make assumptions about me based on my label. If someone thinks i am an idiot or a lowlife for identifying myself this way, that is their opinion and they are entitled to express it. i won't lose any sleep over it. Still, i think that these types of negative remarks do nothing to enhance the flow of free expression on this forum and can be harmful in that some people may become reluctant to share their thoughts and experiences, if they fear being put down because they identify themselves as a "slave". Why not just enjoy our differences and perspectives rather than try to make everyone fit one particular mold? Let each person decide for themselves what they consider to be their particular identity and stop putting each other down for not fitting into someone else's mold? We are not all made from the same cookie cutter, we each write our own individual story, and we each decide how we wish to identify ourself. Why can't we encourage our differences instead of condemning them? Just a thought...... slave joy Owned property of Master David

myobedience -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/3/2007 11:32:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: swtrayn I will be looking forward to seeing some your questions answered. To me.. it is a label.. what one might consider me is not what someone else might. I am just me.. I am not big on lables, never have been. I don't really feel like I fit into a label. rayn Thanks rayn, but I am not looking to have those questions answered really... its a rhetorical response. If someone might consider those types of questions when they want to devalue another person's "label" then there might be no further discussion on the difference between the 2 ~ sub vs slave. ....well, JMHO

gypsygrl -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 3:30:03 AM)
I notice the same sort of negativism. Its like use of the term "doormat" or "do me sub." I am often struck by how insulting people can be. I have a lot more respect for a tactful, diplomatic, self-reflective slave who knows how to handle his or herself in a public forum than a mean, snarky submissive with great self-esteem and lots of motivation. Of course, I have lots of respect for tactful, diplomatic, self-reflective submissives too and wouldn't have much truck with a mean, snarky slave...:)

heartfeltsub -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 6:18:33 AM)
Thank you for starting this thread, this same thought has been troubling me for the last little while. As OG said, it seems to be some sort of competition, who is better, a slave or a submissive and there has to be a myriad of thread bashing any one who identifies as either so that someone else feels better about how they identify themselves. Part of it i think go back to this hierarchy mentality that crept in a while ago, and part of it is our own insecurities. For some the term slave has become a "badge" to be earned, or so it seems. And some of those who don't ever want to "earn" that "badge" seem to feel the need to denigrate the "badge" so they feel better about not trying to earn it. The list of questions that myobedience asks also seems to be part of the issue. (Not that it was a bad list) Those kinds of questions, basing what is and isn't a slave on whether one sleeps in a cage, is always chained, etc, seem to exacerbate the whole "argument" of who is better than who. But it is an age old dilemna of people's ego and how to make themselves feel better about themselves. Not to try to start another argument, but i have found that the people with the healthiest egos don't really care what others think. Not just say they don't but still respond in anger and defense of how they self-identify, but rather really don't care. That sounds like a badge worth earning. heartfelt

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 7:21:19 AM)
I have thought about this thread more, and I have noticed an influx of newer people (spring fever perhaps[;)]). When there are a lot of new people they ask questions that perhaps we have seen over and over again. Some of them do not realize that we try to respect each other's labels because many of us feel we have gotten to know each other... some of us are friends, some of us have met... and we see the insults based upon labels and it is something that those of us posting here for awhile try not to do to each other perhaps? I think we try to understand those we feel we know more than those we do not... or perhaps I am mistaken

sublizzie -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 7:34:17 AM)
Maybe it's all part of the learning curve?

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 7:49:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublizzie Maybe it's all part of the learning curve? I think there might be some truth to that, and perhaps reading a thread like this will show some people that as a group we do not bash each other about the slave submissive thing all that much... we bash each other over entirely different matters... Ha Ha

LadyAnnabelleLee -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 7:52:19 AM)
The personal reason why I thought the word 'slave' was so negative, or in my case repulsive is because of the groveling, unconfident, rug of a human being that most slaves seem to be. However, as I've stated elsewhere in this forum "it is the loud few that speak for the quiet many." After seeing an actual slave/Master relationship in which the slave was an amazingly confident successful and dare I say dominant person I changed my tune. And no it wasn't to "I'm a slave for you." [;)]

Sunshine119 -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 9:39:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly I think perhaps subs lash out as slaves because they think that we think we are better... I have found that many slaves DO present themselves as better. I consider myself a submissive because I do enjoy a certain level of independence as the Troll pointed out. "His Highness" keeps telling me I'm a slave because I take care of all his needs, in and outside the bedroom For some reason, it does piss me off when he calls me a slave. At times like that, I get far bratter and even go on strike! Frankly, there probably isn't a difference in actual practice. But words DO matter. Sunshine

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 9:57:11 AM)
Well I know slaves that think they are better than subs and vice versa, I see a lot of people that describe D/s and M/s as more deep than vanilla. It is a heirarchy of sorts with the rest of the world. What we do is not intrinsically more than what someone else does. And yet I see repeatedly see people that try to assert that it is. "We trust more than vanillas, we need better communication than vanillas".

spkmepls -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 10:04:21 AM)
i believe the negativity stems from the vanilla side of the world.. slave has always had negative conotations. For me, in the D/s world, it's perhaps a deeper level of submission. i identify with being a submissive and not a slave. i don't believe that anyone has the right to judge, it is the sub/slave who identifies where she/he wants to be and then with whom they connect with to share their lifestyle.

TrueCalling -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 10:43:45 AM)
It is my own belief that the word slave is used by far too many who have no idea what being one entails. I have long thought that some use it in order to appear more attractive, more 'experienced', etc. to others. A more widespread imagine -and one that has already been noted here, is that of the doormat/piece of meat mentality aka the mindless slave... There is so much more to being a slave than to simply be called one/call yourself one. Those who have indeed lived life as intended, realize that the mockery of, in the form of what i call newfangled D/s BS, often leaves a bad impression.. Instead of trying to define oneself with some pre-coined title or term, a person should reveal themself through honesty and sincerity. Besides, once you're 'his' he can call you whatever he wants! <G> Respectfully, colleen

Wildfleurs -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 10:43:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie It's an ongoing competitive thing which I'll never understand. If people are true to themselves in who they are, then whatever anyone else is shouldn't make a difference. I always assume those who think negatively of slaves are those who either do not want to face similar qualities about themselves, or who are ignorant about what a slave is. I never really understood such emotional reactions to what other people are (unless of course they are harming the innocent). So...slave, submissve, dominant, master, vanilla, orange sherbet, all of the above, none of the above - makes no difference to me. Are you a good person? Then odds are I like you, no matter your definition. I have to agree with ownedgirlie. I've seen it over and over again - insecurity that breeds negative thinking over other peoples choices. I think if you are comfortable and sure in what you are then the need to put down other people's choices diminishes significantly. C~

petstorm -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 11:06:36 AM)
In my opinion..... People put a negative tone to slave (and submissive, and even Master, Mistress, Dom/me, etc) because they don't understand you or have heard negative things about what it is to be one. What's the difference? The difference is in your own heart. It's up to you to define who and what you really are, inside and out. Some say it's up to whatever your Dom or Master calls you... i don't agree. YOU have to feel what it is that you are. i see myself as a slave because in my heart, i have completely surrendered to my Master. He's my world, and there's very little i would deny him. Even old limits that were there when i first submitted to him have been shed, because i trust him. Because i feel safe with him. Because i love him. Because i have this driving need in me to fuel a fire i can't even possibly begin to explain. i don't just submit, it's what i have become. Can i tell you when i crossed that line? Can i look back and say right there! That's when i went from being a submissive to a slave. Not a chance. It's something that happened all on it's own, and it has nothing to do with how i serve, or what i do. SLAVE: –noun 1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. 3. a drudge: a housekeeping slave. i am a slave to my heart. And if anyone wishes to put that into a negative light, they're most welcome to, because what i share with my Master is anything BUT negative. And that's what really matters.

myobedience -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 11:07:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub Thank you for starting this thread, this same thought has been troubling me for the last little while. ......... The list of questions that myobedience asks also seems to be part of the issue. (Not that it was a bad list) Those kinds of questions, basing what is and isn't a slave on whether one sleeps in a cage, is always chained, etc, seem to exacerbate the whole "argument" of who is better than who. But it is an age old dilemna of people's ego and how to make themselves feel better about themselves. heartfelt I didnt communicate it very well, but that was my POINT. If one answers each AND every question, you will find that slave and sub is not defined by any answer you will ever give. It is based on ones' relationship with the other. BUT EGO likes to trip everyone up and say.. "gee I AM SLAVE. I use to be a submissive. That must make me better!" The same with dom/master. When an EGO walks through a door before a human being, there goes my interest. Period. You are who you are and no one can define that but you ~ by your own mindset, your actions and attitude.

myobedience -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 11:10:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petstorm In my opinion..... People put a negative tone to slave (and submissive, and even Master, Mistress, Dom/me, etc) because they don't understand you or have heard negative things about what it is to be one. What's the difference? The difference is in your own heart. It's up to you to define who and what you really are, inside and out. Some say it's up to whatever your Dom or Master calls you... i don't agree. YOU have to feel what it is that you are. i see myself as a slave because in my heart, i have completely surrendered to my Master. He's my world, and there's very little i would deny him. Even old limits that were there when i first submitted to him have been shed, because i trust him. Because i feel safe with him. Because i love him. Because i have this driving need in me to fuel a fire i can't even possibly begin to explain. i don't just submit, it's what i have become. Can i tell you when i crossed that line? Can i look back and say right there! That's when i went from being a submissive to a slave. Not a chance. It's something that happened all on it's own, and it has nothing to do with how i serve, or what i do. SLAVE: –noun 1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. 3. a drudge: a housekeeping slave. i am a slave to my heart. And if anyone wishes to put that into a negative light, they're most welcome to, because what i share with my Master is anything BUT negative. And that's what really matters. Going back to definitions ...such a waste of time and energy. YOU and HE DEFINE who you are not a dictionary. jmho

petstorm -> RE: Why is the word slave so negative? (3/4/2007 11:18:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: myobedience quote: ORIGINAL: petstorm In my opinion..... People put a negative tone to slave (and submissive, and even Master, Mistress, Dom/me, etc) because they don't understand you or have heard negative things about what it is to be one. What's the difference? The difference is in your own heart. It's up to you to define who and what you really are, inside and out. Some say it's up to whatever your Dom or Master calls you... i don't agree. YOU have to feel what it is that you are. i see myself as a slave because in my heart, i have completely surrendered to my Master. He's my world, and there's very little i would deny him. Even old limits that were there when i first submitted to him have been shed, because i trust him. Because i feel safe with him. Because i love him. Because i have this driving need in me to fuel a fire i can't even possibly begin to explain. i don't just submit, it's what i have become. Can i tell you when i crossed that line? Can i look back and say right there! That's when i went from being a submissive to a slave. Not a chance. It's something that happened all on it's own, and it has nothing to do with how i serve, or what i do. SLAVE: –noun 1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. 3. a drudge: a housekeeping slave. i am a slave to my heart. And if anyone wishes to put that into a negative light, they're most welcome to, because what i share with my Master is anything BUT negative. And that's what really matters. Going back to definitions ...such a waste of time and energy. YOU and HE DEFINE who you are not a dictionary. jmho Sometimes going to what a word means or where it comes from helps put things into perspective. Did you actually read what i wrote? Or are you just criticizing me again because you can?

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