RE: aaah Jesus? (Full Version)

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LotusSong -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 2:47:49 PM)

I read a book in the late 70's that was based on this sort of situation.  What if the bones of Jesus were found which disproved the resurrection and thus eroded Christianity.
 
The bones were stolen by the Vatican and were kept under one Jesuit who was proven to be the most devoted priest they found .. what a mind blow to have to be burdened with his faith and the evidence it was invalid for the rest of his life 
 
If they DO prove it to be true beyond the shadow of a doubt.the Muslims are going to have a field day.



FukinTroll -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 2:53:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I can see it now..........."ahhhhhhh hello?........God?......oh great heavenly father dude? could you come here a minute? We just need a little swab...."



Sure thing toots.



defiantbadgirl -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 2:54:27 PM)

I don't see how they could ever prove it since they don't have anyone to match the DNA to. Human cloning is illegal and therefore not an option.



meatcleaver -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 3:02:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I read a book in the late 70's that was based on this sort of situation.  What if the bones of Jesus were found which disproved the resurrection and thus eroded Christianity.
 


Surely no one really believes the resurrection, especially when that other miracle, the virgin birth, is known to have arisen through a mistranslation.



MadameMajidah -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 3:03:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

I can just see Maury Povich announcing, "In the case of 2,041 year old Jesus Christ, God, you ARE the father!"  

Or, worse scenario, "God, you are NOT the father!"  Lightning flashes, thunder rolls, the Virgin Mary runs backstage and throws herself sobbing on the couch.....

I'd better head to church now, and pray for my soul.



LMAO.. I've been on quite the "Jesus was kinky" kick lately... so as far as going to pray for My soul... yeah, Ill join you at church.. but I just dont believe that Jesus couldve walked this Earth for all that time..and not have had some sort of sexual relations.. I mean.. when I  Imagine Jesus.. I see a hot guy.. long hair.. 6 pack..tanned to dark skin.. come on now.. plus POWERS... Look what bruce almighty did to chicks when he had "powers" .. LOL Come on fellas, if you had the power to get a looksie up anyones skirt, Im sure you'd do it too. But yes. I think Jesus had kids, I think it's a big coverup, I think Jesus was God... in some form..but what most people forget is the according to the bible, God sent Jesus to earth to live as a Man..he was to be the second Adam.... men are sexual beings... according to the bible.. marriage is holy marriage is love.. therefore if christ is holy, and christ is love.. marriage is love..marriage is holy.. therefore Jesus got laid. Jesus got married. Jesus had babies!! Im gonna watch that documentary tonight.. but Until then... Go Go Gadget bible!!!



Rule -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 3:15:16 PM)

So what if his bones were found? Does it disprove resurrection? No. Besides, there were witnesses, in particular Thomas the Unbeliever, who put his dirty fingers into his wounds: a tactile witness.
 
Is there any reason why someone cannot die a second time after being resurrected? No.
 
In fact, I died when I was nine, though my heart kept beating and my lungs kept breathing. I expect to die a second time and subsequently to be reborn again - as that is the pattern that I experienced.
 
As to the parentage of Jesus, it is well known - from (second century) Jewish research - that the Divine used a Roman soldier by name of Panthera to make love to Mary and to father Jesus. The jews thought that evidence would disprove the alleged divine origin of Jesus, but they were theologically incompetent. What human male actually fathered Jesus is theologically not relevant. The only relevant criterium is that he was conceived in love and out of wedlock. As such he was the descendant of the god of beginnings and the hope of mankind - as all such children are.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Surely no one really believes the resurrection, especially when that other miracle, the virgin birth, is known to have arisen through a mistranslation.
Don't know about that mistranslation. But there is no biological reason for a woman with an intact hymen not to conceive. If that virgin conception is perceived as a miracle in those days by the biologically less erudite, then from the point of theology it is a miracle - even though I in our times know better.



Zensee -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 4:19:28 PM)

Rule - the cornerstone of post Nicean Christianity is that Jesus died in the flesh and was resurected in the flesh into eternal life. If he used a spare body for the resurection or eventually died again, it sort of defeats the exercise. Similarly the raputre calls for the faithful, in their bodies, to be called to heaven and for the dead to be made whole again, in the flesh.

I'm not saying I believe this myself but I think you'll find that the majority of christians are quite clear on this matter. I'm not sure where you are getting your version from. I have never heard of this surrogate father story or the "god of beginnings" aspect (links or sources please?). Nor do I think that children born out of wedlock are necessarily conceived in love or are extra special. If they have a mother they are pretty much as good or bad as the rest of us.

Parthenogenisis (virgin birth) is recorded in reptiles and even birds but never observed in even the simplest of mamals. If you have evidence to the contrary I would love to see it.


Z.



StellaByStarlite -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 5:06:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

The show in question is on the Discovery channel tonight (Sunday).



Pthhttt.. to hell with Jesus's bones, I'm watching Rome =)

Stella



Rule -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 6:22:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee
Rule - the cornerstone of post Nicean Christianity is that Jesus died in the flesh and was resurrected in the flesh into eternal life.

That council in Nicea in 325 AD was about three centuries after the resurrection. Besides, I am not interested in theological doctrine, but in truths and theological truths.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee
If he used a spare body for the resurrection or eventually died again, it sort of defeats the exercise.

Not at all. Indications are that it was his own body, considering the wounds and the report about the sweet smell of his breath (presumably caused by rotting tissues).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee
Similarly the raputre calls for the faithful, in their bodies, to be called to heaven and for the dead to be made whole again, in the flesh.

I guess that you intended to write 'rapture'. Mythology clearly states that the dead are resurrected again by the God of the Dead if they are worthy. Also it was common for the gods to be resurrected or to be born again. I think that the confused perceptions about mythology and theology of lesser minds are interesting, but deplorable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee
I have never heard of this surrogate father story or the "god of beginnings" aspect (links or sources please?).

Simply google Panthera & Jesus.

As for the god of beginnings he is in at least two mythologies. The theological interpretation is mine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee
Nor do I think that children born out of wedlock are necessarily conceived in love or are extra special.

My statement was an AND-statement.
Ah, you think. Well done. Never mind; I suspect even Lady Ellen may have difficulty in comprehending my wisdom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee
Parthenogenisis (virgin birth) is recorded in reptiles and even birds but never observed in even the simplest of mammals. If you have evidence to the contrary I would love to see it.

It is not biologically necessary to break a hymen to fertilize a woman. That is only an erroneous supposition by the feeble of mind.
 



FangsNfeet -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 7:47:20 PM)

The topic of who Jesus really was is not a disturbing topic for me at all.

The bottom line is that Cameron just decided to say "Hocus Pokus" and poof, there's the truth about Jesus and makes a show about what he says is actual fact. "I've found a tomb with bones, it must be Jesus and his family." Wow, what a conclusion. Since when did Cameron become an historian or archiologist?  

Cameron is not tackleing shit. He's just trying to make more money. His cash flow from Titanic finally sank and he's looking for work.

BTW, I have chops and they bite hard.   



FangsNfeet -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 7:59:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Thing here is simple.  Do we believe in the bible?  If so, what is Easter?

If we don't believe in the bible, what are we doing believing in Jesus to begin with?



Well, there's the Christian Easter and then there's its pre pagan holiday which some still celebrate based on the spring season. Either way, Easter is not mentioned in the bible.

Beliving in the bible. Victors are the one who write history. Translators who work for  a king who needs to controll the masses translated and selected books and letters together to form the bible. I belive in the bible, just not all of it. There's no question that the bible has errors in translation and the actual story. But we'll never know the whole truth for sure. To me, Adam, Eve, and Noah I consider to be stories rather than actual fact. 



FangsNfeet -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 8:04:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

And if you believe in the Bible, which God do you believe in?  The Old Testament God or the New Testament God?  I know Christians who wrestle with the fire & brimstone vs the compassionate overseer.


LOL. If I have to pay for the sins of my father, I'm doomed. Where is the esculator to hell? I might as well start heading down thanks to my dad. Old Testiment God, why must I suffer from my dads sins?    



Sinergy -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 9:25:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Thing here is simple.  Do we believe in the bible?  If so, what is Easter?



"How do we get from death, ressurrection,etc, to easter eggs, candy and rabbits?"  Robin Williams



FukinTroll -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 9:31:02 PM)

miracles do happen Sinergy.



LotusSong -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 9:37:08 PM)

Another thought.. if they do prove the validity of the bones as Jesus's.. would this constitute the "second coming" which is the harbringer of the end of the world?
 
Would this then confirm that Georgie boy is the anti-christ?



MsParados -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 9:53:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

And if you believe in the Bible, which God do you believe in?  The Old Testament God or the New Testament God?  I know Christians who wrestle with the fire & brimstone vs the compassionate overseer.


LOL. If I have to pay for the sins of my father, I'm doomed. Where is the esculator to hell? I might as well start heading down thanks to my dad. Old Testiment God, why must I suffer from my dads sins?    


Thats an easy one.... eye for an eye = jewish..... turn the other cheek = christan.
on a side note I think the story about Noah is based in some truth. There is evidence of a cataclimic flood surrounding the Dead Sea and Black Sea which would account for the destruction of their "known world". While I love the History, Discovery type channels they are by no means the final word on any topic and are still in the business of making a buck but maybe it will motivate some people to actually research something and form their first original thought.



cyberdude611 -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 9:57:10 PM)

All organized religion in my opinion is a sham. I'm not bashing the people that believe in a religion. That's their own business. But orgnaized religion relies on fear to keep the population in line. It is simply a means of control. That's all it is.

We can sit here and argue about this documentary or the validity of the DaVinci Code. But in my opinion, what makes the chruch's story any more valid? Because they say so? I don't belive or trust a damn thing that comes out of the Vatican. This is an organization that has lied countless times in the past. They have covered up numerious scientic findings and thrown scientists in jail that question the chruch's beliefs. This organization has killed millions of people over the past 1500 years. Yet I am supposed to simply accept their version of history? Give me a break!

The bible was written and directed by the Council of Nicaea. Who was head by bishops and the emperor Constatine. I seriously doubt truth had anything to do with this council. They removed, added, and changed things to the bible. Much of what they removed is lost and will never be found again. Yet this is the version of history I am supposed to go by?



MsParados -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/4/2007 10:33:05 PM)

Historically this is true but (there is always a but huh) canonical texts have survived through this time and are availible to translation and interpratation by todays scholars. The Catholic church has it's faults like anyother human run organization but to think that todays concepts of salvation, based on the principles of religion, is a big scam to keep people in line is outdated. Not even going to factor in the theory of "Infalliblity". Personally I don't think we landed on the moon but I call myself a Catholic w/o a thought.......



Rumtiger -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/5/2007 1:04:10 AM)

so...did anyone actually watch the damn thing? I did.



Rule -> RE: aaah Jesus? (3/5/2007 1:43:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Another thought.. if they do prove the validity of the bones as Jesus's.. would this constitute the "second coming" which is the harbinger of the end of the world?

Whether this is so or not, all of humanity and even the entire world most certainly is in imminent danger of being destroyed.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Would this then confirm that Georgie boy is the anti-christ?

He most certainly is.



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