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how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 4:47:57 AM

rollinonward05

Posts: 78
Joined: 9/11/2005
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How far can or should a Master or Dominant push the patience key with their sub/slave? I read this the other day and wondered
"The Dom declines to Indulge her wants"
How long before she gives up on the wantings and instead quietly dies inside from being too patient?"

rollin

Post #: 1

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 4:51:46 AM

joyinslavery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rollinonward05

How long before she gives up on the wantings and instead quietly dies inside from being too patient?"

rollin

With any luck, it will be a slow, steady decline.

Allowing for (impromptu) intervention.

Edited to add: Why am I posting the same answer twice????

< Message edited by joyinslavery -- 3/4/2007 4:54:40 AM >

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Post #: 2

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 4:55:34 AM

LaTigresse

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Barring any legal, or illegal substances which may either accelerate or slow the, ahhhhh........progress.

Or just turns to chocolate bonbons and soap operas instead.

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Post #: 3

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 5:00:13 AM

Quivver

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I suppose if she's not getting what she needs she'll be gone.

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Post #: 4

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 5:27:17 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I've always been of a firm belief that a sub does still have needs/wants of his/her own. Very rarely is it enough for one just to be happy in service based on their gift of submission alone. It is only natural for them to have ideas, desires, fantasies..... They may not always know how to express these things, which is why it is so important for the Dominant to make the necessary allowances for communitcation. A sub should always believe they are serving the One who is most worthy of their all. A sub who finds the sensation of pain exhilleranting will not stay long with a Dom/me who is unwilling to use different weapons to encourage different sensations. They will quickly become dissatisfied and move on to One who is willing to meet that need. How quickly the patience will run out will vary from instance to instace, but it most certainly will run out.

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 5

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 6:03:48 AM

ArgoGeorgia

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Joined: 2/9/2007
From: Atlanta, Georgia
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I think there would be multiple questions to ask with this.

First, how patient is the submissive? By too patient are we talking months on end or 27 hours? Many people are incredibly impatient, kind of a product of today's world, instant gratification a click away. If the submissive is incredibly impatient, then I imagine the Dom won't be able to push very far.

The second consideration is the intent of the Dom. Perhaps the Dom knows the submissive is incredibly impatient and is taking action to improve on this flaw. Or is it possible that the submissive is not 'indulging the wants' and needs of the Dom? This would mean that the Dom is withholding as a means of punishment or revenge.

But, if the submissive has been incredibly patient, indulged the whims and answered the needs of the Dom (aka been a good sub), and COMMUNICATED to their Dom that they have needs and the Dom either cannot or will not answer those needs, then I imagine a change in the relationship will be inevitable. It just depends on the overall patience of the submissive at that point.

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Post #: 6

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 10:51:35 AM

MasterFireMaam

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From: Charleston, WV
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This is totally depend on the person. Some people can wait for a long, long time...and never be hurt by it. Some people are crushed immediately. All we can do is use our best judgement. Hopefully, we've discussed this kind of thing BEFORE we've started to use it because it's something that can psychologically damage a person.

Master Fire

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(in reply to rollinonward05)

Post #: 7

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 11:05:38 AM

windchymes

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Patience should be pushed as long or as far as is needed to make a positive contribution to the relationship. Any further than that, and the necessity for it should be examined.

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Post #: 8

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 11:08:03 AM

Padriag

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I'm under no obligation to ascede to a submissive's wants. I will care for her needs. That she may be given some of those wants as rewards is something she earns. This has nothing to do with any childish game of button pushing for its own sake or petty forms of control. I see that in some, they push simply to see how far they can... often without considering the cost of doing so. Far wiser the dominant who does as he does for reasoned cause.

But then the irony is how many submissives, and people in general, have lost the capacity to differentiate their needs from their wants and treat both equally as though they were rights. A good example of this was something I saw a few moments of on a TV show the other day. I don't know the name of the show but apparently it involve a woman who was $20,000 in debt, sponging off her mother, and still living beyond her means. A financial coach of some sort was involved to help her sort her mess out. Part of this required her to change her lifestyle and learn to live within her means. She seemed unable to do this without constant fits of hysterics. When her credit cards were cut up she wept as though she'd just lost a child. She had a huge collection of DVDs which she was instructed to sell some of to help pay down her debt, she only sold 16. She felt she needed to have the other DVDs, needed to have cable TV, etc. These are not needs, they are wants... and people like that are prone to suffocate under the weight of all those wants.

Likewise, a submissive who demands their wants be met is acting similarly. If such a submissive were to pass me by, I think I would count myself fortunate for it. I will, without fail, attend to the needs of any submissive in my care. But her wants are something else, given as rewards or perhaps occasional gifts because it pleases me to do so. They become all the more treasured because of this.

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(in reply to rollinonward05)

Post #: 9

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 11:09:13 AM

SimplyMichael

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That is a vastly complicated question.

There is the choice/perception of the submissives if their needs are being met in the larger sense by the relationship as a whole.

And then the issue of the actual ART of being a dominant and making someone wait/beg/denying/whatever things to heighten the power exchange.

There isn't a yes/no answer to that question.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 10

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 12:16:03 PM

happypervert

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From: Scranton, PA
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quote:

How long before she gives up on the wantings and instead quietly dies inside from being too patient?"

I reject this notion that such patience must result in a sub quietly dying inside, but I suspect you've posed your question while leaving out a specific example you have in mind so your question really makes no sense to me.

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Post #: 11

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 12:21:29 PM

Totalmaster4you

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There's insufficient information to answer your question. The sub/slave may be being punished for example. However if needs aren't being met and it's a new relationship then there were probably many warning flags that the sub/slave ignored hoping it would change. If this is the case you can try professional counseling but odds are it wont change it will get worse.

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Post #: 12

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 2:04:21 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rollinonward05

How far can or should a Master or Dominant push the patience key with their sub/slave? I read this the other day and wondered
"The Dom declines to Indulge her wants"
How long before she gives up on the wantings and instead quietly dies inside from being too patient?"

rollin

Wants are absolutely irrelevant. His/her wants are the tools you have to punish or indulge with. Your only concern is that his/her needs are met.

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(in reply to rollinonward05)

Post #: 13

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 2:26:50 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rollinonward05

How far can or should a Master or Dominant push the patience key with their sub/slave? I read this the other day and wondered
"The Dom declines to Indulge her wants"
How long before she gives up on the wantings and instead quietly dies inside from being too patient?"

Apologies but I've read this several times and still can't work out what you're asking, particularly how it relates to the broad and loose parameters of your quote.

Are you wanting to know about "working room"? IE, on one hand a Dom with a new sub may choose to progress slowly, esp if she's inexperienced, whereas that particular sub just wants to "dive in" and feel it all, NOW?

Focus.

(in reply to rollinonward05)

Post #: 14

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 3:34:46 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

But then the irony is how many submissives, and people in general, have lost the capacity to differentiate their needs from their wants and treat both equally as though they were rights.

Padrig,

Even from this side of kneeling, you make a beautiful point. Many in this life have confused needs and wants and rights...

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Post #: 15

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 4:29:27 PM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
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From: Portland oregon
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One of the hardest things in a D/s relationship is indeed when to know how far is how far and what battles to win any any cost

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Post #: 16

RE: how far to push patience - 3/4/2007 7:35:07 PM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rollinonward05

How far can or should a Master or Dominant push the patience key with their sub/slave? I read this the other day and wondered
"The Dom declines to Indulge her wants"
How long before she gives up on the wantings and instead quietly dies inside from being too patient?"

rollin

I am under no obligation to give in to melissa's 'wants' at all. Her needs yes; her wants, no. That does not mean that there are never times that I may surprise her with something that she wants; only that she knows not to expect it.

(in reply to rollinonward05)

Post #: 17

RE: how far to push patience - 3/5/2007 4:16:52 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

Wants are absolutely irrelevant. His/her wants are the tools you have to punish or indulge with. Your only concern is that his/her needs are met.

Sorry but I disagree. If her wants are never fulfilled, are denied as a matter of course, she will eventually give up on the relationship and look for something more fulfilling. And someone more compatible.

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 18

RE: how far to push patience - 3/5/2007 4:20:42 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

How long before she gives up on the wantings and instead quietly dies inside from being too patient?"

I reject this notion that such patience must result in a sub quietly dying inside, but I suspect you've posed your question while leaving out a specific example you have in mind so your question really makes no sense to me.

Don't discount it too fast my friend.
I'm one of those subs.
When you have needs you mention that don't even seem to register to a Dom when you've focused all you do on his happiness it's very painful to have your needs (NOT WANTS BUT NEEDS) neglected & have no choice but to be released or stay unhappy and unconsidered.

For example I need to serve my Dom. IF I had one who'd not allow me to serve him in any capacity the fact he's naturally Dominant may make me stay and try to see if I can feel guided and useful for a while. If it ends up more of a vanilla relationship because he will not utilize your submission it reaches a point where you just know it's not going to happen with that person.. When several months later you long to submit at times other than scening and you have to move on because he's not in all that time found ways for you to serve him it can be hard for both indeed.
PS.. Not what's going on in my world, but you asked for an example.

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 19

RE: how far to push patience - 3/5/2007 4:26:40 AM

HisSongstress

Posts: 103
Joined: 3/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll
Wants are absolutely irrelevant. His/her wants are the tools you have to punish or indulge with. Your only concern is that his/her needs are met.

I agree with FukinTroll in theory here....I am thankful that my Sir listens to me express my wants (so neither of us think that they are "irrelevant.") But I really don't want him to act on them. As he says...I just want to know that there is a Santa Claus, but I don't want to know what he is bringing me ....or even when he is going to show up.

I am thankful that my Sir forces me to be patient and is helping me to descern between my wants and needs. I am learning more and more that my wants are expectations. I hate having expectations...they interfere with my ability to simply be. If I share all my thoughts with my Sir, he determines what is best for me and chooses a course of action that meets my real needs. (When I used to see that statement from other submissives and slaves, I thought it was a cop out.....I now know there is such freedom in it.)

best!

...song...

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Post #: 20

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