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RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:15:30 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Why you chose the name of  "SANITY"  probably goes right to the heart of the problem ...

...

Then the  links you use to back any opinion you hold are all "Far Right Wing" sites...Everyone should simply dismiss your posts from this point forward.



Why you chose the name of  "SANITY"  probably goes right to the heart of the problem ...

That's mighty close to a personal attack, domiguy.


Then the  links you use to back any opinion you hold are all "Far Right Wing" sites...Everyone should simply dismiss your posts from this point forward.

Dismissing everything because you don't like the politics of the source isn't always a good thing.  Although any partisan agenda should be taken into account in understanding how an issue is framed and discussed, it should primarily give you reason to dig, and see if the full truth was given.

However, telling everyone to simply dismiss everything Sanity says only based on your preceived view about the "politics" of a site or person totally sidesteps the issue of whether or not the facts he presents - from where ever - are accurate.

In other words, you aren't attacking his ideas, you are attacking him as a person.

FirmKY


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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:18:06 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

And to all who say that Coulter is mirroring Franken....And quotes of Franken spewing his kind of venom can "easily" be found...Please back up this claim with some quotes. I would like to read them.


Who said Coulter was mirroring Franken?

Nobody that I know of...

What I said was that it looked to me like juliaoceania was mirroring Coulter.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/5/2007 11:22:15 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:20:40 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
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Status: offline 		I seem to recall the republicans demanding that Democratic candidates condemn Kerry last summer for his supposed insult of US troops.

Yep here is a story:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/10/31/kerry/index.html

Sure don't look like a double standard to me. Looks more like more conservatives whining and tryiong to get away with the big lie yet again

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:26:50 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I seem to recall the republicans demanding that Democratic candidates condemn Kerry last summer for his supposed insult of US troops.

Yep here is a story:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/10/31/kerry/index.html

Sure don't look like a double standard to me. Looks more like more conservatives whining and tryiong to get away with the big lie yet again


Close, but not the same.  From your source:

Snow said that Democratic candidates like Jim Webb and Tammy Duckworth should be asked whether they're in accord with Kerry's "absolute insult."

Perhaps you don't see the difference in asking someone to apologize for another person's remarks rather than asking them if they agree with those remarks, but I do.

FirmKY



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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:32:46 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		So I can ask every republican candidate, anywhere ever, if they agree with David Duke or Tan Nguyen? How is that not an attempt to make someone else apologize for or condemn the actions of another?

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:42:34 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So I can ask every republican candidate, anywhere ever, if they agree with David Duke or Tan Nguyen? How is that not an attempt to make someone else apologize for or condemn the actions of another?


If they had given any indications that they were sympathetic with Duke or Nguyen, or if Duke or Nguyen were senior, leading figures in the Republican party ... yes.

The issue of the war in Iraq and the state of our military services was a campaign issue in the last election.

FirmKY


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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:46:19 AM   
Zensee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

And to all who say that Coulter is mirroring Franken....And quotes of Franken spewing his kind of venom can "easily" be found...Please back up this claim with some quotes. I would like to read them.


Who said Coulter was mirroring Franken?

Nobody that I know of...

What I said was that it looked to me like juliaoceania was mirroring Coulter.


It was mentioned some time ago in this thread but I guess people who just jump in to the middle of a discussion without regard for what has already been said might have missed that.

You'll have to do better than comparing juliaO to Coulter. Coulter advocated the use of terror and mayhem to silence her political rivals. juliaO disagreed with you. You must have run that through a remarkable ego filter to arrive at your conclusion.

Kinky folks may be long on imagination but some credibility gaps are just too vast to be bridged by labeling and name calling.


Z.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:56:17 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

And to all who say that Coulter is mirroring Franken....And quotes of Franken spewing his kind of venom can "easily" be found...Please back up this claim with some quotes. I would like to read them.


Who said Coulter was mirroring Franken?

Nobody that I know of...

What I said was that it looked to me like juliaoceania was mirroring Coulter.


It was mentioned some time ago in this thread but I guess people who just jump in to the middle of a discussion without regard for what has already been said might have missed that.



It wasn't. 

Please refer to my post 60, quoted below, with a link to the post he was talking about, I believe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

And to all who say that Coulter is mirroring Franken....And quotes of Franken spewing his kind of venom can "easily" be found...Please back up this claim with some quotes. I would like to read them.


I'd guess you'd be talking about me.

But, that's not what I said.  Go back and read my words again, more closely this time, please.

FirmKY

edited to add link to the post in question:  Post 36


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:56:22 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Duke and Nguyen were both GOP nominees for federal elected offices, Duke has been a member of the GOP caucus in the La. stae house. Looks like they're both pretty senior leading figures in the party.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 11:58:08 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Duke and Nguyen were both GOP nominees for federal elected offices, Duke has been a member of the GOP caucus in the La. stae house. Looks like they're both pretty senior leading figures in the party.


I guess what you are saying then, is that they are of equal stature as JF Kerry? 

FirmKY


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 12:00:31 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		No. I'm just stating that IMO they both meet the criteria you gave. Now if you're done trying to put words in my mouth you might want to admit that what Snow and the White House dirty tricks crew were up to last summer is precisely the same thing being decried in this thread.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 12:06:28 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How is that not an attempt to make someone else apologize for or condemn the actions of another?


To me, the issue is that an apology assumes guilt.  In other words, when you ask for someone to apologize for someone else's actions or remarks, then you are assuming that not only do they agree, but that they actually said those things themselves.

That's collective guilt ... collectivism ... which is the basis of a lot of the worst in politics and human affairs.

Asking someone if they agree with a different individual's comments or actions at least gives them the benefit of the doubt, and gives them the opportunity to either take on, or deny those words, or actions.

A small point, perhaps, but I think it goes to the crux of the differences between the two major philosophies of the "left" and the "right".

FirmKY

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 12:15:15 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No. I'm just stating that IMO they both meet the criteria you gave. Now if you're done trying to put words in my mouth you might want to admit that what Snow and the White House dirty tricks crew were up to last summer is precisely the same thing being decried in this thread.


No need to get snippy, DomKen.  I've got respect for you, and your position.  I think I've been pretty straight forward and friendly about it. 

As far as "putting words in your mouth", please notice the "I guess what you are saying", with a question mark ... as well as the little smile.

Asking you what you meant is far from "putting words in your mouth".  It's an attempt to understand your point of view.

FirmKY

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 3/5/2007 12:17:32 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 5:18:30 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Dom Ken, you think a guy who ran as a Democrat in 04 then tried to run as a rep in 06 and lost is a senior leading member of the party?
That a guy who was a minor state rep caucusing with the republicans, untill he was kicked out of the party, is a senior leading member of the party?

Are you kidding us?   You can not actually believe that can you?  Even more funny is that both of the guys you mentioned were former Democrats.

By the way according to wikipedia he only ran for federal office as a Democrat.  He attempted to as a rep, but never was able to win a primary. 

Senior leading members of the Party my ass crack....

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 5:58:18 PM   
Arpig


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Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Probably because the right pretends to hold the moral high ground....when you play holier-than-thou and turn out to be human, one should expect to be held to one's own professed ideals


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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 6:01:27 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

It was mentioned some time ago in this thread but I guess people who just jump in to the middle of a discussion without regard for what has already been said might have missed that.



That's why I asked the question, Zensee. I have a life, and I don't have time to read every single message in every thread I chime in on, and as a matter of fact there are even certain posters who I skip reading altogether for various reasons.

I hope you don't mind.

quote:

 
You'll have to do better than comparing juliaO to Coulter. Coulter advocated the use of terror and mayhem to silence her political rivals. juliaO disagreed with you. You must have run that through a remarkable ego filter to arrive at your conclusion.



Read my post more carefully, and you'll learn that that wasn't the basis for my comparison. What I was getting at was the fact that they both have very bitter tongues for the other end of the political spectrum from which they themselves stand, and so your complaint is without foundation.


quote:

Kinky folks may be long on imagination but some credibility gaps are just too vast to be bridged by labeling and name calling.
Z.



How's that saying go, pot/kettle/black...?

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 6:07:53 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Are you trying to suggest that no one should ever stand up for what's right because we're all human, and prone to making mistakes?

What kind of argument is that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Probably because the right pretends to hold the moral high ground....when you play holier-than-thou and turn out to be human, one should expect to be held to one's own professed ideals



< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/5/2007 6:17:09 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 7:24:38 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
To me, the issue is that an apology assumes guilt.  In other words, when you ask for someone to apologize for someone else's actions or remarks, then you are assuming that not only do they agree, but that they actually said those things themselves.

That's collective guilt ... collectivism ... which is the basis of a lot of the worst in politics and human affairs.

Asking someone if they agree with a different individual's comments or actions at least gives them the benefit of the doubt, and gives them the opportunity to either take on, or deny those words, or actions.

A small point, perhaps, but I think it goes to the crux of the differences between the two major philosophies of the "left" and the "right".

FirmKY

Collectivism is a leftist only fault?

What about when GWB said on 9/20/01 "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

What about George H.W. Bush said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots."

What about all the times a republican questioned the patriotism of a liberal based solely on his political affiliation?

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 7:27:59 PM   
WyrdRich


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Probably because the right pretends to hold the moral high ground....when you play holier-than-thou and turn out to be human, one should expect to be held to one's own professed ideals




      True, Arpig, and false at the same time.  The Fundy influence on the right has led to claims of the moral high ground on "family values" and such, but the left does exactly the same thing when it comes to "tolerance, compassion" and "diversity."  It's mostly a crock on both sides.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The Double Standard rears it's head - 3/5/2007 7:47:25 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Remember when Michael Moor had the premier for his 9/11 propaganda film, and all the Dem movers and shakers attended?

Wasn't it Daschal that hugged him after it was over?

Not a single apology or "hey, his facts are wrong" out of any Dem that I remember.  Just kudos and "Yeah man!  Kick 'em!"

FirmKY


FirmhandKY:
Which of Michael Moor's facts were wrong?
thompson

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Profile   Post #: 80
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