RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (Full Version)

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Gauge -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 9:08:57 PM)

quote:

Of course it was an act of religious fervor, farglebargle.  Don't be so ridiculous!!! You're kidding. Right?? Don't tell me you're the only one in the world who doesn't know what radical Muslims are fighting for. We are the great Satan... and we must submit to the will of Allah, and bow to Mecca. Convert or die, that is our choice, and these are their terms.

Period.

You really didn't know that???

Wow...


So... allow me to get this straight, Iran and Iraq are full of Muslim extremists? In fact, the peaceful Muslims are a small, powerless minority? Is this what you are trying to tell me?

Fundamental Christians exist but they are far from the ruling class in America... I really find it hard to swallow that Muslim extremists are the ruling class in Iran or Iraq.

And where does North Korea fit into this? North Korea is Muslim? I don't get the connection to my OP.

Your position, if I understand it, is that it is fine to boss everyone around just because of a few people? Just because we CAN boss someone around doesn't mean that we SHOULD.



caitlyn -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 9:29:14 PM)

I think we should give a huge amount of free military aid to countries that are enemies of countries that support these criminal groups we call terrorists. [;)][;)]



farglebargle -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 9:33:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I think we should give a huge amount of free military aid to countries that are enemies of countries that support these criminal groups we call terrorists. [;)][;)]


Let me see if I get this right. The USA should pay off for arguments sake, the Lebanese, so the Lebanese pay off some fringe group fighting against Iran?






caitlyn -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 9:38:43 PM)

Must have been a little too subtle a joke ... or, the tin foil hats are a little tight this time of year.
 
One or the other ... or both.



farglebargle -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 9:46:46 PM)

Well, the reason I ask is exactly that case has come up, and guess who was picked by the Lebanese to get laundered USA money to fight Iran?

Those wacky Sunnis, Al Quaida. Who is also fighting the Shia/Iran faction.

I'd be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.




cyberdude611 -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 10:20:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Of course it was an act of religious fervor, farglebargle. Don't be so ludicrous!!! You're kidding yourself. Right?? That's ALL it was.


I'll take the opinions of the 9/11 Commission over that opinion of yours, but thanks for sharing.

quote:


We are the great Satan... and we must submit to the will of Allah - convert or die, that is our choce, and these are their terms.

Period.


I don't know if this is your opinion or a representation of what you believe their opinion is. There's a difference.

Anyone who BELIEVES that is as fundamentally closed-minded and bigoted as the worst of them. It's the naive belief of the ignorant, rooted in fear and ignorance. It is... "Unsophisticated" I suppose the best work would be, "Uncultured". The problem is, they are sophisticated, and based on their preference for strip clubs and top shelf liquor, to some degree, cultured.




It's amazing. Western civilization has survived over the years countless threats from tyrants, the corrupt popes, fascism, communism, Nazism, etc, etc, etc...  But it now, in the 21st century, about to come to a total collapse because of the left-wing's obsession with political correctness and multi-culturalism. And their continued stupidity of the world around them. You truely believe that Islam means peace? By defenition, Islam means "surrender." The Quran justifies lies and killings against infadels (who are non-muslims). This is not a religion of peace by any stretch of the imagination. And it is already taking over our civilization. We have already lost.



farglebargle -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 10:33:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It's amazing. Western civilization has survived over the years countless threats from tyrants, the corrupt popes, fascism, communism, Nazism, etc, etc, etc... But it now, in the 21st century, about to come to a total collapse


I disagree.

quote:


because of the left-wing's obsession with political correctness and multi-culturalism. And their continued stupidity of the world around them.


As a Traditional Conservative, I don't know how that applies to my comments, so let's continue forward....

quote:


You truely believe that Islam means peace? By defenition, Islam means "surrender."


Surrender, Submission, So what? It's not MY Surrender. It's not MY Submission. It's not MY problem.

What is being lost in this blanket characterization is the simple fact that Orthodox Observant Muslims are as rare as Orthodox Observant Evangelical Christians. Sure they're out there. And SOME of them are pretty fucking crazy.

Most however are not. Most Muslims like nothing better than a nice cold drink and watching some porno. And the faster we get the place wired up for TCP/IP the sooner we can continue the subversion of their cultural moors.

quote:


The Quran justifies lies and killings against infadels (who are non-muslims).


You ever read the Old Testament? Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death” Pretty crazy, huh? Just for saying G-ddamn!




cyberdude611 -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 10:47:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It's amazing. Western civilization has survived over the years countless threats from tyrants, the corrupt popes, fascism, communism, Nazism, etc, etc, etc... But it now, in the 21st century, about to come to a total collapse


I disagree.

quote:


because of the left-wing's obsession with political correctness and multi-culturalism. And their continued stupidity of the world around them.


As a Traditional Conservative, I don't know how that applies to my comments, so let's continue forward....

quote:


You truely believe that Islam means peace? By defenition, Islam means "surrender."


Surrender, Submission, So what? It's not MY Surrender. It's not MY Submission. It's not MY problem.

What is being lost in this blanket characterization is the simple fact that Orthodox Observant Muslims are as rare as Orthodox Observant Evangelical Christians. Sure they're out there. And SOME of them are pretty fucking crazy.

Most however are not. Most Muslims like nothing better than a nice cold drink and watching some porno. And the faster we get the place wired up for TCP/IP the sooner we can continue the subversion of their cultural moors.

quote:


The Quran justifies lies and killings against infadels (who are non-muslims).


You ever read the Old Testament? Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death” Pretty crazy, huh? Just for saying G-ddamn!




The vast majority of christians dont even follow most of what's in Leviticus. But in Islam you got 10-20% of the Islamic population that is radicalized. And I NEVER hear any of these so-called "good, peaceful muslims" come out and condemn terror attacks. They never come out and criticize what their fellow followers are doing to their faith. It is being radicalized.

As for the mid-east, especially Iraq, the people there are either all radicals are all extremely stupid. The people that is destroying that nation (and the region) is not the United States but these radical mullahs and religious leaders like Muqtada Al-Sadr who if I was running this war would have been shot in the head a hell of a long time again. Along with Amadinejad who is so filled with hate that he wants a nuclear bomb to annihilate the state of Israel.
If the "good muslims" are numbering in so many, why are they not shutting down the radicalism within their mosques and their religion? Like I said, either they agree with it, or they are just plain dumb. Which in that case, they deserve the death and dictatorship they are recieving.



farglebargle -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/6/2007 11:05:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The vast majority of christians dont even follow most of what's in Leviticus.


Just like the vast majority of Muslims don't even follow most of what's in the Koran. Get the picture?

quote:


But in Islam you got 10-20% of the Islamic population that is radicalized.


I'll disagree about that number. Figure Muslims and Christians split most of the population, with about 2.2 billion each. That's 440 MILLION radical Muslims. I don't buy it. With 440 Million troops, it's already over. Since it's not over, there ain't 440 million troops. Where did you get that percentage? It's suspect.

quote:


And I NEVER hear any of these so-called "good, peaceful muslims" come out and condemn terror attacks. They never come out and criticize what their fellow followers are doing to their faith. It is being radicalized.


There's tons of condemnation. You really should do some homework before making a claim like that.

Googling "muslim condemnation of terror attacks" returned over a *million* pages. Here's one at random from 2001.

"CHICAGO, Sept 12 (IslamOnline) - Muslim scholars in North America unanimously condemned the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon and expressed their deep sorrow and sympathy for those Americans who were killed and injured.

The Detroit-based Shari'a Scholars Association of North America (SSANA) strongly condemned the attack and said that there is no cause that justifies "this type of an immoral and inhumane act that has affected so many innocent American lives."

quote:


As for the mid-east, especially Iraq, the people there are either all radicals are all extremely stupid.


Well let the implications of that statement to your credibility go unexamined for the nonce.

quote:


The people that is destroying that nation (and the region) is not the United States but these radical mullahs and religious leaders like Muqtada Al-Sadr who if I was running this war would have been shot in the head a hell of a long time again.


Since you don't even have the simple fact of recorded objections from the contemporary muslim community correct, what makes you thing this analysis is any more salient?

That aside, WHO removed Hussein, and permitted the Shia/Sunni/Kurd/Turk Civil War to break out? ( And don't you worry, the Kurd/Turk thing will heat up soon enough. ) Hussein was a vicious animal, but he kept all this shit under control.

Maybe Bush just wasn't man enough to do the job that needed doing? Maybe the job was always a dumb fucking idea, because the Iraqi People sure don't seem to want what we're trying to sell them.

quote:


Along with Amadinejad who is so filled with hate that he wants a nuclear bomb to annihilate the state of Israel.


No. He want Nuclear Energy to save the oil for export ( Tupperware will be far more important this century than gasoline ). He wants Nuclear Weapons because he saw what happened to Hussein and figures since the US rejected the request to negotiate in 2003, there's no other way to ensure the US does not invade than to rush into the Nuclear Club as fast as you can.

Worked for Kim in North Korea. Soon as he had the test ( THANKS PAKISTAN! ) the US takes him all serious and shit.

quote:


If the "good muslims" are numbering in so many, why are they not shutting down the radicalism within their mosques and their religion?


*I* do not see any radical muslims. I see the FBI setting people up in stings with Rats to give the appearance of some progress, but nothing of any concern. Except worries about the FBI and their Rats. Never trust a Rat. If they'll turn once, they'll turn again.

quote:


Like I said, either they agree with it, or they are just plain dumb. Which in that case, they deserve the death and dictatorship they are recieving.


But didn't y'all already make them free? They had elections. They're free. How can they have a dictator? Ain't we still occupying the country?



meatcleaver -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 1:46:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

As for the mid-east, especially Iraq, the people there are either all radicals are all extremely stupid. The people that is destroying that nation (and the region) is not the United States but these radical mullahs and religious leaders like Muqtada Al-Sadr who if I was running this war would have been shot in the head a hell of a long time again. Along with Amadinejad who is so filled with hate that he wants a nuclear bomb to annihilate the state of Israel.
If the "good muslims" are numbering in so many, why are they not shutting down the radicalism within their mosques and their religion? Like I said, either they agree with it, or they are just plain dumb. Which in that case, they deserve the death and dictatorship they are recieving.


You are an ideal candidate for political propaganda. I doubt the Iranian ambition to have a nuclear weapon is to nuke Israel which incidently has nukes to which the US doesn't object (smacks of hypocrisy, that you can't deny), it is more likely to stop outside interference, particularly by the USA. The west has meddled in the middle east for one hundred years so it could exploit the region for oil, no wonder no decent governments have evolved. The USA along with Britain has supported coups and oppression to exploit other people's resources. Why should these people trust the west, we have basically been robbing them for a century and supporting their corrupt governments, we even overthrew A DEMOCRATIC government in Iran to keep terms favourable.

Do me a favour and stop blaming everyone else for being irrational raving lunatics and look in the mirror. The west radicalized the middle east and if it wants to unradicalize it, threatening it and treating them as aggressors when they have been victims won't solve the problem.



Sanity -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 5:04:25 AM)

You and President Bush have the same idea. Get rid of the destabilzing factors (Saddam & Sons, Iran, Syria) so so they may finally join our century, and come out of the stone age. Wow... maybe you really are a Conservative. You're just like Bush!

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Most however are not. Most Muslims like nothing better than a nice cold drink and watching some porno. And the faster we get the place wired up for TCP/IP the sooner we can continue the subversion of their cultural moors.




farglebargle -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 7:40:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You and President Bush have the same idea.



WRONG AGAIN!

quote:


Get rid of the destabilzing factors (Saddam & Sons, Iran, Syria) so so they may finally join our century,


NO, NO, NO. That is the IRAQI'S, IRANIANS and SYRIANS jobs. It's our job to sell iPods.

quote:


and come out of the stone age. Wow... maybe you really are a Conservative. You're just like Bush!


Bush IS NOT AND NEVER WAS a Conservative. Just more of his lies. How do we know? What's the National DEBT?



Gauge -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 8:33:18 AM)

quote:

It's amazing. Western civilization has survived over the years countless threats from tyrants, the corrupt popes, fascism, communism, Nazism, etc, etc, etc...  But it now, in the 21st century, about to come to a total collapse because of the left-wing's obsession with political correctness and multi-culturalism. And their continued stupidity of the world around them. You truely believe that Islam means peace? By defenition, Islam means "surrender." The Quran justifies lies and killings against infadels (who are non-muslims). This is not a religion of peace by any stretch of the imagination. And it is already taking over our civilization. We have already lost.


Huh? Please explain to me how acceptance of different cultures threatens our sovereignty. Albeit I do not care for political correctness I do not see how that threatens to topple Western civilization.

So, how do you answer my question of what gives us the right to boss everyone around? Is it your contention that Muslims and the Muslim religion take a direct stance against the West or is it a certain faction within the Muslim community that does this? Based on your answer to the latter question does that then give us the right to tell them what to do?



ferryman777 -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 9:17:55 AM)

Hello, with all this banter, you guys all have some good points, I'm learning alot. To sum it up, the US does what it will, no matter what, the other guy gets the bomb, so the US nukes the hell out of them, if they could; invades at the least;  NO ONE gets the bomb except US. It's what keeps US in control. The countries all object to the US Imperialism; but they all will be BORG; in the end.
Wars are sold as.....to protect the homeland, to protect your rights and freedom, to protect home, hearth and kinder.
How come no one mentions the wealth and resources the other guy has; that we and the world need to exist; to enjoy life as we know it. That is never an issue. I mean, the president is not going to go on air and say...."We have a great natural resource over there, and the world is dependant upon it, so we've decided to go get that resource for ourselves, and then we will control the world's supply. We will decide price, and who is allocated how much; of course according to need and how much they pay. It'll make our life easier, cheaper for everyone, and the world will be a safer, secure place for everyone to enjoy the finer things it has to offer. The world will be free from treath, turmoil, and war; and I have appointed the 'right' men to administer this endeavour. Those of you who are with me, stand up; the rest of you who are not with me I can see are the enemies of progress and freedom. Are those who would plunge our American way of life into choas and slavery; our children will be murdered in their beds as they sleep."
The US boasts of 'Freedom'... but they do not finish the sentence;  Freedom....to exploit and extort, interfer and dictate.
Does anyone rember GATT and NAFTA ?
I remember hearing on radio Bush sr, up to a few days before Clinton took command, hand carried the documents to be signed and approved......Clinton had to make it official, that's all; done deal. And...Clinton took the blame and heat.
NAFTA was sold as it would make things cheaper, life would be easier, more goods on the market for the consumer to enjoy; jobs will be created, we'll have more money to buy the things we want and enjoy.
An example.....tomatoes went from 25 cents a Lb. to topping 5 bucks per Lb.; lettuce went from 5 cents and 15 cents a head to now....1.25 a head.  So there goes your burger. And.....how about gasoline.
If you want to get along.....>go along. If not....problem.



cyberdude611 -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 9:34:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

It's amazing. Western civilization has survived over the years countless threats from tyrants, the corrupt popes, fascism, communism, Nazism, etc, etc, etc...  But it now, in the 21st century, about to come to a total collapse because of the left-wing's obsession with political correctness and multi-culturalism. And their continued stupidity of the world around them. You truely believe that Islam means peace? By defenition, Islam means "surrender." The Quran justifies lies and killings against infadels (who are non-muslims). This is not a religion of peace by any stretch of the imagination. And it is already taking over our civilization. We have already lost.


Huh? Please explain to me how acceptance of different cultures threatens our sovereignty. Albeit I do not care for political correctness I do not see how that threatens to topple Western civilization.

So, how do you answer my question of what gives us the right to boss everyone around? Is it your contention that Muslims and the Muslim religion take a direct stance against the West or is it a certain faction within the Muslim community that does this? Based on your answer to the latter question does that then give us the right to tell them what to do?


Its not about acceptance or tolerance. If you look at Europe, they are letting these muslim immigrants in by so many numbers that they are basically taking over the European cultures that have been in place for hundreds of years. Go to Italy and you will see that there is starting to be a decay of the Italian culture and society. The many of the children are not Italians, they are muslims. The same thing is happening in France.
If you go to Paris, go to the outskirts of the city. You will find these muslim ghettos where crime, poverty, and unemployment is high. The racial tentions between these immigrant muslims and the French population are growing worse very fast. Like I said earlier, 25% of the French population under age 21 is muslim. By 2025, the muslims will have 25% of the entire French population. That is well more than enough to have a major impact in French politics and society. By 2050, Islam will have a majority in France.

You are asking me if we have the right to tell the muslims what to do? Well I am asking you if the muslims have a right to tell us what to do?



Gauge -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 10:46:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

It's amazing. Western civilization has survived over the years countless threats from tyrants, the corrupt popes, fascism, communism, Nazism, etc, etc, etc...  But it now, in the 21st century, about to come to a total collapse because of the left-wing's obsession with political correctness and multi-culturalism. And their continued stupidity of the world around them. You truely believe that Islam means peace? By defenition, Islam means "surrender." The Quran justifies lies and killings against infadels (who are non-muslims). This is not a religion of peace by any stretch of the imagination. And it is already taking over our civilization. We have already lost.


Huh? Please explain to me how acceptance of different cultures threatens our sovereignty. Albeit I do not care for political correctness I do not see how that threatens to topple Western civilization.

So, how do you answer my question of what gives us the right to boss everyone around? Is it your contention that Muslims and the Muslim religion take a direct stance against the West or is it a certain faction within the Muslim community that does this? Based on your answer to the latter question does that then give us the right to tell them what to do?


Its not about acceptance or tolerance. If you look at Europe, they are letting these muslim immigrants in by so many numbers that they are basically taking over the European cultures that have been in place for hundreds of years. Go to Italy and you will see that there is starting to be a decay of the Italian culture and society. The many of the children are not Italians, they are muslims. The same thing is happening in France.
If you go to Paris, go to the outskirts of the city. You will find these muslim ghettos where crime, poverty, and unemployment is high. The racial tentions between these immigrant muslims and the French population are growing worse very fast. Like I said earlier, 25% of the French population under age 21 is muslim. By 2025, the muslims will have 25% of the entire French population. That is well more than enough to have a major impact in French politics and society. By 2050, Islam will have a majority in France.

You are asking me if we have the right to tell the muslims what to do? Well I am asking you if the muslims have a right to tell us what to do?


It is ironic that you didn't answer my questions.

So if I understand what it is you are trying to say, we should impede the growth of any Muslim nation to quell the rise in population of their folowers? Sounds a lot like you want to eradicate Muslims. Our right to exist is no more important than their right to exist.

And in answer to your question: No, the Muslims have no right to tell us what to do and that road travels both ways.



farglebargle -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 10:46:24 AM)

You guys need to adopt our Constitution, with it's protections against Sharia Law gaining ground, due to the separation of Church and State.




meatcleaver -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 11:14:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Its not about acceptance or tolerance. If you look at Europe, they are letting these muslim immigrants in by so many numbers that they are basically taking over the European cultures that have been in place for hundreds of years. Go to Italy and you will see that there is starting to be a decay of the Italian culture and society. The many of the children are not Italians, they are muslims. The same thing is happening in France.
If you go to Paris, go to the outskirts of the city. You will find these muslim ghettos where crime, poverty, and unemployment is high. The racial tentions between these immigrant muslims and the French population are growing worse very fast. Like I said earlier, 25% of the French population under age 21 is muslim. By 2025, the muslims will have 25% of the entire French population. That is well more than enough to have a major impact in French politics and society. By 2050, Islam will have a majority in France.

You are asking me if we have the right to tell the muslims what to do? Well I am asking you if the muslims have a right to tell us what to do?


This is not true. There are 450 million people in the EU and between 20-25 million of those are muslim, that is under 5% of the population. Not all muslims are dangerous radical fundementalists, just like not all American Christians are dangerous radical fundementalists. The difference is though, American Christian fundementalists have a big influence in American politics, where muslims have no influence on political power in the EU other than through the ballot box and even there, many muslims are not qualified to vote because they are migrant workers. Should one incorporate none EU areas of Europe and the % of muslims goes down.



Sanity -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 11:41:28 AM)

How can we sell iPods if Saddam Insane's spending the peoples' oil revenues on torturing everybody and starting a new war every 20 years, and the Ayatollahs in Iran ban anything that's even remotely modern.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
It's our job to sell iPods.



farglebargle -> RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites (3/7/2007 11:47:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

How can we sell iPods if Saddam Insane's spending the peoples' oil revenues on torturing everybody and starting a new war every 20 years, and the Ayatollahs in Iran ban anything that's even remotely modern.



Banning them just makes the kids want them more. ( And pay more for them. )

Back in DECEMBER, the AP printed this: " Western music, films and clothing are widely available in Iran, and hip-hop can be hard on Tehran's streets, blaring from car speakers or from music shops. Bootleg videos and DVDs of films banned by the state are widely available in the black market."




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