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-Vista, fine print. - 3/4/2007 12:55:00 PM   
pahunkboy


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after reading this- I dont think i will upgrade from xp.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6319845.stm







Vista gives a view of a new world

Internet law professor Michael Geist casts an eye over the fine print in Windows Vista and is concerned at what he finds.
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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/4/2007 1:13:11 PM   
SirKenin


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I do not really want to get into it, but suffice it to say that that article is a complete pile of shit.  Half the stuff he is bitching about is already incorporated into Windows XP, and his argument re: Windows Defender?  Absolutely weak and pathetic.  The guy needs to find himself a new hobby.

To put it bluntly, if you are not stealing things, you have nothing to worry about.  If you are, tough shit for you.

The only legitimate concerns with Vista, besides it's exceedingly high system requirements and demands on resources, is it's crackdown on the playing of MP3s, it's lack of driver support and it's problems with some software, particularly certain games that I like to play..  In the USA that is fine, as you have no business stealing MP3s anyways, states the USSC.  But in Canada it is legal to download them and to my knowledge there is no accomodation for that, although I had no problems with the betas.

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/4/2007 4:50:39 PM   
pahunkboy


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-hmm xp has much of that in it?  interesting.

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/4/2007 6:01:32 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I do not really want to get into it, but suffice it to say that that article is a complete pile of shit. Half the stuff he is bitching about is already incorporated into Windows XP, and his argument re: Windows Defender? Absolutely weak and pathetic. The guy needs to find himself a new hobby.

To put it bluntly, if you are not stealing things, you have nothing to worry about. If you are, tough shit for you.

The only legitimate concerns with Vista, besides it's exceedingly high system requirements and demands on resources, is it's crackdown on the playing of MP3s, it's lack of driver support and it's problems with some software, particularly certain games that I like to play.. In the USA that is fine, as you have no business stealing MP3s anyways, states the USSC. But in Canada it is legal to download them and to my knowledge there is no accomodation for that, although I had no problems with the betas.


Vista will keep me from listening to my MP3 files?

Do the people who make and release MP3 files aware of this? Because not every MP3 is in violation of Copyright law.
e.g.: MP3's produced from material in which one holds a Recording copyright.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/4/2007 7:49:15 PM   
sleazy


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Vista will cripple legally aquired high definition content, it was threaded on here earlier.

"this agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights".
Imagine if GM sold you a car, that you were only allowed to drive on certain streets at certain times with the dealers permission, and if you put winn dixie groceries in the trunk instead of walmart the car would refuse to start.

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 12:59:00 AM   
SirKenin


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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I do not really want to get into it, but suffice it to say that that article is a complete pile of shit. Half the stuff he is bitching about is already incorporated into Windows XP, and his argument re: Windows Defender? Absolutely weak and pathetic. The guy needs to find himself a new hobby.

To put it bluntly, if you are not stealing things, you have nothing to worry about. If you are, tough shit for you.

The only legitimate concerns with Vista, besides it's exceedingly high system requirements and demands on resources, is it's crackdown on the playing of MP3s, it's lack of driver support and it's problems with some software, particularly certain games that I like to play.. In the USA that is fine, as you have no business stealing MP3s anyways, states the USSC. But in Canada it is legal to download them and to my knowledge there is no accomodation for that, although I had no problems with the betas.


Vista will keep me from listening to my MP3 files?

Do the people who make and release MP3 files aware of this? Because not every MP3 is in violation of Copyright law.
e.g.: MP3's produced from material in which one holds a Recording copyright.




There are qualifications to that argument.  If you acquire rights to that file, much like you have to do in XP, then all is well.  If you do not, Vista will prevent you from playing them.  WMP 11 is designed to do that.  WMP 10 had some of that in it, but it was not as anal about it.

By default WMP phones home to acquire a license for your media.  If it cannot obtain one, it will refuse to play the file.  Buying MP3s from legitimate websites will contain sufficient licensing rights, for instance, but if you try and transfer them computer to computer in theory you will run into problems.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 2:48:53 AM   
bludemonn


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I am buying a new pc very soon but after reading some other reports notably one of Yahoo's tech editors report on Vista i think i'll pass with Vista as an OS, again the issue with the drivers is really not a good start, i actually do think that MS's reasons for bringing out a new OS had more to do with pressure from media companies with regards to files such as MP3's etc. I would LOVE to see a court ruling one day where ALL new pc's HAD to come with a choice of OS rather than be pre-installed as far as i am aware that is not the case at the moment also perhaps before any OS is released on the market there should be an independant panel who tests it for compatibility and privacy reasons, if it fails it dosen't get a licence to be sold, does anyone know if that is protocol?    

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 4:46:51 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Ok- on mp3 copywrites.  How about some of us who grew up in the 70s. Bought the 45, the LP, [ill skip the 8 track] cassette. why should we pay yet again the royalties will already bought?  My generation BOUGHT tons of records.

As far as todays music. It sucks.  Im stuck in the 80s.

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 5:17:50 AM   
ToServeIsToLive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin


There are qualifications to that argument.  If you acquire rights to that file, much like you have to do in XP, then all is well.  If you do not, Vista will prevent you from playing them.  WMP 11 is designed to do that.  WMP 10 had some of that in it, but it was not as anal about it.

By default WMP phones home to acquire a license for your media.  If it cannot obtain one, it will refuse to play the file.  Buying MP3s from legitimate websites will contain sufficient licensing rights, for instance, but if you try and transfer them computer to computer in theory you will run into problems.


Does Vista take into account amatuer produced MP3s, or are the only MP3s I'm allowed to play the ones released by the RIAA?

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 7:12:21 AM   
sub4hire


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I've been around a while.  I've been a beta tester for Microsoft at times.  I know the project managers personally on many of the products windows develop.

After being around through many, many releases.  Everything Microsoft releases is a pile of crap.  HOWEVER, they get feedback from a large chunk of the population and they are ever fixing it.
We have never wanted to upgrade from one OS to the other because of the problems associated with it.  Yet, they work them out for us while the OS is on our pc's.
3.1 was a piece of crap back then...so was 95 and 98, ME and XP.
Give it a few month's and I'm sure it will be good to go on anyone's pc.

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 8:12:43 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I do not really want to get into it, but suffice it to say that that article is a complete pile of shit. Half the stuff he is bitching about is already incorporated into Windows XP, and his argument re: Windows Defender? Absolutely weak and pathetic. The guy needs to find himself a new hobby.

To put it bluntly, if you are not stealing things, you have nothing to worry about. If you are, tough shit for you.

The only legitimate concerns with Vista, besides it's exceedingly high system requirements and demands on resources, is it's crackdown on the playing of MP3s, it's lack of driver support and it's problems with some software, particularly certain games that I like to play.. In the USA that is fine, as you have no business stealing MP3s anyways, states the USSC. But in Canada it is legal to download them and to my knowledge there is no accomodation for that, although I had no problems with the betas.


Vista will keep me from listening to my MP3 files?

Do the people who make and release MP3 files aware of this? Because not every MP3 is in violation of Copyright law.
e.g.: MP3's produced from material in which one holds a Recording copyright.




There are qualifications to that argument. If you acquire rights to that file, much like you have to do in XP, then all is well. If you do not, Vista will prevent you from playing them. WMP 11 is designed to do that. WMP 10 had some of that in it, but it was not as anal about it.

By default WMP phones home to acquire a license for your media. If it cannot obtain one, it will refuse to play the file. Buying MP3s from legitimate websites will contain sufficient licensing rights, for instance, but if you try and transfer them computer to computer in theory you will run into problems.


The issue here is, *I* own the recording copyright to the recording. By definition it is a Lawful Use. How the hell does WMP phone home to acquire the rights I enjoy under Copyright Law, which do NOT require any additional licensing.

Sounds like Vista just isn't usable to media professionals, which is OK, because all the pros use Macs anyway.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 8:59:24 AM   
OffTheBeatenTrak


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I do agree that alot of what is in the article is already a integral part of WinXp. The problem i have is choice, Microsoft are seemingly gradually taking the basic control of the system away from the user, by means of automated update systems, as just one example. I have expierence a couple of times a system update that has had a depremental effect upon my system, and with Windows being progresively more automated it is gradually getting harder to locate protiental causes of problems when linked to updates. These days i tend to turn off as much of the automated aspects of windows as i can, and use the firewall to block all other aspect that do not have the requirement to connect to the internet. I find updating manually prefferable, for reasons of being able to view and tracking and even prevent the changes that are being applied when updating. As left to it's own devices Windows would and does install alot of needless software that i would never use and would usally take system resoures, gradually slow my system down and which could even have a negative effect upon the system. I am hoping that the ability to prevent, choose or disable the automated systems of Windows is still apart of Windows Vista.

Microsoft is seemingly not alone with automated updates, i'm often plaiged by needless programs running with in memory and taking up valuable computer resourses and internet resourses. Often applications are trying to check daily for a monthly update. Having only a limited system spec, the number of needless programs running in the back ground has a compounded effect upon my system speed. I have noticed that alot of programs run certain parts of them self in memory whether they are running or not, the suppose reason is for the purpose of starting faster and automated updates. So a application that i only use once a month will seemingly have parts perminately running within the back ground, just in case. My problem is that acumulatively, the benifit of a faster application starts is lost due to the fact that so many application are doing the same thing, thus slowing the avarage system speed down and counteracting any speed benifit gain. Where as only running file and application that are in use or are needed would at this point be more benificial to me, rather than flooding the system resourses with crap that is not actually in use.

My current problem with Vista is the use of only Microsoft signed drivers, so i will be waiting a while before i even think of upgrading, so they can catch up in terms of driver signing, as my computer componants are not exactly the lastest, and thats even if they choose to back track that far. I am also waiting due to the fact the Microsoft products have never been to reliable so soon after release.

On the flip side of the coin, i'm sure independant parties will create various ways around certain aspect, inparticular apsects that are mentioned with in the article regarding Dvds and MP3s.

Also if people find Microsoft to controling or they just don't like them, then there are alternative operating systems out there, such Linux, Solarous to mention a couple. Such alternatives don't always get the credit and lime light that they deserve due to Microsoft grasp of the computer market, i.e. most computers are sold with windows pre-installed. While Windows has capatility advantages, the competing operating systems also do have there own advantages.

P.S. Further rantings...

Considering that i have had more problems caused by Microsoft updates than i have problems caused by anything else, more automation and increased updating is not something i would be over joyed about. But at present it's more benificial for me to run under WinXp, although i will swop to the alternative of Linux if it comes to the point where i no longer have control of my own system and Windows is creating more problems than it is solving.

Sorry about therambling, In short there's more pro than con with Windows so i'm prepared to live with it for the moment. Although if they start pushing there luck to far, then i have no problems with switching to alternative operating system. So there...

< Message edited by OffTheBeatenTrak -- 3/5/2007 9:20:47 AM >

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 9:55:31 AM   
Stephann


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Nobody's demonstrated to me any good reason to purchase Vista.  The hundreds of dollars could be better spent on a skinning package (Stardock can make any XP system look like a Vista) and a memory, hard drive, or video card upgrade.  Things that would -actually- improve the computer I am using.

Stephan


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Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 10:56:47 AM   
DomKen


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There is no good reason for an average person with a PC to upgrade to Vista. Software developers will of course need to get hold of the new OS as will other technical sorts.

However if you buy a new PC you'll get Vista.

Now onto the article the OP linked. For someone who claims to know computers the author is surprisingly uninformed. The whole OS needing to validate itself and potentially needing to revalidate if significant hardware changes occured was in XP. Most people never notice because they get XP as OEM and rarely make a big enough hardware change to trigger the revalidation.

As to the degraded quality of HD content, the owners of the technology involved in playing Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will not allow WMP to play that content at HD resolution. They want to sell Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players for HDTV's not sell a few discs to people who will play it on their PC's. Blaming MS for this is silly.

Defender is an anti spyware package. If it starts deleting stuff you don't want deleted simply disable it and go get adaware or some other competitor. However I strongly doubt the paranoid implication in the article will ever occur.

As to the whole MP3 thing. Blaming MS for avoiding the mother of all RIAA lawsuits is once again silly. Allowing the playing of MP3's without some way to verify that you have legal right to play the content sounds like aiding and abetting to me which sounds like an enormous judgement against MS if they didn't change WMP to require better rights management. BTW I ripped a CD on my Vista PC at work and had no trouble playing the MP3's. However when I transferred the files to a different Vista PC in the office and WMP refused to play them. So if you rip CD's using WMP 11 and then listen to those MP3's in WMP 11 on the same PC you shouldn't run into any trouble.

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 11:09:35 AM   
farglebargle


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"So if you rip CD's using WMP 11 and then listen to those MP3's in WMP 11 on the same PC you shouldn't run into any trouble."

Yes, but this infringes on your Fair Use rights, and any company which doesn't respect my rights, doesn't get my respect. Of course no-one with any real experience has respected Microsoft since the days of Gary Kildall.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 11:12:00 AM   
Termyn8or


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Geezys F______ Christ, this is so much up my alley I feel I have been violated.

I might have about 5,000 songs, MP3s downloaded from the internet. On my DESKTOP is a DOC file, which is intended to be a response to a lawsuit by the RIAA. Like the one where they 'granted' 'amnesty' if you delete everything and promise to never do it again. Such an offer would make me laugh !

FYI, I NEVER throw out a piece of media, or artwork or covers associated with that media. If the RIAA gets a SWAT team (y'all just don't realize how possible tht is, the FCC has one) and comes to my door I will enter every commercially produced CD, LP and cassette I own as evidence.

At that point I will complain loudly that they owe me what I bought, their media was faulty and has failed. I demand replacements and also agree to pay what I owe for what I have (about 5,000 songs), except for those things for which I have already paid.

For example, I have bought the LP and CD of Bob Segar's Double live bullet three times at the least. They owe me approximately $28 because I still don't have the whole thing.

One of these days I might get into a real life battle like this, and I'll say it now, it might might be a challenge, but I will show you what somebody with a F______ brain can do. But if anyone does this, remember you are not playing with kids.

I plan to walk in there with exhibits 1-33,534. Thirty three thousand pieces of evidence, after all that is proof that I did not steal from the plaintiff. No court in their right mind would disallow it, they would surely get overturned.

Thank my lucky stars that I have the update files for Win98SE. And MP9. I don't need anymore from them people. Within the family we own a copy of XP pro corporate editon. As XP goes, it is great, but I am not going to stick that disk in my PC. I do not want it.Corp edition is indeed the best version of XP you can get, but I think it is still over $400. Sometimes though, I wonder if it has everything that Win2000 advanced server had. I just dunno. Not a big issue.

The next time I feel the Microsoft dick poking at my ass, Gates will be gone. In a way I am already done, using 98 still. Mepis Linux ran pretty good on this box OFF THE CD ! I can't imagine how fast it would be off the harddrive.

It found my router, DSL modem all that. With Windows I had to look at the bottom and get the serial numkber and all kind of shit. Linux simply got online. Didn't ask me a single question. I clicked where you click to get online and I was online. That was it.

We should probly throw something into polls and stupidity, about who uses what OS. I think many would be surprised to see how many people actually do use Linux now, and then there are the MAC users. Funny how when my Mom got the best job of her life she had to learn the MAC OS. Funny how banks do not use Windows for anything important. Funny how MICROSOFT's corporate office does not use Windows, although that may have changed.

I read a really good article quite a while ago by someone in the know. They said that Microsoft, in trying to put features in, actually somwhat of a dynamic OS, they left a door open. Have you ever even hear of a virus that attack Linux or the MAC OS ? I haven't.

I am not saying to short Microsoft stock right now, but the day may come, and it might come soon. They have pretty much painted themselves into a corner.

I for one, am going enjoy watching them squirm.

T

PS

And I'll tell you what, when 98SE stops working, what I am going to do is to again stick the Linux disk in my PC, but this time, instead of running off the disk, I am going to tell it to INSTALL.

T

(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 11:15:29 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
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From: Portland, OR
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Briefly,

They day I buy a PC with anything installed on it, is the day I give up my Geek Association of America pocket protector up.

As for MP3s, I don't use Media Player.  Period.  I use VLC or Media Player Classic.  I encode my MP3s using LAME.  I encode AVIs using Xvid (usually.)  I am aware, I'm in the tiny minority that doesn't accept the force feeding of Windows. I don't even use Explorer; I have Blackbox for a shell interface (it loads about twice as fast as Explorer.) 

The fault doesn't lie with Microsoft, that they did a good job with selling a tricky system. The fault lies in the consumers forking out billions of dollars for half-finished garbage that says 'all in one.'  We see the same thing in 'Lunchables' posing as a substitute for a genuinely nutritious lunch.  I wonder if people even know how to -slice- cheese anymore.

Stephan


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Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 11:17:23 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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After reading the "Expert" testimony offered by the RIAA in one of their current court cases, you have nothing to fear.

Here's a sample.

Q. Has your method of determining from
the MediaSentry materials whether a particular
computer has been used for uploading or downloading
copyrighted works been tested by any testing body?

A. Not that I have submitted.
Q. Do you know anyone else that is using
your method, other than you?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. Has your method of determining
through the MediaSentry materials whether a
particular computer has been used for uploading or
downloading copyrighted works been subjected to any
form of peer review?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. Has your method of determining from
the MediaSentry materials whether a computer has
been used for uploading or downloading copyrighted
works been published?
A. No.
Q. Is there a known rate of error for
your method?
A. No.
Q. Is there a potential rate of error?
MR. GABRIEL: Object to the form.
A. I guess there is always a potential
of an error.
Q. Do you know of a rate of error?
A. To my process, no.

Q. Are there any standards and controls
over what you have done?
A. No.
Q. Have your methods been generally
accepted in the scientific community?
A. The process has not been vetted
through the scientific community.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 11:28:43 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"So if you rip CD's using WMP 11 and then listen to those MP3's in WMP 11 on the same PC you shouldn't run into any trouble."

Yes, but this infringes on your Fair Use rights, and any company which doesn't respect my rights, doesn't get my respect. Of course no-one with any real experience has respected Microsoft since the days of Gary Kildall.


Your complaint has nothing to do with MS. It has to do with RIAA.

In the next couple of years every MP3 player out there is going to have digital rights management since none of those companies want to lose their shirts in an RIAA lawsuit either.

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RE: -Vista, fine print. - 3/5/2007 11:32:48 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"So if you rip CD's using WMP 11 and then listen to those MP3's in WMP 11 on the same PC you shouldn't run into any trouble."

Yes, but this infringes on your Fair Use rights, and any company which doesn't respect my rights, doesn't get my respect. Of course no-one with any real experience has respected Microsoft since the days of Gary Kildall.


Your complaint has nothing to do with MS. It has to do with RIAA.

In the next couple of years every MP3 player out there is going to have digital rights management since none of those companies want to lose their shirts in an RIAA lawsuit either.


EVERY MP3 Player? That's a tall order. Especially considering all the open source implementations. Even if Archos needs to pretend to play, flashing their defective firmware will be trivial.

Anyone consider a Class Action against Creative for trashing th MuVo's ability to record from FM in an "update"?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 20
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