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A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 8:30:50 PM

tulinwl

Posts: 37
Joined: 3/4/2007
Status: offline

I am very new to this lifestyle and am currently digesting everything I can to learn more. This is in fact my very first post on this website. My questions are simple yet I hope they spark some lively discussion to help me understand.

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not? Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 8:42:17 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Surrender and obedience have nothing to do with personality, in particular with meekness that is often associated with submissiveness. For example, look at our armed forces. How many soldiers, who obey order without question, are meek?

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 2

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 8:48:11 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tulinwl

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not? Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

Angel is strong, independant to a fault, and he can be very assertive. He cannot be aggressive, it isnt in his nature. He submits quite successfully, and his success comes from knowing that there is a way to behave around me, and there is a way to behave around everyone else. The side of him I see is not one that anyone else ever will. To the rest of the waking world, he is a very confident, independant and occasionaly arrogant computer programmer. For me and me alone does he let down his guard and become something else.
I found it enticing in him, becasue I saw both sides equally when we were together depending on where we were. Knowing that he was so very independant and strong as part of his true peronslaity and that he can give himself up so completely to me becasue he trusts and lvoes me was an intoxicating notion. It still is.
It isnt a challenge. He is willing to give himself, and that wilingness is what makes it apealling. When someone is aggressive, independant and needs to be "broken" I lose interest quickly. My enjoyment comes from when someone gives themselves.

Hope that helps
DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 3

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:02:49 PM

Driver1961

Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

He dips His lid to tulinwl;

Short answer 'horses for courses!'

Nice profile and yes you will learn alot about yourself, and more about others in the process! In short what you are looking for is achievable and you apear to be looking for someone who is a Dominant in their realtime lifestyle.- Which is what many Dominants are.

My Wild was told she was too tall to be a submissive, and the list can go on, but let's face it; 'Jockeys like to choose their horses' and some jockeys wear permanent blinkers prefering little fillies. I would consider your stated attributes very favourably- I like the companionship of my partner, someone confident, admirable, established but submissive to ME because of my attributes. Go Girl!

Submission is innate in D/s relationships and only given to those considered 'Dom worthy'.

Hit the 'search' on top right and enter topics like 'what makes a good sub' etc. (there's whole libraries in there)

Warm regards Driver.

_____________________________

Dance as though nobody is watching!

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 4

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:10:33 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tulinwl

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not?

to answer this question - yes because Daddy and i are alike in personality - we are both independent and successful, have the same individualistic ideas, assertive/aggressive in our professions and play. other factors including same interests as vanillas also assisted in us clicking rather intstantly. however i've successfully submitted to Him because He uses the loving, nuturing type of dominance (something i missed while growing up) to shape and mold me into someone better and help reach my full potential as this new person.

quote:

Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

i can only speak from experience with Daddy and say He didn't find to be a challenge yet a rare diamond in the rough waiting for someone like Him to polish. Daddy found me very enticing and attractive for a man of His status and feels He has found the "perfect" daughter/submissive for Him. i feel the same way because He chose me from among the many He felt didn't meet His standards. 6months together, He has taken me to heights i've never knew existed in me and i cannot wait to reach more as i grow and learn with him.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 5

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:20:45 PM

azzmaster

Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

i think subs can be strong but the dom is stronger. otherwise they have it ass backwards.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 6

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:24:49 PM

Driver1961

Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

Ha, NOW that's funny Azz!!!!

_____________________________

Dance as though nobody is watching!

(in reply to azzmaster)

Post #: 7

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:36:12 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Strong people make strong relationships.

However, one must separate stubborn/defensive/passive aggressive/come catch me/not gonna go down without a fight insecure trappings from actual mature stable adult security.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 8

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:39:32 PM

myobedience

Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline

Welcome tulin, be at home amoung our ramblings, but truly live by the philosphy of which you choose.
The unexamined life is NOT worth living, no matter what lifestyle you wish to put with it.
You will find more than lively discussion, sometimes the oven flies open and someone comes flying out burnt to a nice crisp black.
A submissive IS strong, independent, individualistic, assertive, at times agreessive but tempered with gentleness.
Why? Because to submit to somone who is on the other side of your s coin, its still the same coin, you must be going toward growth in something you choose together.
I was strong, so I thought last time I submitted, but I became a submission to the world of his sexual kinks. I labored and died.
Good dominants, not domineering dominants, can spot a weak girl (or boy) and if they see the real soul in her/him might have the strength to open her up and find a pearl, a diamond, a glorious blessing (as I am now called).
He would like me stronger, but is NOT afraid to help me acheive it, that is what I look for. Someone willing to accept me and grow with me.
Domineering men prey upon the weakness in the other side of the coin, imho.
We are ALL different, both sides of the coin.
On thing I have learned, if you do not know yourself, how can you expect someone else to know the real you.
D/s, M/s which ever you aspire to, for your own personal reasons, has far less to do with kink, altho there needs to be some fit, than it does in commonalities in all other ares of life.
Examine everything
examine everything
examine everything
I will need to tell you tho ~ a dominant male who needs to control compassionately, confidently, with integrity and honor cannot turn off his own personality. It is 24/7 for him.
Thankfully, I believe one such as this has taken a great interest in me, and I am learning so much more than I ever did before. Thus my disclaimer.

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 9

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:46:41 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

define strong?

many people would consider our grandmothers and great-grandmothers, who often raised many children, ran a full household, and still lived in submission to men strong. but due to their circumstances, they certainly didn't have the kind of, well, brittle agressiveness that's sometimes considered "strength" today. i'm not saying that all women (or men) should be submissive to the opposite gender to be strong, but i find it odd that many people consider strong/submissive to be a paradox.

as a submissive, i do my best to be strong. my personality doesn't lend itself to aggressiveness, and i've only in the last year or two learned to be assertive about my needs (which He actually likes). i'm also, although fighting it tooth and nail at times, growing into independence that was forced on me. i won't ever fit, you know, the aggressive corporate ladder climbing kind of personality...i'm way too meek and mild for that. but that doesn't equate to strong for me. and i have seen a lot of wonderful submissives who can manage dominance in other areas of their life, and still be healthy submissives, without there being any sort of dichotomy there.

from what i've seen, from other posters and in my own relationships, a lot of dominants like submissives who have a personality, who are individuals with their own hopes-dreams-whatever. imho, this shouldn't be confused with brattiness, or aggressiveness, or a submissive who purposefully is overly aggressive in order to be "broken" into submission, or anything like that...i'm sure there are doms out there who'd consider that type of person to be a challenge as a submissive...He would rather have someone who wants submission from the get go. anyway, i suppose what i'm trying to say is that a) it kind of depends on how you define these things and b) it really does take all kinds.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 3/4/2007 9:47:54 PM >

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 10

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:54:59 PM

azzmaster

Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

i believe strong people can have a weakness. no fiercer warrior than achilles yet his heel was vulnerable. subs can be strong but there is always some weakness. not a bad or undesirable thing at all.but in accepting that weakness its like a yin yang kind of thing... a sub knows instinctively they need to be mastered and guided or they will run amok. what is sad sometimes is when a sub runs n2 a dom that is in fact weaker than them or tries to exploit them rather than guide and protect

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 11

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:58:01 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tulinwl

I am very new to this lifestyle and am currently digesting everything I can to learn more. This is in fact my very first post on this website. My questions are simple yet I hope they spark some lively discussion to help me understand.

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not? Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

Thanks

Those are the treasures of D/s.

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 12

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 9:59:32 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

i believe strong people can have a weakness. no fiercer warrior than achilles yet his heel was vulnerable. subs can be strong but there is always some weakness. not a bad or undesirable thing at all.but in accepting that weakness its like a yin yang kind of thing... a sub knows instinctively they need to be mastered and guided or they will run amok. what is sad sometimes is when a sub runs n2 a dom that is in fact weaker than them or tries to exploit them rather than guide and protect

erm...not all of us will run amok if we aren't immediately owned. we are human beings with, you know, brains and common sense and all (well, some of us).

i can't pinpoint what's bugging me about your posts in this thread...it just seems like you're oversimplifying things to me, i guess.

(in reply to azzmaster)

Post #: 13

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 10:02:42 PM

azzmaster

Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

no intent to bug u, but i see things in simple terms. i think humans often complicate things way more than necessary

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 14

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 10:03:19 PM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: tulinwl

I am very new to this lifestyle and am currently digesting everything I can to learn more. This is in fact my very first post on this website. My questions are simple yet I hope they spark some lively discussion to help me understand.

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not? Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

Thanks

Those are the treasures of D/s.

Indeed. Rare, but highly desired.

For me, there really are no challenges in 'type' once I'm close enough to get started. Getting to that point seems to be the challenge. But after that, I'm quite fine from there.

The reason for the rarity, in my experience, is that I have not come across many submissives who really had much in the way of strength and independence TO give up. Moreso they needed attention or protection from a world they really couldn't muster on their own.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 15

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 10:26:00 PM

Rayne58

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: tulinwl

I am very new to this lifestyle and am currently digesting everything I can to learn more. This is in fact my very first post on this website. My questions are simple yet I hope they spark some lively discussion to help me understand.

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not? Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

Thanks

Those are the treasures of D/s.

Indeed. Rare, but highly desired.

For me, there really are no challenges in 'type' once I'm close enough to get started. Getting to that point seems to be the challenge. But after that, I'm quite fine from there.

The reason for the rarity, in my experience, is that I have not come across many submissives who really had much in the way of strength and independence TO give up. Moreso they needed attention or protection from a world they really couldn't muster on their own.

Jeff

There have been times in the past 3 years in my relationship with Master when I have surprised myself with how strong I am and have had to be. He has been in hospital several times, and I have had to take care of Him at home too, dealing with medications, upset blood sugar levels (He is diabetic) and sleep deprivation.

It all started after I left my first husband nearly 5 years ago. He constantly put me down and so my self esteem was in my boots. After I left him I learned to live on my own for the first time, drive further than my little local area, work a full time job, and generally be independent. This has all been hard won and I'm not prepared to give any of it up - luckily Master doesn't want me to either.

I take a lot of the financial burdens off Him by making sure our bills are paid on time, I do most of the shopping and dealing with beauracracy (sp?).

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 16

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 10:31:13 PM

obis

Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

I don't see intelligence and strength as a challenge in a submissive, I see them as a prerequisite.

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 17

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 10:33:53 PM

azzmaster

Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

the only real prerequisite 3 a sub is OBEDIENCE... the rest is personal taste

(in reply to obis)

Post #: 18

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 10:35:06 PM

azzmaster

Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

sorry, typo... i meant 4... is in " 4 a sub"

(in reply to azzmaster)

Post #: 19

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/4/2007 10:43:20 PM

freyjasdottir

Posts: 253
Joined: 8/29/2006
From: PA
Status: offline

I can be very aggressive, very strong willed, stubborn, the whole nine yards. In fact some of my RT friends and co-workers can't see me as a submissive since I try to keep such a tight rein on the majority of my life. But, that is the point, I have control over everything, or at least try to, I need the chance to let someone take over in the relationship areana.

(in reply to azzmaster)

Post #: 20

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