RE: Just a comment

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MistressNoName -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 1:46:04 PM)
I'm always amazed at how often this subject comes up. Many people believe that a slave should have only those rights granted to him/her by their owner -or more to the point none at all. If we are talking involuntary slavery, then that would be the case. But in my opinion, when we are talking voluntary slavery, which is the only form of M/s I am interested in, I recognize the rights of the person who makes up the slave. Plain and simple. So, yes, slaves have rights. MNN

FukinTroll -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 2:02:01 PM)
Out of curiosity is it No Name or Nonahmee

sublizzie -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 2:05:04 PM)
~ fast reply ~ I've always said I am not a masochist, but I must be because I keep reading this thread. Ye gads!!

AquaticSub -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 2:33:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll It s also known as musical collars. Damn it. Now I have to buy a bunch of cheap collars, get some kids music and play a game of this at my next party.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 2:46:43 PM)
Oh drat! now everybody tells me slavery is not legel anymore, the world must being going to Hell in a Handbasket. So much for my import/export business plans. Better cancel that order from China...

mstrjx -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 3:02:10 PM)
So, here's my 'just a comment' to the OP who posts inanity and runs. Does this mean in 9 years (MY 25th anniversary in the Lifestyle) that I will have become so jaded that my bright ideas will be so wrong-headed? On a separate 'just a comment' side note: I don't know about the rest, but there is one 'here' (not the OP) whose all-knowing schtick is starting to wear ultra-thin. Jeff

azzmaster -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 3:24:09 PM)
well OP, as u see its the era of yuppie watered down BDSM...and a hell of alot of smart assed unsubish subs who know everything....LMAO... and u wonder y he didn't keep posting? he wasn't trying to defend his postition. he knows what his position is. and he said it was just a comment.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 3:51:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: azzmaster well OP, as u see its the era of yuppie watered down BDSM...and a hell of alot of smart assed unsubish subs who know everything....LMAO... and u wonder y he didn't keep posting? he wasn't trying to defend his postition. he knows what his position is. and he said it was just a comment. Personally I like watered down things... For instance I'm a big star trek fan! But I'm not hardcore into dressing up like a klingon and learning to speak klingon and living that as my 24/7 lifestyle either... Yes Watered Down or more ground in reality... however you look at it! It's all good! Long as I can live life without turning it into a hardcore Freak show..

azzmaster -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 5:04:37 PM)
sadly... BDSM if watered down just becomes vanilla with sprinkles

thetammyjo -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 5:16:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ancientseawolfe Don't Masters have limits?? Wouldn't it be correct for a potential slave to find out if the potential Master's limits were in consonance? The slave eventually wants to rely on the Master's limits, right? Ideally this would be great. I think more realistically you find somone who has all your really important or hard limits or you learn and change over time. As usual, I'm basing this on my experiences. When I started to train Fox one of his hard limits was knife play. One of my favorite activities is knife play. It didn't matter because when I train it's a trial and a teaching experience, I don't train with the ultimate plan to own, I train to others learn and I train to give us a chance to see if something might be there for us together. I didn't need to do knife play with him to help him explore and help us get to know each other. There came a time during training when he went to get some toys (a good exercise for the mind) and came back with only one: one of my knives. He knelt down and said "I am very afraid, Milady, but I trust you this much and I want to try." Having learned the hard way to not take what a submissive says in scene very seriously if it does not mesh with his out of scene limits list, I ended the training session and we talked. We did not continue the session that evening. The next time we had a session he went to get the knife and remade his statement. He'd had a week to think and it was now at the beginning of the scene. So I used my knife on him and I was very conscious of what we did every second at even a greater level than I am normally. He shook, he cried, we finished. Then he remembered why he had this hard limit and he told me with shaky voice about being raped when he was 15. I would not have owned Fox had he had this limit but I never told him that, he either just knew it or he wanted to continue to challenge that memory by engaging in it. I do not think he would do knife play with anyone else. I consider a great sign of trust that we do it and it is one of the reasons I decided to own him.

AquaticSub -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 5:17:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: azzmaster sadly... BDSM if watered down just becomes vanilla with sprinkles So what are you? Sherbert?

AquaticSub -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 5:18:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Ideally this would be great. I think more realistically you find somone who has all your really important or hard limits or you learn and change over time. As usual, I'm basing this on my experiences. When I started to train Fox one of his hard limits was knife play. One of my favorite activities is knife play. It didn't matter because when I train it's a trial and a teaching experience, I don't train with the ultimate plan to own, I train to others learn and I train to give us a chance to see if something might be there for us together. I didn't need to do knife play with him to help him explore and help us get to know each other. There came a time during training when he went to get some toys (a good exercise for the mind) and came back with only one: one of my knives. He knelt down and said "I am very afraid, Milady, but I trust you this much and I want to try." Having learned the hard way to not take what a submissive says in scene very seriously if it does not mesh with his out of scene limits list, I ended the training session and we talked. We did not continue the session that evening. The next time we had a session he went to get the knife and remade his statement. He'd had a week to think and it was now at the beginning of the scene. So I used my knife on him and I was very conscious of what we did every second at even a greater level than I am normally. He shook, he cried, we finished. Then he remembered why he had this hard limit and he told me with shaky voice about being raped when he was 15. I would not have owned Fox had he had this limit but I never told him that, he either just knew it or he wanted to continue to challenge that memory by engaging in it. I do not think he would do knife play with anyone else. I consider a great sign of trust that we do it and it is one of the reasons I decided to own him. That is quite a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing.

MistressNoName -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 5:27:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aine It's not a discussion when people are insulting others for their opinions or ways. Which I see is running a little rampant from a lot of people in this thread. I'd say it's more of a pissing match at the moment, rather than a level-headed discussion. edited because the caffeine has not yet reached my fingers I agree, Aine...and that was probably the intent in the first place.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 5:48:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressNoName quote: ORIGINAL: Aine It's not a discussion when people are insulting others for their opinions or ways. Which I see is running a little rampant from a lot of people in this thread. I'd say it's more of a pissing match at the moment, rather than a level-headed discussion. edited because the caffeine has not yet reached my fingers I agree, Aine...and that was probably the intent in the first place. Well it's obvious that there are differences, and everybody has a mindset on what is or is not. Some people are into the Gorean lifestyle, while some others are Old Guard. The list goes on and on. I think if one were to measure the extremes using a scale, then you can say one is more hardcore over the other. But come on, we are all talking about BDSM here. It's insane to simply throw out the word Vanilla, just because your mindset is higher on the scale. It's nice to know that some people would look down at anothers mindset as lesser then anothers. Which in itself is rather extreme...bordering on being narcissistic about how much they are into this lifestyle. This conversation does not even go into activities even. There are different levels or extremes in activities even. So If one was to do a certain activity and enjoy it in a light weight manner, does that make it Vanilla. What happened to all the other ice cream flavors... such as Strawberry, Banana... then let's get into some Ben & Jerry styles here as well. You'd think that one who is so absorbed in the extreme of BDSM has became so narcissistic, that they deny that they are even human... yes, part of the same race that BDSMer and Vanilla share alike. This is almost as bad as politics.. where the extreme fractions war with each other, over who gets to control everybody. Yes, the extreme right and left want to tell you how to live your life, what is right and what is wrong. Based on their scales of extreme temps in the environment of humanity itself. People toss the word Vanilla around like it's a swear word or something! I have many friends which fit that category easy and well. Ones which I love and adore. But that word is thrown around like cheap loose change, I think this is a reflection of how some people really value other people. Or at least how thoughtless they have become for the words they use and the true meanings of those words. But this is a free country... more power to the freedom of speech.. Even the narcissistic people have this right. Personally I would be a facists and would love to break all the mirrors or drop them in swimming pools. The mirrors the narcissistic people stare into all damn day long...

CreativeDominant -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 6:09:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressNoName I'm always amazed at how often this subject comes up. Many people believe that a slave should have only those rights granted to him/her by their owner -or more to the point none at all. If we are talking involuntary slavery, then that would be the case. But in my opinion, when we are talking voluntary slavery, which is the only form of M/s I am interested in, I recognize the rights of the person who makes up the slave. Plain and simple. So, yes, slaves have rights. MNN It is amazing. When I started out on this journey, I read Devon and Miller and Wiseman and Graeme and Warren and Rice, et. al and asked questions and participated in munches and talked and talked and talked to bunches of folks. I've done emailings back and forth with folks ranging from various Gorean Masters and kajira to bedroom only BDSM participants. I've listened to others and wrapped my own thoughts and experiences around that of others and here is what I have come down to... I have a basic definition of submissive and dominant and slave in my head. I have a basic definition of Total Power Exchange and Partial Power Exchange. These definitions which are based on what I have read and what I have learned and which are colored more by people like Warren and Devon and Miller and Wiseman than they are by Norman and Rice ... are still only my definitions and are only important when I am speaking with someone and they ask me to clarify my viewpoint. I can put them out here and I can ask for input and yeah, every once in awhile, I will disagree with someone. As an example, I happen to think that to state that you are a TPE slave on your profile is a bit misleading. As someone else noted, no one starts out that way. You might start out submitting at a basic level and as trust builds, more and more power is exchanged. How long that takes is entirely up to you and the one you are partnered up with. To state that you wish to find a partner that you can let go of your limits with more and more as a Partial Power Exchange becomes Total and as submissive moves toward slavery could be a more honest way of putting it. If I want to be a dominant that has a 24/7 D/s relationship with a submissive that does not need/want micromanagement and I am O.K. with the fact that she does not wish to relinquish control of her children to me, but has no problem with turning over her finances and/or her schedule and/or her sexuality, and on and on, then I would describe our relationship as a D/s relationship, 24/7, with Partial Power Exchange. I suppose Total Power Exchange...at least as defined by the big poobahs in BDSM/D/s (and no, I do not mean that in an insulting fashion)...is possible but I would think it is rare.

Tristan -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 6:09:50 PM)
D/s and bdsm is a relationship. It's not about real slavery where one person has no say. It's about finding common desires and kinks for everyone involved. Power exchange can be fun and exciting, but it's fun and exciting for reasons other than one person telling another what to do. It's fun and exciting only when everyone involved has found something that really excites him or her. That's where limits and kinks become a part of the relationship. A submissive (like a dominant) has kinks. A submissive's kink might be serving without limits or it might be something more specific life serving as a harem girl or being cross dressed. All of these are the kinks of the lifestyle. Hard limits are simply those things that are a total turn off. We all have them.

angelic -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 6:21:18 PM)
Could you please point me in the direction of the 'rule' that states a slave serves one and all? i think i was sick that day of slave school. [:(]

VeryMercurial -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 6:25:51 PM)
It is the same with the males, welcome to BDSM in 2007, often the submissive wants a lot of control. Many of the male submissives have a long list of wishes. Slaves aint what they used to be!

MistressNoName -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 6:27:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: MistressNoName I'm always amazed at how often this subject comes up. Many people believe that a slave should have only those rights granted to him/her by their owner -or more to the point none at all. If we are talking involuntary slavery, then that would be the case. But in my opinion, when we are talking voluntary slavery, which is the only form of M/s I am interested in, I recognize the rights of the person who makes up the slave. Plain and simple. So, yes, slaves have rights. MNN It is amazing. When I started out on this journey, I read Devon and Miller and Wiseman and Graeme and Warren and Rice, et. al and asked questions and participated in munches and talked and talked and talked to bunches of folks. I've done emailings back and forth with folks ranging from various Gorean Masters and kajira to bedroom only BDSM participants. I've listened to others and wrapped my own thoughts and experiences around that of others and here is what I have come down to... I have a basic definition of submissive and dominant and slave in my head. I have a basic definition of Total Power Exchange and Partial Power Exchange. These definitions which are based on what I have read and what I have learned and which are colored more by people like Warren and Devon and Miller and Wiseman than they are by Norman and Rice ... are still only my definitions and are only important when I am speaking with someone and they ask me to clarify my viewpoint. I can put them out here and I can ask for input and yeah, every once in awhile, I will disagree with someone. As an example, I happen to think that to state that you are a TPE slave on your profile is a bit misleading. As someone else noted, no one starts out that way. You might start out submitting at a basic level and as trust builds, more and more power is exchanged. How long that takes is entirely up to you and the one you are partnered up with. To state that you wish to find a partner that you can let go of your limits with more and more as a Partial Power Exchange becomes Total and as submissive moves toward slavery could be a more honest way of putting it. If I want to be a dominant that has a 24/7 D/s relationship with a submissive that does not need/want micromanagement and I am O.K. with the fact that she does not wish to relinquish control of her children to me, but has no problem with turning over her finances and/or her schedule and/or her sexuality, and on and on, then I would describe our relationship as a D/s relationship, 24/7, with Partial Power Exchange. I suppose Total Power Exchange...at least as defined by the big poobahs in BDSM/D/s (and no, I do not mean that in an insulting fashion)...is possible but I would think it is rare. Your points are very well taken. I would suggest that one of the issues that abound, even in this age of the internet, where we see an abundance of information open and available in ways that we could never have imagined even 20 years ago, still there is a lack of information...or perhaps an absence of information, within the lifestyle community. For instance, you are using the term Partial Power Exchange. Well this is the first time I have seen that term in print or heard of anyone using that term. And I agree that to use that term would probably be more accurate and cut down on a lot of misunderstanding. Still, it would not satisfy those who believe that a slave has no rights. They seem to not give place to the power exchange progressing in stages. Ah, right, the other point...Master Jack McGeorge, an experienced, and I think well-respected lifestyle Master talks a lot about "sustainabilty" in M/s relationships. And while Mstr Jack would be one of the firsts to say something like, "sure a slave has rights...a slave has a right to leave." He still maintains an understanding that a slave may have certain limitations that in order to sustain the M/s dynamic, may need to be understood and respected. That's all I mean by a slave having rights...rights to their limits...perhaps those limits can be pushed, pulled, prodded...I don't know, it would greatly depend upon the nature of the relationship and the ppl involved. But I think to start off from a point where the rights of slaves are dismissed outright is a mistake. MNN

ownedgirlie -> RE: Just a comment (3/5/2007 6:43:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo I think you're enslaved when your head is so occupied by someone else that you don't even have the inclination to focus on what you wouldn't do for them, *but rather the need to beg for the opportunity to do something you hate* just for the priviledge to serve that person.** It's in that state of mind that the "sub vs slave vs bottom vs whathaveyou" debate becomes completely inapplicable. Wow girl you just read my heart. This hit me hard, and defines me.

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