SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (Full Version)

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NYDOMINATRIX -> SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/5/2007 11:16:03 AM)

PLEASE  GO HERE TO GET FURTHER INFO AND TO HELP MISTRESS SANDRA IN HER LEGAL DEFENSE.  ALL ALLEGATIONS WERE FALSE.   

http://newyorkdominatrix.com/whatsnew/legalfundmsandra.html





LaTigresse -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/5/2007 11:39:32 AM)

I am thinking that if she could afford to have a house like that.............she can afford her legal defense better than I can.........




NYDOMINATRIX -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/5/2007 2:24:10 PM)

She rented that home and struggled with the payments - you need to stop listening to the press.  Another tidbit is that the house would never sell for more then 1 million dollars.  Ive ascertained that realistic value via real estate comps




LaTigresse -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/5/2007 2:25:57 PM)

Well hell, why did she rent it if she couldn't afford the payments then? Doesn't make sense to me.




justheather -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/5/2007 2:27:17 PM)

I thought the OP was the "she" in question.
I agree, one should live within her means.
How much does a pack of cigarettes cost in New York these days?




KatyLied -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/5/2007 6:16:58 PM)

Yummy spam!




mnottertail -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/5/2007 6:23:06 PM)

Hey, I don't know what you got for ads on that site, but I am sure her hit rate has increased so she is more salable----

I pay just to fuckin' much for car insurance, and I am glad I had three immediate offers to take that off me,  which may in time save me enough I could loan her a sawbuck...........

Ron




LotusSong -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/5/2007 9:10:51 PM)

Nope.  That's the risk she took.  It's a vanilla world.  She just lives in it , as do we all.
 
Do you think that if money was NOT involved, she'd have suffered the same fate?




Kalyndrah -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/6/2007 2:47:08 PM)

Interesting.
I'm having trouble finding the original article on this so I can get the original story - not the edited version on the site.
Ah, here we go.  http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/501482p-422897c.html
Oh, and the best place... the actual associated press post of the article: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NY_DOMINATRIX_BUSTED_BAOL-?SITE=WPIX&SECTION=NORTHEAST&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT\\

And no, I'm not "editing" for privacy.  It is in the news and publicly searchable.  Price you pay for being a public figure, good or bad.

Now, if you'll read the second article, you'll see there's nothing illegal about being a Dominatrix or offering the services of a Dominatrix.  Prostitution, however, is a different matter.  And the arrest was because Mistress Sandra offered sex to an undercover officer, not because she was a Dominatrix.  They're different, and the police actually acknowledge this difference.

So nope, even if I was in a position to offer help, I wouldn't.  If you're a Dominatrix, you're a Dominatrix.  If anything escalates into sexual intercourse (Bill Clinton version or not), then the money is returned, or it is made clear that money will not be exchanged at all.  Otherwise, it's prostitution.  Plain & simple.  Gonna charge for services, be up on the law and be VERY careful how you conduct business.

Oh, and did I mention that if it's on the AP, and an actual court case (go ahead!  Search it!  LOL) I'ma go with the Popo's and the DA and the judge and ... and...  over ANYONE asking for money.  =)

Ok, that last part was a bit flame-y.  I admit it.  but the rest of my post holds.  Laws, people!  Lotus, the hottie she is, also has a brain - it IS a vanilla world and we, being the minority, have to adjust.  We do not get to go outside the law or pretend it doesn't apply to us just because we're TONS more fun or because We're Dominant and believe the world does, in fact, revolve around us.  (Only on Tuesdays)  Price you pay for making money from something on such a fine line.




CandleInTheWind -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/6/2007 6:09:53 PM)

Im with you all.....
there is a big difference between professional domination (sensual not sexual activities) 
and recreational domination (including sexual activities)...
and unfortunately one may very well not intend to cross the line to recreational ....once one does...and one had accepted money for that service given or recieved one is a prostitute like it or not.....

just my humble opinion
red




BeachMystress -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/7/2007 2:04:38 AM)

My question is, exactly what was the sex offered? I can not imagine any upper class Dominatrix making this mistake! They make more money staying within the law then any regular prostitute. I can not imagine it was vanilla intercourse. Was it strap on anal? Oral worship? No, I don't approve of taking money for those activities either, but can see how a Domina might not realize that those were also prostitution.




MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/7/2007 3:19:33 AM)

Yes, but shouldn't that same upper-level Dominatrix be well aware of what she can and can't do within the boundaries of the law?

It's like running any other business - you make sure you are operating legally, reporting income appropriately, have the correct permits for both engaging in the business and where you're set up, etc.  If you don't, you stand the chance of getting busted and having to deal with the legal consequences.

There's a reason you can't just set up a restaurant in your living room and make a tidy profit on food and alcohol sales.  I wouldn't see shutting such a place down an attack on the food industry.




BeachMystress -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/7/2007 4:20:09 AM)

There is that. The upper end Pros I know actually have run their business model past an attorney to make sure they were within the letter of the law. I'd still love to know what sex act was offered.




TheHungryTiger -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/7/2007 6:13:54 AM)

Ya know? There are several pro doms working in the westchester area. A quick google turns up at least a half dozen. One of whom I know personally. How come none of them are being targeted? What did this one woman do that made her stand out differently than all the other pro doms?

Or am I just not suppose to ask nagging questions? Should I just jump on the "oh woe is me, our lifestyle is so oppressed" bandwagon?




LadyEllen -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/7/2007 7:10:46 AM)

The legal definitions of prostitution would be something interesting to look into, compared with the alleged offence in this instance. Stretching such definitions could well cause a lot of activities, even incidental and accidental, that are provided by pro-doms, to become prostitution - whilst at the same time those activities might certainly fall outside the definition, so providing a reasonable defence in an unbiased system. But then, it is to be assumed that in many ways the system will not be unbiased.

We would probably all say, that the provision of sexual services for money payment is prostitution. But, what are sexual services exactly? Certainly penetration must be considered, perhaps also oral sex and hand relief, and maybe therefore, other instances where bodily contact of some nature is made, which results in sexual climax. Is it prostitution at all though, if despite these circumstances, the client does not climax? Is it prostitution if the client climaxes from physical contact - from massage for instance, even where this has neither been agreed or paid for, and so is incidental or accidental to the provision of service? Is it prostitution if the client reaches sexual climax believing this is what he is paying for, even if the deliverer of the service refutes this? Do the same provisions and limitations apply equally to a homosexual or lesbian encounter in the same circumstances, or to instances where a male provides service to a female?

To my mind, there has to be a definite contract agreed, proposed by one side or the other which requires the deliberate delivery by one side of sufficient and direct physical contact with the other side to result specifically in sexual climax, in return for a prescribed payment in negotiable funds, for it to count as prostitution. Outside of such a definition, then every pro-dom whose client happens to climax during the proceedings, could count as a prostitute, not to mention the likes of qualified massage therapists, and that would clearly be a dangerous precedent for all.

If I were Mistress Sandra, or her friend NYdominatrix here, these are the kind of questions I would be looking into, and the kind of questions which could be resolved by way of the library, which should be able to give access to relevant legal statutes. By answering those questions for herself, she could then either admit the offence if what is alleged to have transpired falls within the definition, and plead mitigating circumstances such an entrapment etc, or be in a strong position to make an adequate defence. In the absence of any recording devices used to gather evidence, it should also be remembered that it is one person's word against another, and should it be possible, then perhaps sworn affidavits from other clients, to be given to the judge alone for the sake of anonymity, could be obtained to support a case that Mistress Sandra does not offer services that could be construed as prostitution, to her clients - and therefore would not have done so in this instance either.

But to be honest, though I wish for the best possible outcome in this case, to come to what is a public forum to request as I understand it, funds in money to be sent to aid someone acting in a professional capacity, is certainly not an approach that will get very far I feel. As a public forum, the membership are already on their guard in respect of requests for money and are cynical in the extreme about such. This is not to say that the story is in doubt, or the version of events given is in question; it is merely to say that support can be requested in many more forms, often better forms in terms of the response obtainable.

E





CandleInTheWind -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/11/2007 6:17:06 AM)

it is this humble little ones understanding that any touching of genitals for money is a prostitutional offense even if said body part is covered.....Ie  when those stroakers at paddles want to "worship your feet"  then rub your feet against their goodies....if you accept money  bingo prostitution.....

as i recall I did a bit of reading on foot worship and there is a magic line somewhere in the leg i believe it is either 2-3 inches up from the knee  that is concidered untouchable by a client...or bingo foot worship becomes a sexual offense akin to prostitution.

Like it or not strap on play, anal play, CBT, basically insert any object into an anus a vaginal and charging for it are all offenses!!!

oral contact between genitals another no no ...like I said a difference between private play and pro play.....basically you know the pro houses that the self contained Prodommes make comments about that they arent real DOMME"S   well they may very well walk around half naked  but well they do not ordinarily do things that will ge them nabbed for prostitutional offenses.

again this little ones snippets are the recollections of this ones former research...I cannot quote chapter and verse after all it is a sunday morning and they did change the darn clock last night...but well common sense would dictate  touching goodies is construed as sexual  even if you are driving nails through them, in the eyes of the law!  so if money is exchanged for touching anyone's goodies in either directions   (yeah when you were 10 and the 12 year old boy asked you if he could touch your boobs for a dollar he was committing a prosecutable offence)


well have a great day felllow perves...and as i said a thougsand times...I would rather give it away than to sell it....giving it away gives me the choices and doesnt get me in trouble with the law!

red




kc692 -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/11/2007 9:25:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NYDOMINATRIX

She rented that home and struggled with the payments - you need to stop listening to the press.  Another tidbit is that the house would never sell for more then 1 million dollars.  Ive ascertained that realistic value via real estate comps


Not to sound like sour grapes, I can't afford to live in a million dollar home, bought or rented. Just out of curiosity, have you helped her?




submissivebutt -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 2:45:57 AM)

this one would be honored if he could handle Ma'am's briefs for Her...even wear them ! [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m21.gif[/image]




BeachMystress -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 5:01:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CandleInTheWind
Like it or not strap on play, anal play, CBT, basically insert any object into an anus a vaginal and charging for it are all offenses!!!

Yup, I suspect that it was one of these things that got her arrested. As the OP hasn't bothered to keep up with this post, I guess we'll have to wait for trial to find out.
 
I will mention that one article I read says that the activity was not contracted, but available to take place as some unspecified later time. Anyone know the legality on that? Is just saying I'll do X for you for $500 enough when the transaction isn't set up? Or does it have to be a transaction in the works?




Sternhand4 -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 7:15:16 AM)

The minute you agree to exchange for y, whether its around the corner behind the park or sometime in the future. Your going to get to try the officers cuffs on, and not in a fun way.




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