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BobtheSubBuilder -> submissive? (3/6/2007 10:56:21 AM)

Recently met a girl online who emailed me through a very old vanilla profile on 'an abundence of piscine species dot com'.

She open declares her need to have her man control her behaviour in so much as if she does something i dont like im to tell her 'enough katie' and when married wants her man to take her pay check and dole out only whats left after paying bills. She says that she wants these things coz it is the way her parents live and that her father would talk to her in that manner and she likes it (in a perfectly innocent way apparently). In addition she says she wants a guy who will ultimately make all the decisions for us both.

We have a date in the 10th - i have never met her but within 48 hours of contacting me she had

a) bought a new sim card, paid and subscribed for unlimited free calls between us

b) switched from night shift to days (which she hates) simply because i thought that her working opposite hours to me would make our getting to know each other easier.
c) dyed her hair the colour i like

d) kept asking me what i wanted her to wear on our date untill i told her

e) started on the pill because i suggested she think about it (when she told me she said i had told her)

now this last one i found odd coz she told me she wanted to go slow and not dive into a sexual relationship - because she is a virgin.

ok now i dont know if i just swept her off her feet or if its all lies or what but the phone is real and i imagine the hair will be real - i will see on our (vanilla) date, the shift change is also real.

is this just me or is this girl a sub in the making? - if so how does one go about transforming a naturally sub girl into a full sub by small degrees she may not even notice?
now i ask that not in some kind of sick way, it seems to me this girl craves domination in her every day life and even a degree of humiliation at being told to 'be quiet' in a public setting. I think the difficulty is that because she is a virgin in the 'vaginal penetration by a penis' kind of way (though shes done oral, and deeply enjoyed pleasing her man) she finds it hard to make the leap that sex should be anything other than that kind of sweet gentle loving sex, and that 'dirty' or 'kinky' sex cant equally be about love as much as pleasure.

its even more bizarre than this - apparently her last bf was rather dom - controlled her whole life to a degree she enjoyed at the time but he was a sick puppy who played arround and played mind games and when he finally left she had a breakdown which im assured shes recovered from. however - she has been left somewhat resistant to the same level of control he had.

Also it seems that although she remains technically virginal she and her ex would indulge in role play, bondage, whipping, and watersports. and rather likes the direct approach ('katie suck my cock' while sat on the sofa watching tv).

So unless im mistaken what we have here is a naturally submissive girl (24) who craves control in her daily life (used the word 'need' herself) who is open to kinks/fetishes if it pleases her man (and in pleasing she is pleased herself), but who was badly hurt and abused by a former dom and so is shying away from the same level of control he had over her

is this just a case of 'softly softly' let her trust in me grow and then gradually suggest things and make subtle changes to our rel?

also just so everyone knows i did point out to her that she came across as sub (had to explain that one, her innocence is delicious!) she said that she wasnt at all and all this behaviour just was 'natural and right' in her eyes - shes not happy with the label and would prolly never call me 'sir' or 'master' but to me all the pieces are there, she just needs someone to 'assemble' her.

ok P/peeps - thoughts and comments? advice on how to proced would be nice.




mnottertail -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 11:00:53 AM)

Probably a chunk of sub frenzy going on there.

Additionally, women always lie, and females never tell the truth, but they like to percieve themselves as being that way.

Stay calm and don't jump at the first blowjob.   Know yourself, and be sure.

Ron 




valeca -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 11:09:17 AM)

How about...going on that first date and seeing if there's actually any face-to-face chemistry before worrying too much about the future of the relationship.  After that, go on a second, and a third...and a tenth.  Then start wondering about the future of the relationship.

There might be sub frenzy happening, as Ron said, but I'm also seeing a bit of 'Dom frenzy' in your post, too.

Edit:  I thought your nic looked familiar.  Didn't you just have a sub return to you a couple of weeks ago?




KatyLied -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 11:12:35 AM)

red flags flying




mixielicous -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 11:24:36 AM)

i agree, there are red flags all over, mostly her fast response in lifestyle changes, but she does appear naturally submissive. a good site i read in the beginning was takeninhand.com the focus is strong man in control but with little BDSM involved, it might be a good place to ease her in.

Ask her though, why so quickly and thoroughly she has changed her life when she does not even know if you will work for her???

thin line between submissive and codependant




MasterFireMaam -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 11:47:09 AM)

It sounds like to me she's a person projecting onto the relationship what she wants it to be rather than seeing if it has the potential to be what she wants naturally. We ALL do this, though. If you are the level-headed one, you'll have to be aware of what's happening and be prepared for the time when she feel betrayed because the relationship is not everything she dreamed it would be. This WILL happen. The crappy thing is, you'll not be able to convince her that the relationship is different that what she imagines. If you want a relationship with her, you must stand in the face of that projection, neither denying nor acknowledging that she's doing it, but still accept that she will fall and the disillusionment will come. How committed she really is to the relationship rather than the fantasy will show itself at that moment.

I hope that makes sense. I'm a little rattled in the head today.

Master Fire




Wildfleurs -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 12:03:58 PM)

My two cents?

Runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn bitch run!

We've got a stage ten clinger.




BobtheSubBuilder -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 12:21:09 PM)

thanks peeps - not entirely sure what is meant by sub/dom 'frenzy' - im certainly not frothing at the mouth! lol frankly i think her behaviour is a lil - well ok a lot over the top waay to fast. she says she simply never felt so right about a guy <shrugs>.

i cetainly wasnt thinking of diving into anything with her till i was more sure of  the long term prospects of our rel (if any) - its just i cant help but see potential there and i wondered how i should go about exploring it - for future reference (im a planner i cant help it lol)

yes is it submission or codependance - not sure ill have to spend ACTUAL time with her and find out.

yes indeed i did have a sub return to me a while back - but i realised it wasnt actually right or healthy for me to be involved with her for lots of reasons - her rel - her kids - what would have been my split emotions when i met a new girl - having a 'sexual' partner messing with my head and dividing my loyalties - i told her i couldnt do it anymore - she finally got the idea and quit mailing and messaging me - i had to point out she was stalking me though.

she created a new profile on here think its 'hugetitswetholes' but gave up finding an online master after about 4 days - noone pushed her buttons like i did apparently - anyway shes indulging her switch side and got a dom account 'mordsithlover' - i dont know why im telling anyone this really - if you read the old posts you will see the arrangement between us was one where she fully expected to be replaced sometime soon so i dont know what her problem was




onestandingstill -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 12:26:15 PM)

I'd be disturbed and wondering what's wrong with someone if they changed their life that drastically within 48 hours of meeting me here, and never meeting me real time.
She sounds either like instead of her you're going to meet Bubba when you go to meet her, she's going to be like fatal attraction if you don't comit to her, or you'll meet an empty chair.
People who count themselves and have healthy lives and self esteem are not ready to change heir and careers to make it more convenient to date you before you've even known each other a week IMO.

She does sound slave like more than sub like, but again I'd only meet her in a well lit public place a few times before I'd park in a dark alley or anything.
Good luck, if she's all you think it will be good for you.




BobtheSubBuilder -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 12:30:39 PM)

MFM - good post - thanks was helpful - dont know if i WANT a rel with her yet - we will see.




KatyLied -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 12:39:59 PM)

quote:

CAN WE BUILD HER?
YES WE CAAAAN!


I think with the girl in question you'll spend more time deconstructing her personality disorder than building her.  No one with healthy boundaries would make those type of changes just for an opporunity for a possible relationship.  I agree, hide the bunny.




BobtheSubBuilder -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 1:10:18 PM)

well she doesnt sound like a 'Bubba' on the phone lol and if she dont turn up then so what? i wont let it bother me. She is apparently getting some kind of intermittent help following her breakdown over her ex - so yes i agree there is something there that needs fixing before the 'building' can begin - still not sure what or even IF i want to - as i said its something for the future. HOWEVER her sub nature was present with her bf it was only when the rel broke down did it become a problem for her - i think MFM is right she knows what she wants and is projecting that onto our budding relationship, weither or not we actually have a rel to project onto is another and more pressing matter. Im not even entirely sure how we will connect on a vanilla level yet - conversation has been annoying at best when her mobile phone keeps losing signal and i cant hear her or her me - witicism thrown into a convo is no longer funny when you have to repeat it 5 times lol. though sometimes i think she simply doesnt get the jokes i make - sail over her head

oh and i made an error - my former girl is now indulging her DOMME side not her switch side lol - but no surprise there she was always domme to blokes before she met me anyway

oh she is a student atm - works in a hospital for the experience for her course, makes her switching shifts a tiny touch less drastic




AquaticSub -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 1:40:27 PM)

Well, this could be a good thing, but personally I think it's kinda creepy. Proceed carefully.




PlayfulOne -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 2:04:36 PM)

As was said earlier, "Hide The Bunny", what she has is the potential to be a lunatic. 

Then again from the other side I would worry about you.  I would think long and hard about being involved with anyone who would just so casually start tossing their ex's info around on a message board like this. 

Hey maybe you two are perfect for one another.

K




littleone35 -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 2:13:03 PM)

I wouls say run the other way this girl obviously has issues and seem desperate for people to want her so she is doing everything so you will like her.

She seems also like a clinger like someonee lse said,  she is moving very fast.  Master did not get me a cell phone to call him until we had been together 3 months.  Getting one right away is very strange to me.

Matt's littleone




ShiftedJewel -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 2:51:24 PM)

We met a girl similar to that once. After the first conversation on instant messenger she was ready to talk on the phone, after that conversation she was telling everyone she was collared to us. And when she got here we heard all about her terribly abusive past, swore she had never had kids (I don't know about all you guys out there, but a mother can tell if another woman has had a baby... and she had. The scary part was even her own mother didn't know what happened to the baby) and all that happy crap. It took about a month, but I finally found out that she lied about everything and had every intention of robbing us blind. Me being a stay at home wife put a real kink in her plans.
 
Be cautious, extremely cautious of someone that jumps that fast.
 
Jewel




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 5:38:45 PM)

I'd call it overeager and lacking understandings of courtship rituals.  This would make me back WAY down.




BrokenDoll -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 9:20:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

red flags flying


you took the words right out of my mouth.

After one of two convos and a girl makes all those changes and these arent little changes here these are life altering huge things there is something there fundamentaly wrong big red flag.. in my opinion anyway.





MasterNdorei -> RE: submissive? (3/6/2007 9:53:48 PM)

Are there any nonsexual, non D/s things that the two of you have in common? You may want to attempt a conversation with her about this, and see if she can keep up.

Jewel's story offers a motive more realistic than anything she has offered so far.

Put your seatbelt on...
Master's dorei




BobtheSubBuilder -> RE: submissive? (3/7/2007 12:56:13 AM)

Well to be fair i only scratched the surface concerning her ex and i thought what i did mention might be pertinant. She really doesnt see herself as sub - for example in a convo last night she said that once she was in a sexual relationship she would never 'have a headache' - when i asked her why her response was 'coz that what you do if you love someone' nothing to do with 'should never refuse' or anything else remotely 'slave mentality' (at least not to me). As far as i can work out all her behaviour so far has been motivated by her wanting this to work between us, apparently to her im the best thing since sliced bread feels like shes known me forever and such like. there is another explination for all this - her first was also her ONLY bf. with this in mind her behaviour does make ALOT more sense - delayed love sick teen syndrome, all rose tinted and lovely. this does mean shes gonna have to learn what real rels are like pretty quickly if this is to work out i think. I just need to persuade her to take a step back and a deep breath. She has very definite ideas about what rels SHOULD be like and not much about what they are ACTUALLY like. - Beginning to this this is less a D/s issue or even a mental health problem lol.

As for non D/s connections (not that we have discussed D/s ones) not entirely sure if we have a match or not - im one of these people that is very easy to open up to and she rambles more than i do sometimes lol. I know alot about her childhood and history both good and bad. I do at times find her a lil 'low brow' - i am reserving judgement till i spend actual time with her - if we dont talk particuarly about anything or she bores me - ill let her down gentle and walk away. 

I do try though to be an optomist about these things and honestly im to old now to settle for a girl who thinks its perfectly normal to make herself into what her bf wants her to be (or what she THINKS he wants) if i cant curl up with her and have a convo about life and philosophy and current events then im not interested and i dont care how much i can use her body ...... or do i?..... lol no honestly i dont




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