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Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 8:00:00 AM   
Arastella


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So, for the most part, when you punish a slave/sub, usually a Dom/me will try to fit the punishment with the crime.  In your own opinion, what crime(s) would be a good reason to spank your slave/sub and what crimes don't merit a spanking, but possibly a different form of punishment?
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RE: Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 8:19:57 AM   
pdubau


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For me it is not the crime itself, but the effectiveness.  Will a spanking work?


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RE: Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 8:32:18 AM   
onestandingstill


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The infraction at hand, and the spanking as punishemt is unique to each person.
You can't necessarily say if X happens any sub gets Y exaclty the same way as a punishment.
Some are not ready, some enjoy that too much, and there's so many ways to punish other than spanking I'd probably not use it for punishment if I was the boss at all.
suzanne

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 8:52:48 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arastella
So, for the most part, when you punish a slave/sub, usually a Dom/me will try to fit the punishment with the crime.  In your own opinion, what crime(s) would be a good reason to spank your slave/sub and what crimes don't merit a spanking, but possibly a different form of punishment?

A spanking for me would be something fairly unimportant, and for something he should have known better to do and was just clueless that time.  The spanking would be a physical exclamation point on why it needs to be done and not to forget it next time.

The more effort and time it takes for a punishment, the more serious the issue- a spanking can be immediate and does not cause me much stress, emotionally or physically. 

And, as always, if I really had to think about a system of punishment, I would think there was already something wrong in the relationship.  It should be a very rare thing in our lives.

_____________________________

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 9:26:23 AM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arastella

So, for the most part, when you punish a slave/sub, usually a Dom/me will try to fit the punishment with the crime.  In your own opinion, what crime(s) would be a good reason to spank your slave/sub and what crimes don't merit a spanking, but possibly a different form of punishment?

In my particular case, because spanking is something I do for play, it would never be appropriate as a punishment simply because it isn't... for myself and those I choose, its fun.

However, in the spirit of your question, here are a few examples of situations and punishments I might apply with a brief explanation of each.

A girl I am currently considering has been very reluctant to answer her cell phone in any public place (why is not relevant here, suffice it to say its mostly just a habit).  This has gone against my instruction that when I call, she is to answer unless circumstance absolutely prohibit it.  She has, on several occasions disobeyed.  Her punishment was a 15 min lecture from me in which she got a good dose of my disapproval.  For the week following this was followed by me calling at random times which of course she had to answer or get another brief lecture.  Her habit soon changed.  There were actually two forms of punishment here, one was my disapproval, the other was the lectures.  Both are aversive stimuli (things she wants to avoid), and so she altered her behavior to avoid these two punishments.

Another example, a former girl I was training to adopt specific behaviors, in this case some basic position training (kneeling, crawling in a specific posture, etc.).  Initially she kept forgetting or would not assume the correct position.  When she failed to do so the punishment was to immediately be required to repeat the position until she had assumed the correct position ten times consecutively, after which she would be praised for having gotten it right.  The punishment in this case was the constant repetition, which again was something she wanted to avoid having to do.  Again, her behavior soon changed and she was assuming the correct postures when required to do so.  In this case the punishment had the additional advantage of also being behavioral skill training.  That is it not only helped correct the undesired behavior, but it taught precisely what was desired.

A third example is the most severe.  A number of years ago a girl I was dealing with engaged in lying to both me and a number of other people.  Her deceptions and some involved behaviors caused a number of people a lot of hurt, myself included.  To punish her I required her to write letters to everyone involved, explaining what she had done and offer her humblest appologies, and if necessary face anyone who wanted to confront her and accept whatever they had to say without protest or argument.  She was also put on probation with me and had to consciously work towards rebuilding the trust she had destroyed.  It was something she had to work at for a long time.  The fact that it was prolonged wasn't an intended part of the punishment, but a consequence of the broken trust (which is not rebuilt quickly).

In punishing a slave, I very rarely use corporeal punishments (ie, spankings, kneeling on rice kernels, etc.).  That is mainly because most of the slaves I've dealt with have been masochist to one degree or another.  Physical punishments were to them akin to throwing Burr Rabbit into the briar patch.  That is, not very effective as a punishment.  However, with a submissive who is not masochistic, physically aversive stimuli could be effective.  The two cautions I would give here are that a) don't mix things done in play with things done for punishment, this can create confusion and undesired by-product behaviors; and b) keep in mind a physical punishment need only be aversive to be effective, it does not have to be extreme to do so.

I'll give two more examples that are NOT punishments.

In several cases I've dealt with girls that had extreme fantasies that I felt inappropriate.  In each of these cases I simply ignored it and did nothing to indulge it.  Instead I focused on other fantasies and goals.  Eventually, in each case, the slave's fantasies faded.  This is a process known as extinction in behavioral psychology.  I present it only to point out not all behaviors need to be punished to be corrected.

Another, and unfortunate, case was a submissive with a fixation about tattoos.  She insisted on getting more despite the fact I had instructed her not too.  This led to my ending the relationship.  This was not punishment, but it was a consequence of her actions.  Whether it altered her behavior I can't say, it may or may not have.  The purpose here was not to alter her behavior, but simply end a situation that was not going to be productive for me.

As a last note, what I refer to above as punishment, some prefer to call discipline.  A fact that sometimes has caused misunderstandings and confusion.  Also note that in none of the above examples of punishment I gave was there any retributive or vengeful aspect.  In my considered opinion, anger and vengence have no place in the correct practice of punishment / discipline.

Edited to correct some typos and clarify two points.

< Message edited by Padriag -- 3/8/2007 10:14:05 AM >


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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 10:03:51 AM   
Vendaval


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I do not give spankings as punishment to my boys.
They enjoy the spankings and that would defeat the
purpose of the discipline.  A boring, tedious, mind-numbing
task is a better form of discipline in my household.

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 12:04:10 PM   
PONYSEEKER


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I dont spank as punishment becaues that would be more of a reward.

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 4:05:40 PM   
mstrjx


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My ideas of 'punishment' are slightly different.

I can give a spanking just for play.  I can give a spanking for punishment.  They really 'can' be the exact same spanking.

To me, punishment is the frame of mind I put a sub/slave in after some sort of serious infraction.  Usually it is verbal, and touches (mostly) emotionally.

So if this 'insertion into head' occurs in conjunction with a spanking, then that spanking will seem harsh, painful, and something to avoided at all costs another time.

But most people realize that a spanking (at another time, of course) given with praise and saucy talk and invoking a different sort of headspace is still 'play', for fun.  I can and will (daily, if we're both up to it) play for no other reason than that's how I want to spend that time.

I would hope that, for the most part, an activity, or a specific toy, or any of that, would be associated with punishment, in and of itself.  To me, most of the punishment is the things I do to one's head and heart.  That is where the most effective change in attitude will occur.  The rest is gravy.

Jeff

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/8/2007 5:59:23 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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Well for me physical punishments aren't much of a deterent. I enjoy the pain and would not see it as a punishment. Each sub/slave is differerent and different things work for others.  What is an infraction for one Master may not be one for another. There are no concrete rules. It is what is agreed upon. So different strokes for different folks.

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 6:31:38 AM   
Arastella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

My ideas of 'punishment' are slightly different.

I can give a spanking just for play.  I can give a spanking for punishment.  They really 'can' be the exact same spanking.

To me, punishment is the frame of mind I put a sub/slave in after some sort of serious infraction.  Usually it is verbal, and touches (mostly) emotionally.

So if this 'insertion into head' occurs in conjunction with a spanking, then that spanking will seem harsh, painful, and something to avoided at all costs another time.

But most people realize that a spanking (at another time, of course) given with praise and saucy talk and invoking a different sort of headspace is still 'play', for fun.  I can and will (daily, if we're both up to it) play for no other reason than that's how I want to spend that time.

I would hope that, for the most part, an activity, or a specific toy, or any of that, would be associated with punishment, in and of itself.  To me, most of the punishment is the things I do to one's head and heart.  That is where the most effective change in attitude will occur.  The rest is gravy.

Jeff
Thank you SO much, finally someone put into words the way I feel.  So many have wondered why Mistress spanks me as punishment when I tend to, at times, enjoy being spanked.  But its totally psychological.  I would never go out of my way to get spanked, considering I'd be getting punished, and in your head its a TOTALLY different thing than when given it FOR enjoyment.

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 6:33:18 AM   
Arastella


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I appreciate all the responses, but this has yet to answer my question.  Most of you have told me that you don't spank for punishment.  TRY and consider, if you DID use corporal punishment, what types of infractions would merit a spanking?

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 8:56:07 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I'm not sure why the myth that you can't use pain on someone who enjoys pain as punishment exists.

The human body can withstand far more pain that most masochists could ever process to begin with, so it's not that hard to go over their pain threshhold.  As well, if the person internalizes that this is a "bad reaction" and understands that this is a negative consequence for their behavior, then it doesn't matter WHAT you do- it will have the desired effect.

But somehow the myth persists that you can't spank someone who likes spanking as punishment.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 9:31:17 AM   
daddysprop247


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Arastella, i think that even with those who use corporal punishment, it is not limited to spanking. i am spanked as punishment on occasion, however for relatively minor infractions only (overcooking the eggs or leaving the hall light on). something more serious, and i get a "beating."

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 9:56:30 AM   
Arastella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm not sure why the myth that you can't use pain on someone who enjoys pain as punishment exists.

The human body can withstand far more pain that most masochists could ever process to begin with, so it's not that hard to go over their pain threshhold.  As well, if the person internalizes that this is a "bad reaction" and understands that this is a negative consequence for their behavior, then it doesn't matter WHAT you do- it will have the desired effect.

But somehow the myth persists that you can't spank someone who likes spanking as punishment.
You're ABSOLUTELY right and it tends to bother me sometimes.  People ask me why Mistress spanks me for punishment when I enjoy being spanked but its ALL psychological in all truth

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 10:26:06 AM   
onestandingstill


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I think a spanking that's because you're enjoying it and one where you've displeased your Dom/Domme are so emotionally different you could tap me with a noodle in punishment and I'd still be painfully heartbroken I failed My Sir.
For me it would not be about the intensity of force used in the punishment as much as the fact I disappointed him & blew it somehow.
Internal punishment effects me way more than anything someone could do to the surface of my skin.
I think for me even if I liked heavy spankings, if I got the exact same spanking in play one day and for punishment the next time even the bruises left behind would seem like different things to me.
One I'd be proud of and showing off if I get the chance and the others would leave me backing out of a room so no one would see my shame.
The psychological ramifications in the end are what punishes and disciplines me regardless of spanking, or not, hard or soft.
suzanne

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 10:43:26 AM   
ShogunSensei


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I don't want to reinforce the feeling of disappointment at failing/misbehaving/whatever with something that is perceived as a positive such as a spanking. 

I am going to punish wish something less desirable to reinforce that feeling in order to prevent future infractions.

Regards,

Shogun

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 12:51:34 PM   
mstrjx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arastella

I appreciate all the responses, but this has yet to answer my question.  Most of you have told me that you don't spank for punishment.  TRY and consider, if you DID use corporal punishment, what types of infractions would merit a spanking?



I don't punish often, but I have found that I haven't HAD to punish often.  It is usually for some gross disobedience, such as going against a very clear, direct, order.

I have given 'beatings of a lifetime'.  I have been more insidious and done things that didn't cause pain at all.  But as I said above, there is always some emotional 'spice' added to whatever physical (or not) 'brew'.

Jeff

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Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 1:12:33 PM   
Bearlee


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There is a part of me that rails against punishment.  For me, I think what LA had to say makes sense:  “...if I really had to think about a system of punishment, I would think there was already something wrong in the relationship.”  Having said that…while I’ve not been spanked for punishment, I have been told to sit facing a wall for a period of time, and then to write a paper.  I’ve also been placed against a wall or with hands on a chair and had a single-tail taken to my back-side; with no warm-up.  My response to punishment surprises me.  After the indignity of it all…I fall into serious remorse over having offended Him; and no amounts of physical punishment assuage those feelings.  This from a woman who adores whips and will stand till bloody…but punishment is always worse.
 
Go figure,
bearlee

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/9/2007 5:24:53 PM   
Kinkypupper


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I cannot think of any sorry.

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RE: Good reason for it - 3/10/2007 6:19:43 AM   
Arastella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

I cannot think of any sorry.
No problem, thanks for replying anyway.

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