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RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/10/2007 6:40:46 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		It's pretty easy to find the facts NG. Just do a basic Google search! Didn't your Guardian article tell you anything at all about the protesters? Or do you just assume that everyone on the planet is consumed with George Bush. Here's the first article that Google returned, just for an example:

" Taking part were various left-wing parties as well as a number of organizations that support the Lula government, such as the Workers Party (PT); the Communist Party of Brazil (PCdoB); the United Workers Central (CUT), the country’s main trade union federation; the National Union of Students; and the Movement of Landless Rural Workers (MST)."

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/03/10/18375229.php

It's really pretty easy to find facts on the internet, NG. Try it!


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Sanity, that's a fair old leap to call them extremists. Maybe they're just aware of Cuba and Nicaragua and are thinking no thanks.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/10/2007 7:08:08 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It's pretty easy to find the facts NG. Just do a basic Google search! Didn't your Guardian article tell you anything at all about the protesters? Or do you just assume that everyone on the planet is consumed with George Bush. Here's the first article that Google returned, just for an example:

" Taking part were various left-wing parties as well as a number of organizations that support the Lula government, such as the Workers Party (PT); the Communist Party of Brazil (PCdoB); the United Workers Central (CUT), the country’s main trade union federation; the National Union of Students; and the Movement of Landless Rural Workers (MST)."

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/03/10/18375229.php

It's really pretty easy to find facts on the internet, NG. Try it!


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Sanity, that's a fair old leap to call them extremists. Maybe they're just aware of Cuba and Nicaragua and are thinking no thanks.



Sanity:
Are you saying that students,laborers and unions should not be heard or that their opinions should not be considered?
thompson

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/10/2007 7:19:00 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		THAT'S quite a leap. No, that is not what I said, nor is it what I am saying. Not even remotely similar... how odd that you even ask.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Sanity:
Are you saying that students,laborers and unions should not be heard or that their opinions should not be considered?
thompson

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/10/2007 9:35:43 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrDouglas

If you really want to know what it is like, go ask one of the returning troops, it is a minority of them that are knocking the war, most are actually trying to go back over. 



There is an interesting article in Esquire this month, MstrDouglas, about the emotional trauma of returning from a war zone.

I studied this issue in college in reference to Vietnam.

Life during wartime is an adrenalin rush 24x7, colors are brighter, tastes are stronger, sex is mind-bending.

Life in the Real World never compares, and so you see an exorbitant amount of soldiers reenlist to get their fix of life during wartime.

To think they are doing it because they support the reasons we went to war seems a bit obtuse to me.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MstrDouglas)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/10/2007 11:52:38 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		"President's Proposed FY'07 Budget Cuts Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security"
In his proposed budget for the 2007 Fiscal Year, President Bush recommends funding cuts for public programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security in order to pay for permanent tax cuts and the war on terrorism. Experts believe that Congress will not pass the measures required to carry out the Bush budget plan - these cuts will be unpopular with voters, and this is an election year for many members of Congress.  http://healthinsurance.about.com/b/a/245106.htm

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Bush Budget: Cut Medicare and
Medicaid Growth Rate"
"Health experts also worry about proposed funding for diabetes, heart-disease programs"
 
By Steven Reinberg
HealthDay Reporter

MONDAY, Feb. 5 (HealthDay News) --
"President Bush's proposed $2.9 trillion federal budget, unveiled Monday, calls for health care spending cuts, including a major five-year reduction in Medicare expenditures to slow the program's annual growth rate from 6.5 percent to 5.6 percent.

The proposed total cuts of $78 billion for Medicare and Medicaid -- the federal health insurance programs for the elderly and lower-income Americans, respectively -- are part of Bush's plan to eliminate the federal deficit by 2012. However, Medicare spending would increase nearly $454 billion in 2008, an increase of $28 billion over this year, before the proposed reductions take effect."

http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=601658


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/11/2007 12:22:36 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		"US fights Latin America's suspicion"

By Jonathan Beale
BBC News, Washington
 
"Growing hostility
President Bush wants to deliver a positive message that will help "deepen democracies" and address social issues such as poverty and social exclusion.

While he will discuss a range of bilateral issues, promote the use of alternative fuels such as ethanol and talk of the need to counter poverty, the drugs trade and so on, the top issue that worries US diplomats is growing anti-Americanism in the region.

Washington feels it is being spurred by its public enemy number one in the region - Hugo Chavez, the President of Venezuela.
 
The United States is promoting ethanol in part to try to weaken Mr Chavez's diplomatic clout in the region - which is based largely on the country's oil reserves."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6432185.stm


(Edited for formatting)


< Message edited by Vendaval -- 3/11/2007 12:23:29 AM >

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to deadbluebird)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/11/2007 1:29:45 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It's pretty easy to find the facts NG. Just do a basic Google search! Didn't your Guardian article tell you anything at all about the protesters? Or do you just assume that everyone on the planet is consumed with George Bush. Here's the first article that Google returned, just for an example:

" Taking part were various left-wing parties as well as a number of organizations that support the Lula government, such as the Workers Party (PT); the Communist Party of Brazil (PCdoB); the United Workers Central (CUT), the country’s main trade union federation; the National Union of Students; and the Movement of Landless Rural Workers (MST)."

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/03/10/18375229.php

It's really pretty easy to find facts on the internet, NG. Try it!


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Sanity, that's a fair old leap to call them extremists. Maybe they're just aware of Cuba and Nicaragua and are thinking no thanks.



That's grand, but your quote offers no hint of the dark extremism (which you suggest).

It appears to be a coalition of groups across the political spectrum of the left. I'll take a wild stab in the dark and estimate there are students and trade unions in the US. I'll be surprised if they consider themselves extremists. By your logic, I'm an extremist.

The power of the word "communism" over some posters on this board is fascinating. It's hypnotic and mind-bending.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/11/2007 10:27:42 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Yes, as a matter of fact I do think that you are an extremist. And you don't? That is surprising to me.

Now, I never did hint at "dark" extremism as you say, but what I actually SAID when correcting your earlier post has been proved out, hasn't it. They aren't merely "locals" at all - it is a grab bag of assorted Leftists / Extremists who are protesting. You can thank me for correcting you later, I'm just always glad to help.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

That's grand, but your quote offers no hint of the dark extremism (which you suggest).

It appears to be a coalition of groups across the political spectrum of the left. I'll take a wild stab in the dark and estimate there are students and trade unions in the US. I'll be surprised if they consider themselves extremists. By your logic, I'm an extremist.

The power of the word "communism" over some posters on this board is fascinating. It's hypnotic and mind-bending.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/11/2007 9:55:28 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

THAT'S quite a leap. No, that is not what I said, nor is it what I am saying. Not even remotely similar... how odd that you even ask.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Sanity:
Are you saying that students,laborers and unions should not be heard or that their opinions should not be considered?
thompson



Sanity:
I have'nt lept anywhere.  I simply ask you a question.
Perhaps you will enlighten us and tell us just what you are saying.  You list the groups that were protesting ....for what purpose....to support them?  To add your voice to theirs?  Or to disparage and marginalize their position?
thompson

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/11/2007 11:08:36 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Yes, as a matter of fact I do think that you are an extremist. And you don't? That is surprising to me.


Please don't take offense, but I consider you an extremist too ... but for the other side. You seem unwilling to accept the obvious.
 
President Bush misled voters concerning his accomplishments in Texas, while he was Governor.
 
President Bush has repeatedly misled American citizens concerning the reasons for invading Iraq. The administration's only defense seems to be that Democrats voted for it too. I'm sorry, the "little Sally did it too" defense, stopped working for me in Middle School.
 
President Bush seems to be incapable of admitting a mistake, even when that mistake is so clear, a blind man can see it. He makes himself look foolish.
 
Yes, I think you are an extremist. I support President Bush, because it's in the best interest of the nation, at this point, to do so. He will be gone soon enough (thankfully) ... better to let him try to make some lemonaid out of the lemons we currently have.
 
You however, seem to be trying to convince us that the lemons are really sweet, ripe oranges.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/11/2007 11:26:33 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

"President's Proposed FY'07 Budget Cuts Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security"
In his proposed budget for the 2007 Fiscal Year, President Bush recommends funding cuts for public programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security in order to pay for permanent tax cuts and the war on terrorism. Experts believe that Congress will not pass the measures required to carry out the Bush budget plan - these cuts will be unpopular with voters, and this is an election year for many members of Congress.
 
http://healthinsurance.about.com/b/a/245106.htm

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Bush Budget: Cut Medicare and
Medicaid Growth Rate"
"Health experts also worry about proposed funding for diabetes, heart-disease programs"
 
By Steven Reinberg
HealthDay Reporter

MONDAY, Feb. 5 (HealthDay News) --
"President Bush's proposed $2.9 trillion federal budget, unveiled Monday, calls for health care spending cuts, including a major five-year reduction in Medicare expenditures to slow the program's annual growth rate from 6.5 percent to 5.6 percent.

The proposed total cuts of $78 billion for Medicare and Medicaid -- the federal health insurance programs for the elderly and lower-income Americans, respectively -- are part of Bush's plan to eliminate the federal deficit by 2012. However, Medicare spending would increase nearly $454 billion in 2008, an increase of $28 billion over this year, before the proposed reductions take effect."

http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=601658



He'll cut elderly people's social security and medicare but no foreign aid cuts first? What a guy!
Can he get any worse? What's he going to do next give "Amnesties" to any people in S. America who want to be future illegal aliens in the U.S.?
What's that old French saying, "Let them eat cake?"
Sorry people but Bush is no longer working for the American People.
Time for him to go! He's no Republican.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 12:34:17 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Getting back on topic, the director of the Hemispheric Institute, University of California (I don't know if that is a respected academy) said on the BBC World Service that never before has American policy in Latin America been so inappropriate and so irrelevent. Bush has neglected Latin America for all of his Presidency and South America have experimented with relations with countries they have never before has dealings with and are finding more fruitful relationships than they have with the US. Cuba has never before been so popular in South America and South America have realised they don't need the USA. This has happened because Bush has staff that are zealots and out to get Cuba at any price rather that being pragmatic and cultivating proper diplomatic relations.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 4:09:04 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		It's hard to trust the news, popeye. You have to be careful when reading it. Have you wondered why this hasn't run in any of the regular news outlets? It's because the President's just trying to cut the rate of growth. The budget is actually ballooning! They're calling an increase a cut - they're speaking in Washongtonese, that strange language of bureaucrats and Liberals who spend our money like it grows on trees. When was the last time Washington made ANY actual budget cuts?

"MONDAY, Feb. 5 (HealthDay News) -- President Bush's proposed $2.9 trillion federal budget, unveiled Monday, calls for health care spending cuts, including a major five-year reduction in Medicare expenditures to slow the program's annual growth rate from 6.5 percent to 5.6 percent."
 
http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=601658

< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/12/2007 4:14:45 AM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 4:50:00 AM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It's hard to trust the news, popeye. You have to be careful when reading it. Have you wondered why this hasn't run in any of the regular news outlets? It's because the President's just trying to cut the rate of growth. The budget is actually ballooning! They're calling an increase a cut - they're speaking in Washongtonese, that strange language of bureaucrats and Liberals who spend our money like it grows on trees. When was the last time Washington made ANY actual budget cuts?

"MONDAY, Feb. 5 (HealthDay News) -- President Bush's proposed $2.9 trillion federal budget, unveiled Monday, calls for health care spending cuts, including a major five-year reduction in Medicare expenditures to slow the program's annual growth rate from 6.5 percent to 5.6 percent."
 
http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=601658


Value of the dollar on internaional currency markets is also an impact. When China starts to divest its US dollar bonds and invest in other investments (announced last week) there is likely to be a further devaluation of the dollar and so pressure to raise US interest rates. Cantremember the figures but it was trillions of dollars I think. 

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 7:31:47 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		I am only saying that contrary to what is being hinted at here, it isn't everyone in the world who is protesting the President, it's just the tiniest fraction - namely the extremists. And they are marginalized by who they are, not by anything I say. They have the right to protest so far as I am concerned, but we shouldn't lose proper perspective, should we.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Sanity:
I have'nt lept anywhere.  I simply ask you a question.
Perhaps you will enlighten us and tell us just what you are saying.  You list the groups that were protesting ....for what purpose....to support them?  To add your voice to theirs?  Or to disparage and marginalize their position?
thompson


< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/12/2007 7:39:14 AM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 7:53:49 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		150 protesters in Columbia is a good turn out, considering that social organizers are usually killed down there.

I liked the spin where the site historically used for ritual slaughter and cannibalism needed to be PURIFIED after Bush's visit.

Zing! That's gotta hurt!





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 7:58:36 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I am only saying that contrary to what is being hinted at here, it isn't everyone in the world who is protesting the President, it's just the tiniest fraction - namely the extremists. And they are marginalized by who they are, not by anything I say. They have the right to protest so far as I am concerned, but we shouldn't lose proper perspective, should we.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Sanity:
I have'nt lept anywhere.  I simply ask you a question.
Perhaps you will enlighten us and tell us just what you are saying.  You list the groups that were protesting ....for what purpose....to support them?  To add your voice to theirs?  Or to disparage and marginalize their position?
thompson


Sanity:
It appears that you are saying that students,laborors and unions are extremest.  Perhaps it might be instructive if you were to define for us your perception of extremest, and if you feel that they have a rightful place in the body politic.
thompson

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 8:00:05 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I am only saying that contrary to what is being hinted at here, it isn't everyone in the world who is protesting the President, it's just the tiniest fraction - namely the extremists. And they are marginalized by who they are, not by anything I say. They have the right to protest so far as I am concerned, but we shouldn't lose proper perspective, should we.



I think if you took off your blinkers or maybe took a trip outside the US, you'd find quite a lot of affluent middleclass, middle of the road, extremists in the world. Bush has managed to make a lot of usually pro-American people, question America.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 10:48:43 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Yes, as a matter of fact I do think that you are an extremist. And you don't? That is surprising to me.



I'm not that interested in swapping opinions of extremism with you, so I won't.

A couple of facts:

The actions of your government have led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people (both directly and indirectly).

The British left tend to champion social responsibility, civil liberties, anti-war principles and environmental concern.

In other words, we're talking mass killing (your government) versus human rights (the British left). Take your pick which you believe is the more extreme form of politics. No skin off my nose either way.

I know who I've thrown my lot in with, not sure about you.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Bush visit ignites violence between police, protesters - 3/12/2007 10:57:47 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Assuming that EVERYBODY hates America now, as you desperately claim, what makes you think it's President Bush who's caused it. Perhaps it's Leftist whackos who caused it, by going around screaming lies like "GEORGE BUSH IS STEALING IRAQS' OIL" and "GEORGE BUSH HATES BLACK PEOPLE" and "GEORGE BUSH IS A NAZI" and on and on and on. You're even saying something like that now, aren't you, when you say "GEORGE BUSH MADE EVERYONE HATE AMERICA".

But I don't even buy your premise in the first place. 2000 hateful peace rioters isn't even a drop in the bucket when it comes to a percentage of the total population, it's less than a fraction of a percent - hardly even newsworthy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I think if you took off your blinkers or maybe took a trip outside the US, you'd find quite a lot of affluent middleclass, middle of the road, extremists in the world. Bush has managed to make a lot of usually pro-American people, question America.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 80
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