RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 7:42:38 AM)

People settle to satisfy an immediate need for sensation and don't want to wait. Then there is the legitimate fear that you can wait forever. The balancing act comes in deciding which would be worse; waiting on the sidelines or being in the middle of a 'game' when your mate comes into your life.

But confusion shouldn't enter into the picture unless you and your partners emotions and mindset don't match. People give lip service to communication, but most avoid communicating something that the other person doesn't want to hear, especially to someone that they like. Truth and honest disclosure of desires is rare. Why do people who start as enemies sometimes end up together in the closest of relationships? Its because while enemies they spoke to each other honestly. They didn't consider hurting feelings, in fact it may have been their goal. But in the end that process set up a stronger foundation to built upon than when desires and feelings are held back with the rationalization to not offend or hurt the other's feelings. 

One way love kills. One way facilitation of another's physical desires without passion can lead to frustration and a sense of emotional abandonment; leading to a partner making passionate love to the image on a flickering computer screen.

Life happens fast. You need to test yourself regularly to make sure you aren't rationalizing your existence.

Have fun, seek out challenges, don't take yourself too seriously, be pragmatic, learn, be ready; and eating and having cake is possible. "Settle" and expect to be unhappy.



Wildfleurs -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 8:08:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

I know that different things are for different people.
 
But why is a person "confused" if they want to be both lover/boyfriend/girlfriend AND Dom/me?
 
I know this is probably just another case of people projecting their own ideals on others.
 
But I'd like to get some ideas from people (without the farkin flame war) as to why they themselves cannot have both.  Without tearing into people who ARE both or want to be both.


I think you can have both, but having an equals dynamic (which is what a boyfriend/girlfriend or girlfriend/girlfriend or boyfriend/boyfriend relationship is) will comprimise the dominant/submissive dynamic unless priority is placed on the dominant/submissive dynamic (hey you gotta make a choice one way or the other eventually I think).

Edited to add: I don't think that people who have a boyfriend/girlfriend dynamic and d/s dominant are confused tho.

C~



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 8:42:05 AM)

quote:

things are for different people.
I know that different things are for different people.

But why is a person "confused" if they want to be both lover/boyfriend/girlfriend AND Dom/me?

I know this is probably just another case of people projecting their own ideals on others.

But I'd like to get some ideas from people (without the farkin flame war) as to why they themselves cannot have both.  Without tearing into people who ARE both or want to be both.

Same reason some people get confused when they see a christian having lunch with a pagan, or a slave sitting on furniture holding another slaves leash.

Our brains like to make the world easy and compartmentalized.  We like to put things into easy labeled boxes  and related boxes to eachother in a certain way. 

We grow up and are shown a large majority of one version of "loving adult relationships"- when we get into "all this" our ideas of "this" and "that" seem very incongruent and we struggle to find out how to fit what we want and what works with us into what we've been taught/what we've taught ourselves.

When we confront something that doesn't fit the boxes, our brains go all wonky and get confused.  In bdsm/Ds, a lot of people come into this with preconceived ideas, and tend to gain even more of them as they get started.  These ideas, even if they don't mesh with what the person really WANTS, can quickly become solid reality and difficult to break from.




GeekyGirl -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:00:30 AM)

quote:

having an equals dynamic (which is what a boyfriend/girlfriend or girlfriend/girlfriend or boyfriend/boyfriend relationship is) will comprimise the dominant/submissive dynamic unless priority is placed on the dominant/submissive dynamic


Depends on your definition of boyfriend/girlfriend. For me, a "boyfriend" indicates a person I hang out with as opposed to someone I just meet up with for sex. We go to dinner together, go to movies together, meet each other's families and friends, spend holidays together and are there for each other in our daily lives as opposed to just being around each other when we want kinky sex. My boyfriend would be a  person I talk to about my problems, watch cartoons with, play video games with etc. By my definition, I can't see how it would compromise my D/s dynamic. I'm still his submissive at dinner and the movies just as much as I can be his submissive naked in the bedroom.



Wildfleurs -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:07:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

having an equals dynamic (which is what a boyfriend/girlfriend or girlfriend/girlfriend or boyfriend/boyfriend relationship is) will comprimise the dominant/submissive dynamic unless priority is placed on the dominant/submissive dynamic


Depends on your definition of boyfriend/girlfriend. For me, a "boyfriend" indicates a person I hang out with as opposed to someone I just meet up with for sex. We go to dinner together, go to movies together, meet each other's families and friends, spend holidays together and are there for each other in our daily lives as opposed to just being around each other when we want kinky sex. My boyfriend would be a  person I talk to about my problems, watch cartoons with, play video games with etc. By my definition, I can't see how it would compromise my D/s dynamic. I'm still his submissive at dinner and the movies just as much as I can be his submissive naked in the bedroom.



Regardless of the definition a boyfriend and girlfriend (at least in Western culture) do not have a clear power/control/authority imbalance.  A boyfriend/girlfriend relationship is one where they share the power/control/authority (i.e. equals). 

C~



GeekyGirl -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:10:20 AM)

I disagree wildfleur.

Playing xbox and eating pizza together doesn't in any way affect his clear authority over me.

But then again, it has to do with definition of boyfriend.

To me the distinction between a "boyfriend dom" and a "regular dom" for ME would be this: a BF dom would be someone I "hang out" with and a non BF dom would be someone I only meet up with for sex.

The "love" and "friendship" aspects would be what makes him a BF dom.

If he kisses me often, tells me he loves me, spends a lot of time with me, invites me out to do vanilla things, etc, he's a BF dom to me. That in no way negates his total and complete power and control over me.

BF status has nothing to do with power and everything to do with whether or not I go over to his house for a reason other than screwing :)

ETA: A BF dom would be someone I would invite over for christmas dinner or over to my parents house...Still nothing to do with power and everything to do with whether he has a place in my vanilla life.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:18:34 AM)

I was not my masters girlfriend, or friend.  But we still went out to the movies together and, 90% of the time to the world looked like any gf/bf.

But trust me, the dynamics were not.  In that relationship, we would not have functioned as both master/slave and bf/gf.  Our relationship was based on having an authority dynamic between us.

Currently, my relationship with my partner is based on love and mutual expectations.  The authority dynamic is something we add on as we feel appropriate.  I am his girlfriend/lover and mistress/slave. 



GeekyGirl -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:21:46 AM)

Good point LA...the "love and emotion" aspect is a key thing too. Let me rephrase my earlier statement...a boyfriend is someone whom I hang out with AND have a love-type emotional connection with.

Which, for me, is the only type of relationship I have an interest in. I would not submit to a man unless I was in love with him, or felt I might be in the process of falling in love with.

If he isn't interested in being best friends, getting married, having a home together, and growing old together, then I'm not interested in him. His interest in doing those things is a part of what makes him a "boyfriend" as opposed to just a "dom."




Dnomyar -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:31:44 AM)

It all boild down to supply and demand Aine. Sorry there is only one of me.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:34:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
Good point LA...the "love and emotion" aspect is a key thing too. Let me rephrase my earlier statement...a boyfriend is someone whom I hang out with AND have a love-type emotional connection with.

Oh sorry for not clarifying- my master and I loved eachother and had deep emotions between us.  It's just not what the relationship was based on.



NightWindWhisper -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:35:04 AM)

Most d/s couples seem to be lovers and d/s partners.  However there are some whose beliefs or styles are such that they believe that the affection of being lovers will impede the d/s component.  After all, at the far end of the continuum of slavery the slave is mere property and it is a bit oxymoronic to call one's slave as property and girlfriend at the same time.  So if it suits the iterests of both parties, then there would be a d/s relationship without the boyfriend/girlfriend component.  I have seen it work for some, though it does not appear common.

I have noticed a common thread where this does occur.  That is a so-called "trainer dom" who is married, and feels comfortable dominating but not developing an emotional attachment to the other.

I think for most in a coupled d/s relationship that the other is a boyfriend/girlfriend, SO, lover or something that connotes emotional bonding.



thetammyjo -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 9:48:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

I know that different things are for different people.

But why is a person "confused" if they want to be both lover/boyfriend/girlfriend AND Dom/me?

I know this is probably just another case of people projecting their own ideals on others.

But I'd like to get some ideas from people (without the farkin flame war) as to why they themselves cannot have both. Without tearing into people who ARE both or want to be both.


Well, I don't feel confusion over it at all.

To me being a vanilla partner is a very different role from being a Ds partner.

I desire success in my Ds relationship and over the years I have learned that this is most likely to happen when the roles are simple and specific.

Doesn't mean the roles won't look similar to outsiders but that they are clearly different in my household.




KeirasSecret -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 10:33:04 AM)

quote:

But I'd like to get some ideas from people (without the farkin flame war) as to why they themselves cannot have both.


In my first response I gave one example of why I do not have a bf/gf relationship with my Dom. I’ve thought of a couple of other reasons since.

When I first came to CM I was new to D/s. Since I did not have any experience with this type of relationship, and was not even sure I was a submissive, I did not think it was a good idea to get involved with someone who wanted a live in relationship; which is what I would want, if I were going the bf/gf route. (I jumped in; I didn’t do it head first [:)] )

My third reason for my decision has to do with certain
circumstances in my life at this time; I think my introduction of a boyfriend (Dom or otherwise), would be similar to building a house, throwing gas on it, and then lighting a match.

Reason number four, this is the type of relationship Sir offered me. His beliefs and personality match my own nicely; therefore I plan to stick with what I have as long as he will have me, and enjoy the ride.

Still willing to live and let live.

Be well,



completenz -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 10:53:41 AM)

we have it all and neither of us wanted it any other way. He is my Dom, this is what led us to find each other BUT, He is also my lover, my best friend and soon to be, my husband. We believe that we complete each other, both in our D/s needs and in the vanilla world.
You can have it all, with the right person.
C & c



defiantbadgirl -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 5:48:53 PM)

I always thought having your cake and eating it too referred to those who had a vanilla relationship and a play partner on the side (meaning 2 separate people)



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 8:26:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
I always thought having your cake and eating it too referred to those who had a vanilla relationship and a play partner on the side (meaning 2 separate people)

It can mean anything in which a person wants it all without giving up anything on their own, usually to the detriment of others.



AquaticSub -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/9/2007 11:15:28 PM)

I was Valyraen's girlfriend before I was his kitten. Now I am simply both, along with his friend and lover. It has always been very important to him that I remain his girlfriend throughout our journey.



Aine -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/10/2007 7:15:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I always thought having your cake and eating it too referred to those who had a vanilla relationship and a play partner on the side (meaning 2 separate people)


Having your cake and eating it too, can mean a plethora of things.



Aine -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/10/2007 7:19:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
I always thought having your cake and eating it too referred to those who had a vanilla relationship and a play partner on the side (meaning 2 separate people)

It can mean anything in which a person wants it all without giving up anything on their own, usually to the detriment of others.


Yeah, the detriment to all those Dom/mes and subs that seem to think they are lightyears better than my partner.  [:D]



eyesopened -> RE: Why can't people have their cake and eat it too? (3/10/2007 8:39:23 AM)

i get a chuckle out of people who refer to BDSM and/or D/s as "lifestyle" but religate it to only a small aspect of their life, not as an entire style of living.  Personally, i'm more confused by folks who want their cake only as dessert.  i don't judge other people's dynamics but i have seen a whole lot of people who use BDSM as a vehicle for avoiding intimacy where i can't understand how one can live and grow without intimacy.

i was recently told that i should not have a profile on this site unless i was willing to play and/or fuck casually because that's what sites like this are for.  i have been told by one member here that i am too old and too ugly to expect a "relationship" and that it's time i got real and discovered that yes, all the good ones ARE taken and to get my head out of the clouds or out of my ass.

i more recently met One who is the same, all the time, whether speaking to me or to His employees or the wait staff at the restaurant.  He is naturally Dominant all of the time and He only wants a relationship that is a total style of living, work, play, awake, asleep, as Master and slave, as two human beings who accept Dominance and submission as their natural order of things and still be friend, lover, and companion.

Perhaps it's because i was raised in an era where there was such things as "a Man's Job" and "woman's work" and the fact that my mother openly adores my father and worships him and he adores her and relies upon her.  i grew up in a household where men were the undisputed head of the household and no one got their undies in a bunch over it and yet there was love and respect and common goals.



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