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domtimothy46176 -> RE: Did we Belong in Iraq (4/3/2005 11:23:58 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sissyslave71
quote:
I think those who point an accusing finger in the direction of oil money are limiting themselves to an extremely small and ultimately meaningless aspect of the equation
I don't. The perpetrators of this mess should be exposed in every way and let the chips fall where they may. THAT'S evolution.
One puppet government is being replaced with a new puppet government. I don't see how that is going to make any difference for the well being of Iraqis. Iraq is decending into anarchy and chaos. People are being murdered, blown up and blugeoned on both sides of the fence. Who is to blame for this? Saddam Hussein? I don't think so.
Did Iraq attack the United States population?...NO.
Did Saddam have "Weapons of Mass Destruction" or yellow uranium cake from Niger? NO.It was a LIE. The invasion was not justified and now 1200+ US servicemen and women are dead 10 thousand or more severely injured. 10s of thousands of innocent Iraqis (not soldiers) are dead and the country is contaminated with TONS of Depleted Uranium Rounds and CBU-59/B Cluster bomblets that will cause even more deaths.
THAT is the reality.
Exposing the masters of this war shows the true nature of these individuals as the greedy, sick, sadistic predators that they are.
BTW..Christian extremists are just as bad as Muslim extremists.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/29/schuster.column/
http://www.cultnews.net/
Learn more about how the American government treats its veterans and Depleted Uranium here:
http://www.gulfwarvets.com/
OK, so you liked things better the way they were before we invaded. Not a problem for me, you're entitled to whatever politicial views you like. There are a few factual points, however, where I believe you are incorrect.
"One puppet government is being replaced with a new puppet government. I don't see how that is going to make any difference for the well being of Iraqis. Iraq is decending into anarchy and chaos. People are being murdered, blown up and blugeoned on both sides of the fence. Who is to blame for this? Saddam Hussein? I don't think so."
Iraq recently held elections. The Iraqi people chose their new leadership. I see that as progress, possibly making a big difference in the course of their country. At the least it is a departure from the tyranny under which they lived before the previopus government was toppled. Change is sometimes chaotic but there is no case to be made for the idea that Iraq is "descending into anarchy". While there are, indeed, casualties on both sides of the fence, the numbers are small, given the size of the population. People die every day in every corner of the globe, it happens. Politically-motivated killings are also a common event around the world. The Iraqi government, under the leadership of Saddam routinely engaged in politically motivated killings. The only real difference now is that the ability to kill with impugnity is diminished.
"Did Iraq attack the United States population?...NO."
Correct. Your point was what exactly?
"Did Saddam have "Weapons of Mass Destruction" or yellow uranium cake from Niger? NO.It was a LIE."
Actually, you're wrong in both suppositions. While there has been no evidence found that there is uranium in Iraq now, neither is there conclusive evidence that there was not uranium in Iraq at the time intelligence reports suggested there might be. Lack of evidence keeps the question open.
Secondly, reporting that "our best intelligence suggests that Iraq may be attempting to acquire uranium" when ,in fact, our best intelligence was reporting that very thing is the truth, by definition. The fact that our intelligence might have been wrong is irrelevant.
"The invasion was not justified and now 1200+ US servicemen and women are dead 10 thousand or more severely injured."
This is your personal opinion. Mine differs. We do, however agree that an incredibly small percentage of our troops have been killed or wounded in this action, although we differ in our definition of 'severely wounded'.
"10s of thousands of innocent Iraqis (not soldiers) are dead and the country is contaminated with TONS of Depleted Uranium Rounds and CBU-59/B Cluster bomblets that will cause even more deaths."
Compared to the millions of Iraqi citizens killed by the Hussein government, I think the collateral damage is quite acceptable. Unfortunately, civilian casualties are a fact of war. I think we've done a marvelous job of keeping the number to a minimum. Too bad the rebels aren't nearly as ethical as our forces.
"THAT is the reality."
As interpreted by your personal biases. My reality is much different. In my reality, we're saving millions of lives and transforming a tyranny into a true democracy, raising the quality of life for the citizens of Iraq and giving uncounted millions of Arabs a beacon of hope. Personal perspective has a way of making reality look very different to people of opposing views.
"Exposing the masters of this war shows the true nature of these individuals as the greedy, sick, sadistic predators that they are."
The masters of this war? Are you referring to just George Bush, Tony Blair and Saddam Hussein, as the original planners or your "vast right-wing conspiracy"? No matter how thick you lay on the inflammatory rhetoric, I remain less than impressed. If you want to cite abuse of power, let's talk about the excesses of the Congress as it interprets the idea of "interstate Commerce" to justify the continual erosion of State's rights or the absolute disregard of the Judicial branch for acquitting their duty to apply the laws as passed rather than rewriting them from the bench, a clear infringement of the authority of the Legislative and Executive branches.
"BTW..Christian extremists are just as bad as Muslim extremists."
Luckily, they're better civilized and lazier. Give the Palestinians jobs so they can afford to swing by their neighborhood Walmart and grab a gallon of milk for the kiddies before stopping by Pizza Hut to pick up a pizza and Blockbuster to rent a movie and the majority will be satisfied to sit at home and get fat and lazy just like their American counterparts. What makes the Muslim fanatics dangerous is how little some of them have to live for. it's no coincidence that the largest majority of violent Christian groups in the US, such as the KKK, Aryan Nation, etc. are populated by uneducated poor people.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/29/schuster.column/
I appreciate you citing this link. I think it draws the parallel I'm making quite well. Education, both here and abroad are needed to combat this type of thinking.
http://www.cultnews.net/
Although I can't say I accept the credibility of this source without doing more research, even taken at face value it fails to offer a convincing argument that an increased standard of living and education aren't the key to sociological change in the Middle East. One can't extropolate the affect of educational and economic change on the average poverty-stricken muslim from the actions of a few of the disaffected middle class. You're offering apples to my oranges.
"Learn more about how the American government treats its veterans and Depleted Uranium here:
http://www.gulfwarvets.com/
This is a completely different subject and one on which we might agree on. It is, however, not germane to a discussion on the relative merits of intervention in Iraq. The dangers faced by the average soldier are similar in degree regardless of the arena of battle.
You might be able to put forward a more convincing argument if you concentrated more on concrete data and less on rhetoric. As it is, your position is weak and amounts to no more than personal animus.
Timothy
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