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Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 1:26:24 PM   
cloudboy


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I was in Barnes and Noble having a coffee, and as is my custom, I pick a book to browse and if I like it, I buy it.

So, much to my own surprise, I bought Maureen Dowd's, ARE MEN NECESSARY, WHEN SEXES COLLIDE.

I don't want to pump the book, but I thought his passage was particulary pointed to my own 40 year old condition.

"Sex is a spiritual obligation. It makes up for the poverty of bourgeois experience. We're too late for the Spanish Civil War. We missed landing at Omaha Beach. But still we need to know what we're capable of. So it is in the realm of private life that we have to risk ourselves, to disclose ourselves, to vindicate ourselves; and the more private, the more illuminating. Our theater for self discovery is smaller. And in this lucky but shrunken theater, the bedroom looms very large. It is the front line, the foxhole.

The bedroom is where people who live otherwise safe lives can learn how cowardly or courageous they are, what their deepest and most dangerous desires are, whether they can follow unreason within them to what it, too, can teach."

Dowd quoting Leon Wieseltier, literary editor of the New Republic.

One thing about BDSM is that it gives its practitioners a lexicon and layout for adventure. I suppose one might even refer to it as our own "manual" of unreason.
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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 2:17:38 PM   
frostyslave


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline 		The world would be a much more violent place if women were left to themselves with their seemingly unlimited supply of envy for each other.  Men provide order and stability in what would otherwise be an estrogen fueled clusterfuck of anarchy and misery.  We see bombs rain down on cities, the occasional genocide, male crime rates, etc, but it would be much much worse if women ran the show. 

Women also need the cock. 

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 6:20:40 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Hmmm....don't tell the lesbians.

Master Fire

< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 3/11/2007 6:21:04 PM >

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 6:33:47 PM   
ladyofthecastle


Posts: 46
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		I have personally had more male slaves then female and yes men are very neccessary if only because they are so much fun to torture! 

On a serious note I would not trade my pet, life partner, slut, slave, and husband for anything in the world he is my ying and yang. Just don't tell him that when I am mad. It's much to fun to see him crawl.

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 6:46:06 PM   
LadyHugs


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Status: offline 		Dear frostyslave, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Interesting philosophy.
 
Interesting is history as well.  Perhaps the men who started wars since civilization had too much estrogen?  Wars are fought for economics, for strategic land possessions and showing of 'strength.'
 
Men need someplace to put their phallus -- otherwise it would be created longer as to insert in their other orifice where the sun doesn't shine and can reproduce, carry a bun in the oven for nine months and deliver.  Hopefully, when the time came--the chap wouldn't confuse their male offspring with another load of [insert whatever one uses for human solid waste.] [Chuckles]
 
Respectfully submitted with a bit of humor,
Lady Hugs

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 6:54:11 PM   
undergroundsea


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From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		Hmmm. Not having read the book and with the information in your post alone, I don't see the connection between the thread title, and the passage you quote as well the observation you share.

I am pondering the point about BDSM being a lexicon. I take your reference to BDSM to mean organized BDSM (or simply the knowledge that BDSM exists as a greater practice beyond one's individual interests). I think this knowledge might help for deeper exploration. I think it does so by allowing exchange of ideas and compelling one to think about BDSM more than one might individually. And I think it helps through concepts and terminology that provide a vehicle for thought, as happens with any other subject in life. However, I think BDSM can be practiced without knowledge of the greater BDSM community. That is, using a lexicon or interacting with others with the same focus may broaden one's horizons for how the language is used, but one can learn to speak, at least at a basic level, without using the lexicon.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 7:32:58 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

I don't see the connection between the thread title, and the passage you quote as well the observation you share.


Yes, the post is more about the quote, the thread title is just the title of the book. I suppose its confusing.

"The bedroom is where people who live otherwise safe lives can learn how cowardly or courageous they are, what their deepest and most dangerous desires are, whether they can follow unreason within them to what it, too, can teach."

The key to acting on "unreason" is to decode it. BDSM, as a lexicon, helps us do that. BDSM acts as a roadmap.

Imagine all of us, with our strange urges and desires, without the internet and the media --- those mediums that told us that: a) we are not alone and; b) O, I see, I can act on these twisted desires.

Where would we be with our unreason then? I shudder to think of it.





< Message edited by cloudboy -- 3/11/2007 7:37:53 PM >

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 7:56:37 PM   
undergroundsea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
The key to acting on "unreason" is to decode it. BDSM, as a lexicon, helps us do that. BDSM acts as a roadmap.

Imagine all of us, with our strange urges and desires, without the internet and the media --- those mediums that told us that: a) we are not alone and; b) O, I see, I can act on these twisted desires.


I agree for the most part. I think knowledge that BDSM exists and involvement with the greater BDSM community (online communities, RL communities, or books) does help one's exploration. And concepts and terms like subspace, consent, and consensual non-consent enable thought and exploration of BDSM. The point I attempted to convey was that BDSM can still be explored at some level--perhaps a basic level--without this knowledge. As an example, I am thinking of whatever BDSM activity some of us had before knowing there was a greater BDSM community. And I am allowing for the possibility that a couple may still explore various areas of BDSM, even advanced ones, without knowing about the greater BDSM community by acting on their desires and with appropriate communication.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 3/11/2007 7:57:33 PM >

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 8:19:15 PM   
Lashra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: frostyslave

The world would be a much more violent place if women were left to themselves with their seemingly unlimited supply of envy for each other.  Men provide order and stability in what would otherwise be an estrogen fueled clusterfuck of anarchy and misery.  We see bombs rain down on cities, the occasional genocide, male crime rates, etc, but it would be much much worse if women ran the show. 

Women also need the cock. 

Not all women are envious of other women. I am quite happy with myself and my own life so I do not need to envy another woman. Woman usually bring peace and stability, whereas many men <not all> bring war and somtimes chaos. I guess it depends on how you feel about the sexes as to how your opinion will go.  Personally I like women and men, I do not see one as superior to the other. We are equal in many ways and yet different enough to keep it interesting.

As for cock, a strap on works nicely just as a fake pussy could work for men if women suddenly vanished from the planet. Or there is that girl on girl action or guy on guy action. When desperate humans will improvise.

~Lashra

< Message edited by Lashra -- 3/11/2007 8:20:26 PM >

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 8:19:51 PM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Are men necessary?  yes, people need people.
no matter the gender.

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 8:25:45 PM   
Misstoyou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

"So it is in the realm of private life that we have to risk ourselves, to disclose ourselves, to vindicate ourselves; and the more private, the more illuminating. "



I don't know, perhaps this quotation is more applicable to submissives rather than dominants? One could argue that one's risk is less for the one is control. I perceive it that way for my submissives; that's why I credit them with so much courage, :) , especially since they have to deal with my own issues about self-disclosure.

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a.k.a. "mean Lady"


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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/11/2007 10:54:22 PM   
LadyPact


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Status: offline 		For those of us who are strictly, well... it rhymes with strictly, I would believe men are still necessary.

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/12/2007 5:13:27 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Despite that men and women are not really all that different in many ways, and there are huge overlaps of personality and character (re Bems SRI), there yet remains a qualitative difference between the vast majority of each side - a very small proportion of each side being variable, sometimes into the qualities of the other, but most being clearly identifiable as female or male from manner, behaviour and motivation.

Having experienced enough of both sides of this divide, I can say that yes, men are necessary, just as women are necessary. They are not opposites, they are not of different value; rather they are as nature requires, complementary to one another. Not only because one without the other would mean extinction, or because at the level of cave dwellers men are necessary for hunting and protection whilst women are required for rearing offspring and domestic duties, but because in simple psychological terms the female needs the physical strength of the male as the male needs the emotional support of the female, exceptions naturally permitting.

E



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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/12/2007 8:37:11 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
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Status: offline 		Of course men are necessary!   I could never do these evil things to a woman.
Just kiddin'...  I'm pretty nice to men on the days I'm not pre/post menstrual, being annoyed by anyone, or ovulating, LMAO.    M

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/12/2007 9:01:10 AM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

Of course men are necessary! I could never do these evil things to a woman.
Just kiddin'... I'm pretty nice to men on the days I'm not pre/post menstrual, being annoyed by anyone, or ovulating, LMAO. M


No problem. I kind of botched the thread by putting the wrong title on it. On the other hand, my CIAW thread took off like a bottle rocket, but unfortunately I could not recommend anyone to follow it. In my own defense, I can say ---- I only posted twice (2x) into it.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 3/12/2007 9:02:15 AM >

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/12/2007 9:07:39 AM   
MissyRane


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Status: offline 		If I were to live in a menless world..........................oh god I would commit suicide...........

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/12/2007 9:27:57 AM   
SylphandJflynn


Posts: 7
Joined: 3/6/2007
Status: offline 		Are men necessary, for the human genome , yes. There are several chromosones that need pieces from both sexes. If one of those pieces are absent, there are genetic syndromes that occur.

Reproduction aside, I think we are doing a diservice in our socialization of the sexes. I think we should as a society allow pple to present who they are without rigid social constraints. I think we should allow pple to find relationships that fulfill them and not demean nontraditional relationships. Gender bashing is not helpful on either side.  The last one was a hard one for me to realize, untill it hit me that I was bashing dominant aspects of my own personality.

< Message edited by SylphandJflynn -- 3/12/2007 9:30:18 AM >

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/12/2007 1:17:02 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Without men who would I have to shake my head in wonder and laugh at every day at work? 

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/12/2007 1:18:37 PM   
MissyRane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Without men who would I have to shake my head in wonder and laugh at every day at work? 


Straight from my heart!
awww I can't help but loving them

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RE: Are Men Necessary?? - 3/12/2007 1:20:22 PM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Without men who would I have to shake my head in wonder and laugh at every day at work? 


Straight from my heart!
awww I can't help but loving them


Love??? Let's not get too carried away now.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MissyRane)
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