Trust but verify.

Trust but verify. (Full Version)

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FukinTroll -> Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:28:35 AM)
Understanding the importance of trust in any relationship I wanted to open this topic for discussion. We often hear that he/she doesn’t trust me because of _____ or _____ and ______. I think blind trust is the armor of fools, which brings me to trust and verify. I can give trust, however I want to verify that trust. I do this by be attentive to words, actions, reactions and deeds. The sabotage thread gave me a lot to think about and reflect on this concept. I had to weigh if I was distrusting and just waiting to be proven justified in distrust or if I was trusting and waiting for verification of that trust. It brought me to the conclusion, after watching my own (bizarre) behavior on the boards and how I assimilate data of other posters that I do trust and verify. I do not automatically react to post, I tend to study them and look for consistencies and inconsistencies. I use this as a tool to understand the person on the other side of the screen, not just a potential partner, but just about everyone. I get a feel for who they are through their posts, or their alts posts once they come into light. When a D is wanting passwords, chat logs, or other information s tend to balk and feel they aren’t being trusted. Is it a matter of distrust and looking for the fatal flaw or is it a matter of trust and verify. In this medium all we really have is what the online persona presents to us. For all the members of this community is it about trust and verify or are you distrusting and searching for failure?

IrishMist -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:34:33 AM)
Hmmm..I am the kind of person who just trusts until she finds that her trust was misplaced...I guess that would be under your idea of trust but verify trust. /shrug

angelic -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:36:12 AM)
Unfortunately for me i trust few and will look for failure. i really do hope this is just a passing thing, because i really liked me when i trusted first...it sure was a lot easier. you know, while i am typing this i am thinking about all the energy i put into not trusting. wow

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:36:56 AM)
For me, it's about trust and verify. This is a part of being "transparent" for me...in order to really share, you have to be open to a certain amount of transparency in your life. I have layers of transparency, as do many. Master Fire

MagiksSlave -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:37:14 AM)
if you truely trust someone then you shouldnt need to see logs period. If I tell Master this is what happend he beleaves me.. I resently had a situation where someone said something to Master about contents of e-mails and such.. he came to me and asked about them.. I told him the trueth which was this other person was full of it and just looking to cause trouble. He didnt even ask to see the e-mails he truested me and the subject was as good as over we havent talked of it since I had and still have the e-mails and could have showed him.. in fact I did read him a few but not because he asked and not till way after he let it drop I did it because something upset me and I wanted to run it by him..; if he had asked to see them I would have shown them no problem but I would have felt a little like he didnt trust me over someone who is really nothing more then a strainger to us both. If he didnt trust me I would have to relook the relationship.. neather of us have ever lied to eachother becaise trust is so importent to us both so there is and should be blind trust there because there is no reason eater of us shouldnt just take what the other says as the truth.... The only thing I would ever insist on seeing and showing is STD test because even if he says he is clean and I said I was we would trust what eachother says but one of us may not know if we had something and there for while still telling the truth for as far as we know it could still be dangerouse.. so that really has nothing to do with trust and everything to do with beeing carefull Magik's slave

FukinTroll -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:38:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic Unfortunately for me i trust few and will look for failure. i really do hope this is just a passing thing, because i really liked me when i trusted first...it sure was a lot easier. you know, while i am typing this i am thinking about all the energy i put into not trusting. wow Glad to help! Slurp! P.S. Very powerful bit there on the end.

Llyren -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:43:27 AM)
Perhaps this is a bit contradictory, but I tend to be more trusting the less it matters. I tend to take at face value the people I've encountered here, and have shrugged and chalked it to experience when I've been mistaken. But I never let myself get emotionally involved until I'm sure, and I can verify. Even then, I've yet to meet the person who could get me to open up completely. [sm=preen.gif]

MagiksSlave -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:45:53 AM)
The more I think of this the less it makes sence it seems to me that trust but varify is an oxymoron.. isnt one of the aspect of trust not NEEDING to varify?? Just a thought Magik's slave

LaTigresse -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:49:54 AM)
Happy Monday Mr.Troll! My off the cuff answer would be to say, gut instinct. But that is just not the case, or at least it is way over simplified. There are some people that I immediately would give personal information because I have in some way processed that they are trustworthy. The awsome Trio being several people that I immediately felt that way about on here. Then there are others that I know without a shadow of doubt I would never do so. I think that on some subconscious level I retain a feel of a person's intent in their words. How they respond to others, most importantly how they convey themselves. If a person comes across with intelligence and humour, especially a confident self depreciating humour, I pay more attention to them. I watch how they react to pressure. It sounds corny but I admire honorable behaviour. I strive for it myself therefor seek it in others. Someone that seems to easily accept, they fucked up, they are not perfect. Another very important thing I watch for is how they speak of others, past loves, friends, either present or non. Even more importantly how they speak of those they do not care for, admire or like. When a person is putting on a false persona they tend to be harder to read, very one dimensional. I generally do not have any interest in them and tend to not even notice their existence. If they do manage to catch my eye, I watch for consistancy. I begin to mentally catalogue details, watching for discrepancies. Quite often I will not even bother calling them on it, just watch them dig themselves in deeper. They are generally the very same people that want immediate results and self destruct fairly quickly. Unfortunately those same people tend to reinvent themselves to try again and again. Usually very obviously. Then there are quite a few that I feel are portraying themselves fairly honestly but I sense some sort of instability that I will not allow into my life and therefore them either. It does not necessarily make them a bad person, just not someone I want around me and mine.

Llyren -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:50:15 AM)
Yes and no. For example, while you would trust that a friend who borrowed your car had filled the tank, wouldn't you still check before going on a long drive in the middle of the night? Online we don't have the luxury of knowing people face to face, but even then, how many people end up horribly hurt and betrayed by people they have known intimately. Look at the women who find out their husbands are actually serial killers, and they have no idea. I can trust that Troll is a hot guy in leather pants, but before I send him notes pledging my undying service, I'm going to want to actually -see- him in.. or out.. of the leather pants. But he'll have to keep the spiffy boots on in either case. [sm=preen.gif]

FukinTroll -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:51:27 AM)
If I told you that 145 X 62 = 8990 would you take my word for it?

angelic -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:52:02 AM)
i think i will pay close attention to this thread. Btw, thank you Troll. Amazing how something suddenly becomes clear at the muddiest times. ~Slurps ya right back, only lower~ [8D]

Llyren -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:54:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll If I told you that 145 X 62 = 8990 would you take my word for it? Nope. Even though you are right.

MagiksSlave -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:55:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll If I told you that 145 X 62 = 8990 would you take my word for it? I have no reason to trust or distrust you if I really wanted to know what the answer to that was Id probubly double check but ones you claim to be someones Dom or sub there better be enough trust there that the calculator wouldnt be needed, if you get my point Magik's slave

FukinTroll -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:55:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Llyren Yes and no. For example, while you would trust that a friend who borrowed your car had filled the tank, wouldn't you still check before going on a long drive in the middle of the night? Online we don't have the luxury of knowing people face to face, but even then, how many people end up horribly hurt and betrayed by people they have known intimately. Look at the women who find out their husbands are actually serial killers, and they have no idea. I can trust that Troll is a hot guy in leather pants, but before I send him notes pledging my undying service, I'm going to want to actually -see- him in.. or out.. of the leather pants. But he'll have to keep the spiffy boots on in either case. [sm=preen.gif] I have even more spiffy boots now. Slurp!

gypsygrl -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:57:20 AM)
A lot of people confuse trust and faith. Trust is experiential, and based on what you're calling "verification." Faith, however, is not subject to empircle proof. The problem is trust, in any meaningful sense, depends on faith. Experience can never prove about what's going to happen in the future. Logically, principles of verification only refer to the past. So, no matter how many chat logs you've looked at, or e-mail accounts you have access too and have perused, there's nothing to garuntee that the person is going to be trustworthy tomorrow. (This is basically Hume's problem of induction, for those of you who are philosophers) Also, a positive can't be proved. It can only be disproved. Just because you have no evidence that a person isn't trustworthy doesn't mean they are trustworthy. It just means you haven't come accross any evidence saying they have broken trust. Its much easier to show experienctially that someone hasn't been trustworthy than to show that they are trustworthy. So, when you get right down to it, it all comes down to a leap of faith.

FukinTroll -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:57:26 AM)
LaT I think your post is going to resonate with a lot of people here.

IrishMist -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 11:58:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave The more I think of this the less it makes sence it seems to me that trust but varify is an oxymoron.. isnt one of the aspect of trust not NEEDING to varify?? Just a thought Magik's slave Not necessarily Magik. If you think about it, how did your partner come to the point that he no longer needs to check on logs and such with you? Are you going to say that it happened right from the beginning?

Vendaval -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:00:16 PM)
A prospective sub/slave should have no problem turning over most information, unless they have something to hide. My boys share correspondence and communication with me. Trust is not a given, it has to be earned. I observe a person very carefully in their interactions with me and with others. If something is not right, I investigate the matter. In my own life experience, people who complain about not being trusted during the beginning stages of getting to know someone are dishonest and misrepresenting themselves. quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll When a D is wanting passwords, chat logs, or other information s tend to balk and feel they aren’t being trusted. Is it a matter of distrust and looking for the fatal flaw or is it a matter of trust and verify. In this medium all we really have is what the online persona presents to us. For all the members of this community is it about trust and verify or are you distrusting and searching for failure?

juliaoceania -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:04:53 PM)
There are levels of trust, FT. Just when I think I completely trust, some issue from my past gets brushed up against and I have a mini trust meltdown. Now, it is how I choose to react to this that gives trust a chance to grow or not. I have not lived with a man since my exhubby and I split when my almost grown UM was an infant. As we get closer to making that sort of commitment (residing together), issues of trust from my marriage come out in unexpected ways... but I am aware of it, and the awareness of it is what makes this something that I can overcome and even help our relationship flourish. I do trust him, but that trust is exactly what causes me to flash back on when a previous trust was betrayed. It is not about his behavior, it is all about me as to why I sometimes have become distrustful. He does not read my emails. I have remained logged in on his computer for CM, this to me is my open invitation to check out my account if he wants. I have nothing to hide after all. He could read my emails anytime he pleases as far as I am concerned. He has not shown the desire to. I do get emails on here I do not feel like dealing with, and he is more than happy to help me determine how I should respond or if I should respond or if he is going to respond to these emails. Sometimes I have simply told someone to ask him the inappropriate questions they have for me. I am required to be polite to all the email me or to not respond at all... or he can respond to them if he wants.

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