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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/13/2007 10:37:15 AM

calamitysandra

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8$ per US gallon in Germany at the moment.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/13/2007 10:46:25 AM

farglebargle

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That's a shame. If the US had put the money wasted in Iraq to good use, we could have given you a beamed microwave ground station, and driven that price down to .50/litre if less.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/13/2007 11:26:24 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

OK, I'll bite. What exactly does "supply is down" mean? Supply of what exactly?

Supply of petroleum distillates readily avaliable for disturbution to consummers.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/13/2007 7:42:38 PM

Lordandmaster

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Good!

OK. Why is the supply down?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

OK, I'll bite. What exactly does "supply is down" mean? Supply of what exactly?

Supply of petroleum distillates readily avaliable for disturbution to consummers.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/13/2007 7:47:17 PM

Misstoyou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

OK. Why is the supply down?

For what it's worth, CNN said that a lot of refineries have been taken off-line for upgrading and maintenance, and that resulted in reduced supply.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/13/2007 8:43:37 PM

fergus

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They are always saying that.

Last year when the prices were WAY up - people had enough and actually started to drive less and drive better.

We are so fucking spoiled in this country that we will bitch but not sacrifice.

Want prices to come down? Reduce demand. Stop buying their product. For that, you will have to drive less and drive better. Car pool more, combine trips. Maybe take a job closer to home, maybe become aquanited with public transportation.

And for each possible solution I may list, someone who only wants to bitch will have only more excuses as to why tehy can't possibly cut back on driving.

Yet, somehow, last fall, enough of us did it to reduce demand, and THAT was why prices fell.

For those that are not short-sighted, with short memories, you may remember the last gas spike - they had no real stated reason, and they actually started to say "hey, it's a company and we're turning profit for our stock holders". Finally, when prices started to come down again - the reported reason was because we ACTUALLY started to conserve!

*sigh* didn't last long.

Hopefully enough will remember JUST LAST FALL and start conserving again.

fergus

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/13/2007 8:56:30 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

OK. Why is the supply down?

For what it's worth, CNN said that a lot of refineries have been taken off-line for upgrading and maintenance, and that resulted in reduced supply.

Gas Companies a year or two ago testified before congress that they were slowing production and driving prices up so they could have the same record profits this year that they have had the last 6 years.

Sinergy

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 12:02:25 AM

ExtremeMP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

When a grocery store is notified a week ahead of time by it’s beer and wine distributor that the price of Coors Light by the case or 12 pack is moving up 60 cents a unit, I know of no one in the business who immediately runs back into their walk-in cooler to raise their prices in order to gain the extra revenue for the future delivery. Everyone in the business has working capital and the profits are always made/taken on the backside. If the cost of inventory goes up, it’s absorbed until the profits are taken on the back.

Had to jump in on this part. As one who used to work for the largest brewer in this country and having tossed literally thousands of cases/kegs of beer this is simply not true! Everytime there was an increase by either taxes or the distributor, almost all stores I delivered to would immediately raise their prices in advance. Not only that they would almost always buy as much beforehand as they had the ability to do so in order to later sell it at the marked up price.

How do I know? I used to be the one who had to pull out all the old stock, then remark it with the new prices before bringing the new delivery also marked at the new price. Got a torn rotator cuff after hauling over 1500 cases into and rotating another 2000 in one store alone one New Years eve. They bought up all we could give them for a week straight before the new tax went into effect.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 3:32:17 AM

cuddleheart50

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2.58 a gallon last night.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 7:02:24 AM

Marc2b

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There could be any number of reasons at any given time as to why supply is down. To name just a few:

* OPEC restricting production in order to drive up prices.

* Oil companies withholding distribution in order to drive up prices (that’s the one you’re looking for, right?)

* Lack of sufficient number of refineries (usually due to excessive environmental regulations).

* Lack of domestic production (also usually due to excessive environmental regulations).

* Natural disaster interrupting transport (e.g. Hurricane Katrina)

* Sudden increase in demand (e.g. an excessively cold winter).

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 12:08:41 PM

Lordandmaster

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Oh please. OPEC doesn't restrict production of refined petroleum. You don't even seem to understand how gasoline arrives at the pump. "Sudden increase in demand because of an excessively cold winter"??? This has been one of the warmest winters on record. The second-warmest in history, if I'm not mistaken. Besides, a cold winter would increase demand for HEATING OIL and NATURAL GAS, not petroleum refined for automobiles. And demand doesn't exactly affect supply, either, but let's not get into details...

Anyway...supply isn't even "down." It's LOW. Not down, because it was even lower last year. And why is it low? Because oil companies have no incentive to upgrade their refining capability. All that would do is drive prices down. It would be the equivalent of a nice fat subsidy, since THEY would shoulder the burden of adding new refineries or upgrading existing ones.

They've admitted all this, as Sinergy pointed out. (Environmental regulation doesn't have fuck-all to do with it.) If there were a TRUE FREE MARKET, they couldn't get away with cornering the supply by sitting on refineries. But they get away with it. Why? Because the government doesn't force them to do otherwise.

Now ask yourself why the government doesn't force them to do otherwise. Then MAYBE you'll start to understand how oil works.

Ahh, but I thought it was all simple economics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

* OPEC restricting production in order to drive up prices.

* Oil companies withholding distribution in order to drive up prices (that’s the one you’re looking for, right?)

* Lack of sufficient number of refineries (usually due to excessive environmental regulations).

* Lack of domestic production (also usually due to excessive environmental regulations).

* Natural disaster interrupting transport (e.g. Hurricane Katrina)

* Sudden increase in demand (e.g. an excessively cold winter).

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 1:12:32 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Why is it that when gas goes down it creeps down at a very slow pace, but when it starts to increase in price it's two to three times faster?

OK I'll answer that question directly
You have a 30,000 gallon tank priced currently at 2.00 a gallon, and you get word on Monday that Friday when you refill your tanks the price will be not 2.00 but 2.10
That means to refill your tank on Friday you need not $60,000 but rather $63,000 when are you going to raise your pump price Friday or Monday?
The price moves down slower because during the time between Friday the 1st and monday the 4th the retailer has lost opportunity to charge the replacement cost of his stock. Thus they make it up on the back side.

I guess my other question for you to a much lesser degree would be: Why do you suppose when a handful of average, hardworking American people speak to the wonderment /bitch about the possibility of being gouged, why does a small handful of folks always run in and parrot propaganda from the corporate media that seems to justify such bogus prices?

Because the answer given fits into the basic outline of what I know to be factual and logical. Supply and demand is factual and logical

- R

yeh sort of like pre-emptive pricing.

If you know the price is going to go up you charge right away so that you can sell the gas you bought at 2bucks per at 2.1 per.

Then when the price drops you wait till the gas you bought at 2.1 is empty and you are refilled at 2 per, one full then slowly drop the price down to 2 again just in case it goes up again! LOL

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 1:55:01 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

Oh please. OPEC doesn't restrict production of refined petroleum.

But they can restrict the production of crude which is what refined petroleum is made out of. Less crude, less refined petroleum.

quote:

You don't even seem to understand how gasoline arrives at the pump.

I understand it better than you. I guarantee you that. From almost every post of your I have ever read it is obvious that you have no understanding of the science of economics.

quote:

"Sudden increase in demand because of an excessively cold winter"??? This has been one of the warmest winters on record.

I was sighting an example. I didn’t say this winter specifically.

quote:

Besides, a cold winter would increase demand for HEATING OIL and NATURAL GAS, not petroleum refined for automobiles.

Heating oil and refined petroleum are both made from crude oil. More of one means less of the other. Economics is the study of scarce resources with alternative uses. And scarce doesn’t mean what you think it means in this context. It means any resource with a finite supply at any given moment (which pretty much means all resources).

quote:

And demand doesn't exactly affect supply, either, but let's not get into details...

It most certainly does. When demand is high and supply low, the suppliers (and potential suppliers -- AKA entrepreneurs) look for ways to increase supply in order to meet the demand.

quote:

Anyway...supply isn't even "down." It's LOW. Not down, because it was even lower last year.

You’re nitpicking on words so I will attempt to clarify what I meant by "down" – "supply is not meeting demand."

quote:

oil companies have no incentive to upgrade their refining capability

Actually, they have a disincentive. There have been several attempts to build new refineries but excessive environmental regulation and political interference (i.e. politicians looking to score votes with certain voting blocks) make the costs prohibitive.

quote:

All that would do is drive prices down.

Low prices aren’t necessarily a bad thing for any company if they sell at volume.

quote:

(Environmental regulation doesn't have fuck-all to do with it.)

If you truly believe that then you are ignorant beyond my ability to help you.

quote:

If there were a TRUE FREE MARKET, they couldn't get away with cornering the supply by sitting on refineries. But they get away with it. Why? Because the government doesn't force them to do otherwise.

If there were a true free market a lot a things would be better, but that’s a different debate. Anyway, the government can’t force reality to be other than it is. If prices don’t exceed costs there will be no profit. No profit means no oil, no computers, no toilette paper, no cars, no health care, no pencils, no... you get the idea (I hope).

quote:

Ahh, but I thought it was all simple economics.

You are confusing economics with political and social agendas.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 3:43:26 PM

Jack45

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Gas prices were once so cheap but our government chose Israel over the Arabs and Moslems so in 1973-4 there was the oil embargo and the old man had to have me sit in car on alternate days, odds and evens depending on your license plate last digit. Gas jumped that time and never went back down. Now you can see the result from the BS invasion of Iraq. Same deal and the taxpayers bear the burden, thanks lobbyists.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 3:46:51 PM

Lordandmaster

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I'm going to end this here, because it's tiresome, but I'll point out why this statement is blessedly uninformed. Have you heard of the concept of demand elasticity? Go look it up, if you haven't. If you're talking about inelastic goods (and petroleum is an inelastic good), what you've said is false. You might learn a thing or two about the California energy crisis, by the way, if you discover why prices for electricity were supposed to be controlled. That has to do with demand elasticity too.

Of course, I'm the one who doesn't understand a thing about the science of economics. Amusing. Last time I was an ideologue. Don't I get to be an ideologue this time too? This time I'm just an ignoramus.

Bye bye.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

All that would do is drive prices down.

Low prices aren’t necessarily a bad thing for any company if they sell at volume.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 3:47:48 PM

ncmaster75

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They stole Afganistan and Iraq's oil resources and then hiked up gas prices. Propaganda must be working!

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 4:36:57 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

Paid 2.89 this morning for the cheap stuff and I'm a little north of San Diego proper. it's 3.00 for the cheap stuff there.

That's fucked up.

I was under the impression that oil prices were the predominant factor in gasoline pricing...with some minor variation.

When oil was approaching 70 bucks...we hit $2.71 national (Midwest was always 40 cents less....east and west always 20 cents higher). We're at plus/minus $60.00 a barrel....and we're hitting $2.67 national.

I've never been one for a national day of banning Shell/Mobil/Chevron...etc....I've always believed in corporate profits...

But seriously...something's fucked up here.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 4:39:00 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fergus

They are always saying that.

Last year when the prices were WAY up - people had enough and actually started to drive less and drive better.

We are so fucking spoiled in this country that we will bitch but not sacrifice.

Want prices to come down? Reduce demand. Stop buying their product. For that, you will have to drive less and drive better. Car pool more, combine trips. Maybe take a job closer to home, maybe become aquanited with public transportation.

And for each possible solution I may list, someone who only wants to bitch will have only more excuses as to why tehy can't possibly cut back on driving.

Yet, somehow, last fall, enough of us did it to reduce demand, and THAT was why prices fell.

For those that are not short-sighted, with short memories, you may remember the last gas spike - they had no real stated reason, and they actually started to say "hey, it's a company and we're turning profit for our stock holders". Finally, when prices started to come down again - the reported reason was because we ACTUALLY started to conserve!

*sigh* didn't last long.

Hopefully enough will remember JUST LAST FALL and start conserving again.

fergus

The point was made at best, erratic...but somewhat well.

Cut demand...price will follow.

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 4:59:38 PM

lonlyrossInNeed

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Well i think untill some of US and i say US Becouse ia m one for the enviorment
well untill some of us stop arguing and alow for more oil drilling in the U.S
gas prices with stay between 2.20 -to 2.60
and in some states will rise higher and higher and some lower
but hey today
i pumped gas for .87 cents a gallon some may say how
well in Cleveland theres a grocery chains called Giant Eagle and they have there own gas sations
and for every 50 dollars spend you get .10 cents of a gallon
so i had up to 1.90 off a gallon and i used it filled my Jeep up with a bunch of 5 gallon gas cans and then filled them and the gas tank now i just wonder where i can sell them for anyone in cleveland want gas i go tit ill sell 5 gallon cans for 18 dollars plus a 4 dollars deposit on the gas can ;)

ross.g

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RE: "Gas prices rise to average of $2.55 a gallon&... - 3/14/2007 5:00:42 PM

Griswold

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I hate to say it folks....being a lifelong Republican (God help me) but....Bush is an oil man.

Do the math.

He came in...(an oil man) oil went up.

You won't see 25 dollar oil again if you elect Democrats, solely because Bush has proven that the world is just peachy with 60 dollar oil...ergo...45 dollar oil is just peachy.

You can have 45 dollar oil again (but not 25).

Along with that, electing Democrats, you can have freeways and local roads built with 75 dollar an hour labour (Federal Davis Bacon act), you can have trucking that costs 9 cents a mile instead of 6 cents (union labor gaining a foothold under Democrats) which means your cabbage will cost $1.37 per each instead of $0.89 each, but all in all....as a lifelong Republican....I'd be good with Bush...and his practices...gone.

Democrats...they're just as corrupt as the fucking Republicans.

The world has now become aware, thanks to Mr. Bush that 60 PLUS dollar oil is affordable...more importantly...agreeable.

You agreed.

It's time to put the SUV's in the garage, relegate them to history, start paying extra (yes, it will hurt) to put solar panels on your roofs, drive a little less as the previous commentator mentioned, turn your heat down a smidge, wear a sweater as so many lambasted Carter for, buy 2 loaves of bread when one would suffice, stock up on soup, cheese, and Koolaid (all these things will decrease your trips to the store), and take the snow chains (and all that other shit you're carrying in your back seat and trunk) out of your car in March and put them in again in November....'cause...you're carrying around the equivalent of a 275 pound man in your car every year, 12 months out of the year, every day...

(And that's eating up easily 8% or more of your gas mileage).

You can change this. Complaining isn't going to make it go away.

Commit to change.

Allow me to just add....Bush II will be the first President to leave office who, within 3 years will have a net worth of over 200 million dollars, and his speeches will command (from oil based companies) around 5 mill a pop.

Mark this one.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 3/14/2007 5:19:25 PM >

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