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RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 8:24:45 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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I understand it was a first meet - but there is just something that sits uncomfortable with me on all the statements the OP made. She admits he really was under the impression she would comply, even when she said she would not. In that case - why the fuck go? It makes no sense to me. Ok, so we can all(mostly) agree he was an silly ass for expecting it on a first meet - but that doesn't excuse her from going to 'prove' her point. If he was that insistant and that bad a dominant, and the red flags were already up - you have to take responsibility for yourself.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to amuzingtoyou)

Post #: 101

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 10:08:44 AM

SirDiscipliner69

Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirlHave you noticed that most of the submissives that have said that it is inappropriate for a Dom to give directions to a sub that doesn't belong to him.....are in functioning relationships?

Then the point would be mute correct and not an issue ?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 102

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 10:16:30 AM

SirDiscipliner69

Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amuzingtoyou

Sir Discipliner,

We are talking about a first meet here. I personally do not submit to someone i do not know. That is the way i choose to handle my life. As many other submissives on here have said, it is not expected to submit to someone you don't know. I do think the OP should have told him straight out that she wasn't going to comply with him. One important thing to remember is that there are all different kinds of submissives and doms out there. So if you want a girl who is going to go braless and pantiless for you on a first meet, i am sure you can find that. But i see nothing wrong with a girl saying that she is not willing to do that on a first meet. I don't think it makes someone anyless submissive. Anyone can call themselves a dominant. If that was a rule of a prospective dominant, then he wouldn't be the one for me, and Im perfectly fine with that.

I am also talking about a first meeting also...In public...

It would seem that if one were meeting someone there should be enough chemistry either mentally or physically for them to spur an introduction face to face.

The reason the are meeting is to know more about the person or the common interest.

With intentions agreed to there should have been prior communication for what ever reason a submissive would not comply.

This also goes for no shows that do not have the social graces to call a dominant that talked to them minutes before...it happened to Me ...

Yes I have found many women that are intrigued enough to show up dressed as I requested.

And there were others that did not but I silently made notes of what they were thinking of getting away with..mostly vanillias with a spot of kink...

I am not saying this needs to be done to be a "real" submissive or a "real" dominant but if something is not broached or conveyed on first meeting and it was agreed on before hand it does not give a whole lot of crediance to the submissive's argument now does it?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to amuzingtoyou)

Post #: 103

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 10:18:42 AM

SirDiscipliner69

Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

I have requested something as simple as a red rose or flower to be worn.

submission is submission

disobedience, noncompliance is not

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 104

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 10:37:33 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirlHave you noticed that most of the submissives that have said that it is inappropriate for a Dom to give directions to a sub that doesn't belong to him.....are in functioning relationships?

Then the point would be mute correct and not an issue ?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

Moot- and no. It means that there seems to be a clear positive correllation between people who know when to set boundaries and when to agree on handing over authority and being in functional relationships.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)

Post #: 105

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 10:42:19 AM

SirDiscipliner69

Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Moot- and no. It means that there seems to be a clear positive correllation between people who know when to set boundaries and when to agree on handing over authority and being in functional relationships.

Mute to the point of being gagged.

Clear and positive...no I do not believe so.

There are many who THINK they know but actually do not when defining what they want.

There are many that TPE and do not have ongoing relationships.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 106

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 10:55:18 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Stop trying to sound cool, you're only proving yourself foolish in this instance.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)

Post #: 107

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 10:58:21 AM

SirDiscipliner69

Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Stop trying to sound cool, you're only proving yourself foolish in this instance.

And you are an authority on looking foolish I suppose?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_454930/mpage_1/key_foolish/tm.htm#454980

http://www.collarchat.com/m_875491/mpage_7/key_foolish/tm.htm#883370

http://www.collarchat.com/m_165641/mpage_3/key_foolish/tm.htm#166570

http://www.collarchat.com/m_731813/mpage_2/key_foolish/tm.htm#737204

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 108

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 11:13:57 AM

amuzingtoyou

Posts: 144
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline

Sir Discipliner,

I don't believe in lengthy o/l discussions. I have no fear meeting people after talking to them a couple times. I personally believe that its best to meet people face to face before i even consider them as a dominant. This is my belief. So often there is not already be chemistry. I used to meet people as sloshes and munches, and also would meet them for coffee. My personal opinion is that asking someone you hardly know to wear no panties and no bra to a first meeting is ridiculous and doesn't show how submissive they are. But i do make this known if it is requested of me. I don't blast them, I just simply say im sorry im not going to do that. If they push further i will explain to them why not. If that doesn't work for them, then there really is no reason to pursue anything. Why would i follow directions from someone im not even sure i want to submit to? I remember I had a meeting arranged a few years ago, and the dominant had asked me to meet him wearing no panties and no bra. I asked him why. He told me, it was for easy access for him to my private areas. I just told him..well thats not likely to happen. So he had an expectation of getting into my pants before we even met. After i made it clear that wasn't going ot happen..he no longer wanted to meet me..
Again fine by me.

< Message edited by amuzingtoyou -- 3/28/2007 11:16:14 AM >

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)

Post #: 109

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 11:39:51 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amuzingtoyou

Sir Discipliner,

I don't believe in lengthy o/l discussions. I have no fear meeting people after talking to them a couple times. I personally believe that its best to meet people face to face before i even consider them as a dominant. This is my belief. So often there is not already be chemistry. I used to meet people as sloshes and munches, and also would meet them for coffee. My personal opinion is that asking someone you hardly know to wear no panties and no bra to a first meeting is ridiculous and doesn't show how submissive they are. But i do make this known if it is requested of me. I don't blast them, I just simply say im sorry im not going to do that. If they push further i will explain to them why not. If that doesn't work for them, then there really is no reason to pursue anything. Why would i follow directions from someone im not even sure i want to submit to? I remember I had a meeting arranged a few years ago, and the dominant had asked me to meet him wearing no panties and no bra. I asked him why. He told me, it was for easy access for him to my private areas. I just told him..well thats not likely to happen. So he had an expectation of getting into my pants before we even met. After i made it clear that wasn't going ot happen..he no longer wanted to meet me..
Again fine by me.

But the OP went along, even though she has stated she knew he thought she would comply. And that just doesn't sit comfortable with me. Maybe they both didnt communicate well - although by the sounds she was aware more than he was. I just don't dig the whole 'he was a bad dominant for insisting on a first date' attitude.

quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

No i made it clear to him he just didn't believe I would refuse to ignore his orders.

If she knew how he felt or what he 'believed' why go in the first place?

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to amuzingtoyou)

Post #: 110

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 11:55:02 AM

DarkDreams123

Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

Let me weigh in with my two cents.

What does it mean to be involved in a D/s relationship with some sort of power exchange, only to object to having to comply with a Dominant's request?

I agree with what CuriouslySeeking says: you either obey or you don't, there is no half way.

His request was not "out of line" as some here have been saying. He wasn't asking her to give over the title to her house or hand over her bank account.

Some of you have also been saying that this request was out of line on the first meet: that he had no right to ask anything of her because she was not yet "his".

This is also wide of the mark. She does not owe her obedience to just anyone, true. However, he was not just "anyone". She was actively communicating with him as a prospective partner and had reached the point of agreeing to meet him in person. As a prospective partner, why shouldn't he begin asking her to comply with his wishes. Where is the "magic line" where she begins to comply: the first date, the second, the 99th?

Now I am not advocating that she is supposed to give up total obedience to someone on the first meet. That would be ridiculous. But it has to start somewhere.

I also have to echo those here who have said that she did not communicate her "hard limits" well. Perhaps, Patina, you did not know that going bra-less in public was a hard limit. But once he asked it of you, you should have told him that it was. Once he told you that he would not respect that limit, you should have broken off the relationship. I agree with the others here who have said that to go ahead with the meet and not to comply with his wishes was foolish.

I wish you well on your search, Patina. I hope that you have a better experience next time.

For those of you who are so quick to castigate this guy, just remember one thing: you are only hearing one side of this story. We do not know what was in his mind nor what he understood of what Patina told him.

-DarkDreams

(in reply to patina)

Post #: 111

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 11:59:42 AM

amuzingtoyou

Posts: 144
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline

darkinshadows,

i agree with you. The OP did not do a very good job communicating in this instance. And has painted the dominant in a very bad light. She did agree to meet him knowing what he expected of her. She said she didn't feel comfy with his request but did not out right tell him she wasn't going to comply. So he fully expected her to fufill his request. Really what we have here is a failure to communicate and unfufilled expectations. I do wonder why it is so hard for submissves to simply say what is on their minds?

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 112

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 12:32:13 PM

amuzingtoyou

Posts: 144
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline

Dark Dreams,
I disagree with you on one point. Just because someone is interested in someone as a prospective partner does not mean they are ready to submit to them. When i was looking for a partner, i would meet alot of people. Perhaps i didn't do things the way alot of people o/l do. I would talk to someone locally a couple times and then meet them. So the idea that i would start submitting to everyone i met is a bit ridiculous. I think it is an individual choice. There is no set rules about when to cross that line. I know it when i feel it. As to when the submission begins? Well in my experience it is something that is discussed and outlined and arrangements are made.

missi

(in reply to DarkDreams123)

Post #: 113

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 1:19:20 PM

DarkDreams123

Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

Hi AmuzingToYou,

As you say, there is no "rule book" here.

Unlike you, I spend more time exchanging e-mail with prospective partners before I meet with them in person. I would rather try to screen out prospective partners as early as possible. Different strokes...

But this isn't really the issue. One of the points I was trying to make is that some of the posters were attacking this Dom for making a request on their first meet, as though for a Dom to make a request on the first meet was out of line, in perpetuum.

As you say, these things are up for negotiation.

Now, a question for you, are you playing "hookey" from work like I am? How do you manage to be online during the working day?

-DarkDreams

(in reply to amuzingtoyou)

Post #: 114

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 1:37:05 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

I don't think its out of line to request the whole braless thing. I don't think that requests and orders begin the minute that the submissive officially belongs to the dominant, rather I think of it all as much more of a seduction that just unfolds naturally (or doesn't unfold).

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to DarkDreams123)

Post #: 115

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 6:07:26 PM

adanaydi

Posts: 36
Joined: 10/12/2006
Status: offline

this one can look at a request of a prospective Master another way also... didn't matter what he might of requested, within reason... in this case a braless and pantiless slave was what he wanted... no biggie.

He's taking a chance meeting you the first time, and offering to assess or take you under consideration... the very least you could do is offer something in return as a bit of "good faith".

If you're gonna balk now at something as simple as a bra, what you gonna balk at later? serving him orally, because it puts a kink in your neck? Or how about not rubbing his feet because it makes your hands tired?

in her humble offering of an opinion, this one picks her "battles"... a bra is nothing, ones bank account or income.... well that takes a hell of a lot more trust to give. Had He asked for a say ten dollar tribute in good faith to help pay for the meal, would you balk at that also?
All he was looking for in the small request was just that... seeing just how willing you were to give in to something that was probably small in his eyes, to see how you would handle things in the future.

ada

_____________________________

ownerless, a girl prays enslavement, where she will find the freedom to soar to the skies on wings spread wide... only to willingly return to His Hand. adanaydi 2007

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 116

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 6:25:19 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirlHave you noticed that most of the submissives that have said that it is inappropriate for a Dom to give directions to a sub that doesn't belong to him.....are in functioning relationships?

Then the point would be mute correct and not an issue ?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

Moot- and no. It means that there seems to be a clear positive correllation between people who know when to set boundaries and when to agree on handing over authority and being in functional relationships.

I knew someone would get it.

It's like taking marriage advice from Liz Taylor.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 3/28/2007 6:26:00 PM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 117

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 6:35:34 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amuzingtoyou

but did not out right tell him she wasn't going to comply.

She said that did tell him. He just chose not to believe her.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to amuzingtoyou)

Post #: 118

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 6:41:18 PM

amuzingtoyou

Posts: 144
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline

Oside girl...
well i must have missed that part. I thought she just said she was uncomfy with it...

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 119

RE: Doms requiring us to be braless - 3/28/2007 7:01:43 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

He's taking a chance meeting you the first time, and offering to assess or take you under consideration... the very least you could do is offer something in return as a bit of "good faith".

If you're gonna balk now at something as simple as a bra, what you gonna balk at later? serving him orally, because it puts a kink in your neck? Or how about not rubbing his feet because it makes your hands tired?

It’s a first meeting…….. seems to me that showing up is an act of ‘good faith’ and there should be no other expectations. If a dominant requires more than that in the beginning it is not ‘within reason’ at all.
A refusal to obey orders from someone I haven’t even met has no bearing on a potential future D/s relationship.
And I do agree with those who have said that communication should be very clear before, during and after the meeting. It is not a sin to say “I’m not comfortable with that.”
I can’t say it enough times: without discussion and agreement there is no dominance or submission.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to adanaydi)

Post #: 120

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