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RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 7:40:43 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

monkeegirl, who I refer to as strumpet, reminds me of this constantly.


Smart woman!


Yeah, monkey was my father's nickname for me...lol

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 7:44:21 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		And you don't object to sharing a nickname with GWB?!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 7:47:45 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

And you don't object to sharing a nickname with GWB?!


It does me no good to mind

I see Bush as a single cell lifeform... an ameoba perhaps, it would explain the digestive issues I get when I see him and especially when I watch him speak

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 7:54:47 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		How is your way working?
 
Are we getting the kind of leaders we need, that way?
 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:02:38 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		We don't need leaders, we're not sheep. We need ADMINISTRATORS.

It's not called The Leadership. It's called The Administration. For a reason. That's all they should do.

Push Papers.

But it all unravels. Who will get tossed under the bus next? Al Gonzales? Karl Rove? BOTH? And still the 800-Pound-Gorilla of Indictment looms.

I expect the next major swing once Al gets back to Chuck about the whole obstruction-of-justice thing.

http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/pdf/ltr_031507_Gonzales.pdf



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:02:46 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Just once, Rich.. I'd like to see you address the issue instead of doing the 'ol repugnican finger pointing to deflect things away from the current bastard in office.  I think you need to apologize to us for helping put this jerk in office.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:08:39 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

it does not matter what party controls Washington


I rip out my hair whenever folks say that, because who controls Washington matters enormously.

Here are just a few thing to consider:

-- appointment of Supreme Court justices and federal judges
-- environmental policies
-- abortion and family planning
-- stem-cell research
-- fiscal policy
-- Iraq policy
-- consumer protection
-- educational issues

These are merely a handful of quick examples of areas in which the two parties diverge sharply.


And when was the last time Democrats made progress on any of those issues?

Environmental policy? Remember when Jimmy Carter talked about energy independance? That was more than 30 years ago. What has the government done about it since....NOTHING! The Clinton administration never did anything for the environment. And Al Gore spoke the word "conservation" only once the entire 8 year term.

Educational issues? Our schools are a joke and money has nothing to do with it. We spend more money per student than India does, and their teenagers are killing our teens on science and math tests. The curriculums, school boards, and most of the teachers are a complete joke. The culture in our public schools is also pathetic. Bullying is rampant. Sex is everywhere (did you hear about the couple 6th graders having sex during a computer class?). Our schools are completely out of control. And the only solution we hear from Democrats is .... more money. Give me a break.

Abortion? Abortion is never going to be banned in America. That is simply a tool used by the GOP to keep the far-right christian voters loyal.

Fiscal policy? The Democrats just recently approved a $465 billion dollar spending bill. Sure they cut out a bunch of GOP stuff, but they added in their own crap like increasing funds to help HIV victims in Africa.

Iraq? The Dems have been arguing about that in the congress for the past 75 days and have gotten nowhere. Their own party can't even agree on anything. And Nancy Pelosi is now dodging anti-war protesters. I told everyone that was voting in 2006...you think the Dems will pull out of Iraq...no way in hell will they do it. They dont have the balls.

The reality is that the Dems played the left-wing for fools in the last election. The Dems take over congress and do they do anything the voters wanted? Nope. They start all doing their own thing, passing bills to finance their own little pet projects.

This country won't change until the voters figure out that neither political party is honest and concerned about America's interests. One party is just as corrupt as the other... As the old saying goes....the more things change, the more they stay the same.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:17:04 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

We have a long tradition of political cartoons and satire, it is odd that this is seen as ok, as long as one is on Comedy Central... but not if one is a regular person.



Brezinski (Carter's secretary of state) had this to say last night to John Stewart:

"What does the Bush adminstration think muslims are going to do, invade us by swimming the Atlantic ocean?"

Although he did point out shortly afterward (while John Stewart struggled to stop laughing) that perhaps it would
be best if he kept to being an expert on international affairs and left the comedy to John Stewart.

Still cracks me up.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:18:43 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
People get upset when I refer to him as Monkeyboy.  I dont get it.


Probably me you are talking about.
 
It's not that it makes me upset ... more that I think it contributes to the degeneration of what is supposed to be an intelligent process to pick good leaders, based on the issues of the day.
 
We shouldn't be shocked when our election turn on what the "Swift Boat Liars for Truth" have to say, when the general point of view expressed is that it's proper to refer to our leaders as monkeys, and further polarize the two sides in their deep trenches of defense.
 
You are probably a lot smarter than me, and clearly know a lot more about nearly everything (and I really mean that) ... but it's hard for me to understand how you can't see that you are actually contributing to the problem when you act that way.


I was not referring to anybody in particular, caitlyn.  I enjoy your posts even when I dont agree with them.

Regarding intelligence, I own lawn furniture that can beat me playing chess.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:23:17 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Brezinski (Carter's secretary of state) had this to say last night to John Stewart: "What does the Bush adminstration think muslims are going to do, invade us by swimming the Atlantic ocean?"


Lord knows, I'm no fan of George Bush, but embassy bombings, the U.S.S. Cole, and, yes, 9/11 would suggest some other things that our enemies are capable of doing.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:24:10 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

How is your way working?
 
Are we getting the kind of leaders we need, that way?
 

My way works fine for me, I am happy and I have no worries in my personal life. I expect others to take responsibility for themselves, and if they are not happy with their reality they should change it. If they start the draft I will not be the only one to fight them tooth and nail.

I am happier with who is controlling the congress now btw, but I am not "happy" with them, there are few people that I approve of that would have a snowball's chance in Hell of leading this country.. I have no dog in your fight

Here is what I see Caitlyn. You are a moderate, in between Republican and Democrat. You are in a win win situation no matter who is in charge. Your way is one of moderation at this point. You push that moderate "let's get along" agenda. I am not a moderate, I have no intention of "getting along" with certain people.. and I am way ok with this. You are the one that seems shaken by radicals like me, I will never be a moderate, and so it does not matter if I am PC or not in what I say, I am not trying to win over anyone.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 3/15/2007 8:26:05 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:24:22 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		We get exactly the sort of politicians we deserve.  We, and by that I mean most on ALL sides, get what the deserve by having such a shallow understanding of the world, history, and then voting based on their own short term short sighted "best interests" which are often anything but.

I will attack my own "side" first.  The nitwits for peace are just that, peace is a stupid idiotic and empty concept.  Slaves chained to the floor are "at peace".  These are the same idiots that have a "free Tibet" bumper sticker.  Uh, how exactly do you plan on prying Tibet out of the hands of the Chinese?  Asking nicely?  Holding bake sales?  The Chinese will let go of Tibet when someone pries it from their cold dead fingers.  You might as well have a "free the moon from earths selfish gravity" bumper sticker.  Peace is as several people have said, isn't the absence of violence but the presence of justice.  Justice as talked about by the founding fathers, THAT is peace.  It is messy, chaotic, but it is however something worth fighting for and they did, they fought and died for it.  Something at times the left forgets.

Same goes for the idiots chanting we need to get out of Iraq (we do but only because Bush fucked it up too badly to fix) because it is a civil war.  Gee, aren't these the same idiots chanting we need to intervene to stop the genocide in Darfur?  Uh, that is a civil war too folks.  Some intellectual integrity is always welcome and I despise it most when it comes out of my side!

The right has its share of idiots, religious nutcases who would burn gays and stop abortion but put child criminals to death.  Basically a group with more in common with Al Qaeda than Jesus Christ who rejected the old testament people.

Then there are those who think all government is bad and private business is the savior or all in the most black and white terms.  Do you really want private police?  Why do companies go bankrupt if they are so perfect?   I live in a town where our public utility retired a nuclear reactor, ate the debt and STILL offers cheaper power all while subsidizing green energy and efficiency which is a significant portion of WHY the power is cheaper.  Government is a concept as is business, some are better than others, some are worse, looking at them as specific examples rather than with a broad swipe would solve a lot of problems.

Bottom line on BOTH sides is there are people who listen and believe people who will talk about reducing taxes and increasing benefits.  Sorry, no free lunch. 

When people start asking and even demanding better and more in depth answers we will start getting better candidates with more depth.

In the meantime we will impeach presidents over sex and unite to defend one who lied to get us into a war he then proceded to wage as incompetent as any boy king.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:29:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		edited to add, fast reply

The politics of moderation are the politics of mediocrity...

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 3/15/2007 8:30:17 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:33:56 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		You are correct, I'm pretty much a moderate.
 
I want to see the neocons crushed in the next election ... not only from the White House, but crushed from power within the Republican party. I want to see them crushed, because they are wrong on the issues.
 
Your way would destroy that chance, because you will galvanize the right behind the most extreme elements. Attack the right, and you will push them further right. Your way isn't working. It makes people dig in their heals and we get elections decided by who slings mud the best.
 
If that makes you happy ...
 
Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, and I completely respect your right to feel however you want. 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:49:14 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Just once, Rich.. I'd like to see you address the issue instead of doing the 'ol repugnican finger pointing to deflect things away from the current bastard in office.  I think you need to apologize to us for helping put this jerk in office.



       First, Lotus, I played no part whatsoever in electing our current President.  I expected a narrow victory for him in 2000 (never would have guessed it would be that narrow though).  I voted for Nader.

       As an expression of my complete disgust with the conduct of both the Dems and their supporters, I voted for Bush in '04, but since I live in California, that meant squat in the Electoral College.  I think the hatemongers need to apologize to me for forcing that decision on me.

       My disgust with the left continues.  In November '08, I hope to vote (meaningless as it may be) for the candidate I feel will best be able to lead in challenging times.  Failing that, the one I dislike least.  I intend to back Giuliani through the primaries, but my registration will remain 'decline to state.' 

       I like poking fun at Hillary.  Should she win (it's even concievable that I would vote for her), she'll recieve the same respect and support I give our current CIC.  Until then, expect the 'Nixon with a vagina' monologues to continue.

      What issue am I dodging?  That the government doesn't dictate who can and cannot own a home?  That it isn't illegal to be stupid with your credit?  Do you support that kind of government, Lotus? 

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 8:56:11 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		You give me entirely too much power caitlyn. I do not have the power to galvanize anyone because I am not trying to advocate for democrats. I could see your point if I was out there trying to win support for democrats, but I am not. I am just trying to express myself like my forefathers and mothers. I just want to be free to express my displeasure with my government.... no matter what party they come from.

You on the other hand are advocating one political party over another, a political ideology that suits YOU over another one. You do not like "radicals", so you try the scare tactic of "You will take votes away from my side" or "You will drive support to the other side".  My position is, both of your sides suck almost equally. I know it is hard for you to conceive that there may be a third side, but the world is not black and white. I am not going to have either of your sides scare me into abandoning my own. I want to see third parties come up and replace your moderate ones that are raping us economically, sending our jobs overseas, taking our rights, owned by lobbyists. Now you may see me as the problem, I think our entire political culture is the problem.

I wish I was as powerful and as scary and you think I am, but if I were there would not be a choice between dumb and dumber. Just an observation

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 9:03:19 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, I'm using a scare tactic, because I actually want a respectful process that focused on issues.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 9:05:52 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

And when was the last time Democrats made progress on any of those issues



Since you asked...

quote:



Educational issues? Our schools are a joke and money has nothing to do with it. We spend more money per student than India does, and their teenagers are killing our teens on science and math tests. The curriculums, school boards, and most of the teachers are a complete joke. The culture in our public schools is also pathetic. Bullying is rampant. Sex is everywhere (did you hear about the couple 6th graders having sex during a computer class?). Our schools are completely out of control. And the only solution we hear from Democrats is .... more money. Give me a break.



Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter built this countries educational system to be the premier scientific and technological power on the planet.

Name one thing any Republican administration since then has done to foster education and intellectual primacy in this country.

quote:



Abortion? Abortion is never going to be banned in America. That is simply a tool used by the GOP to keep the far-right christian voters loyal.



Is it working?

quote:



Fiscal policy? The Democrats just recently approved a $465 billion dollar spending bill. Sure they cut out a bunch of GOP stuff, but they added in their own crap like increasing funds to help HIV victims in Africa.



I get a sense that you honestly believe the Republicans do a better job.

Monkeyboy and his clowns spend more on our military than all other countries on the planet combined.

quote:



Iraq? The Dems have been arguing about that in the congress for the past 75 days and have gotten nowhere. Their own party can't even agree on anything. And Nancy Pelosi is now dodging anti-war protesters. I told everyone that was voting in 2006...you think the Dems will pull out of Iraq...no way in hell will they do it. They dont have the balls.



Why fight a battle you cannot win?

The Republican refusal to modify their policies is going to shoot them in the head.  Since the Democrats cannot change anything, and voters will in 2008, I completely understand the Democrats not doing much at the moment.

It is sad, but inevitable.

quote:



The reality is that the Dems played the left-wing for fools in the last election. The Dems take over congress and do they do anything the voters wanted? Nope. They start all doing their own thing, passing bills to finance their own little pet projects.



The Democrats have not actually done anything.  We are getting the same CAR nonsense we had for the past 6 years.

The Democrats control congress, determine who sits on committees, etc., but they cannot force bills through like they could in the 1970s.

quote:



This country won't change until the voters figure out that neither political party is honest and concerned about America's interests. One party is just as corrupt as the other... As the old saying goes....the more things change, the more they stay the same.



We could only get rid of a certain percentage of the Republican incompetents in office last election.  Give the liberals a chance, please.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 9:08:24 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Yes, I'm using a scare tactic, because I actually want a respectful process that focused on issues.


No, it is because you want to advocate for your political position and you feel as though my political position will undermine yours. I respect that, but just be honest about it! It will not deter me from my own agenda regardless, but that is exactly what I am advocating for, an America where people feel free to express their views, even views that are not popular with moderate people. That is what brings about creative and positive change for the future.

More voices = More choices... I refuse to be quiet because a few people are afraid of my voice and want to stomp on choice. It is bad enough that the media stomps on anyone that says anything immoderate... i will be damned if they stomp on my freedom to express my ideas in normal every day discourse... can't scare me so easily.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 3/15/2007 9:09:52 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Republican greed and the destruction of America - 3/15/2007 9:16:48 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

This country won't change until the voters figure out that neither political party is honest and concerned about America's interests. One party is just as corrupt as the other... As the old saying goes....the more things change, the more they stay the same.


I agree with all of the above.

But you have to admit that GWB & Co. holds the record for transparency and arrogance.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 40
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