Castration as a remedy to rape

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Gemeni -> Castration as a remedy to rape (4/4/2005 10:34:54 AM)
Somne states in the US are using chemical regimens to control the sex drives of sexual predators as part of the conditions of thier paroles. I think this is a good thing,but it often doesn't go far enough in my opinion. Now this is going to sound a bit Islamic,but do you think actual castration of sexual predators could have a benficial effect in curbing rape-or will it be considered cruel and unusual punishment,if anyone ever tried to get something of this nature enacted into law? Let me state that I think it should ONLY be done in cases where the guilt of the rapist is proven beyond all doubt. (such as positive dna tests coming back, and connecting the man charged to the crime.) Here's an interesting site dealing with the subject: http://hometown.aol.com/USCCCN/castration.index.html And exactly what does cruel and unusual constitute,when this is such a huge problem? I seriously think we need to become more Draconian in dealing with a growing problem..what do you think?

onceburned -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/4/2005 10:58:59 AM)
quote: what do you think I think that rape is an act of violence which uses sex as a weapon. I have not looked into this issue so I welcome hearing of studies, but I don't see why removing a man's testicles will cure his violent rage. For that matter, it doesn't necessary deprive him of the weapon since erections are still possible - so I am inclined to see this as barbaric.

Gemeni -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/4/2005 11:05:12 AM)
It's not about the erection dude,it's about the testosterone levels. Read the site-it's proven in studies that the recidivism rate of sexual predators drops dramatically after castration. From around 84% to about three percent-and none of the repeat offenders crimes were of an agressive nature. Kinda makes ya think,hmmm?

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/4/2005 11:25:28 AM)
Castration won't stop violent preditors. It's not about having balls or anything. It's about power and hurting someone.

FLButtSlut -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/4/2005 11:45:21 AM)
I traveled over to the link, and it is interesting, but only somewhat informative. The studies on castration and crime were obviously not done here in the United States. The culture of each country tends to be very different. I was certainly not about to start spending the money they requested to get all the additional reading materials, but you should be concerned that while they quote a "where" they don't quote a particular study or anything but how many were castrated and the recidivism rate. Statistics are unbelievably easy to manipulate to support your opinion, and the lack of detailed data on the site is troubling. They also seem to be discussing many issues all at once. There is the voluntary castration of law abiding individuals for medical or personal reasons...in those situations I believe that if medically beneficial to the individual or psychological testing (for the personal reasons) validates the castration, it should be the individuals choice. The problem is when they begin grouping the pedophile and the rapist in the same category. These are very different psychopathologies. It kind of seems like the backwards idea of saying homosexuals are pedophiles, when this is simply not the case. Most pedophiles are not terribly happy about their activities and will have guilt and remorse and the causes of their action would likely be helped through castration. However, rape is a violent act and frequently when someone is raped, the rapist may use implements other than his penis to achieve his goal. This is not to say that castration would definately be of no use. It very well might be. The problem is that the violence that accompanies the act must also be dealt with. There are women with violent tendencies and it isn't based on an overabundance of testosterone in their bodies, but psychological issues. So therefore, in the rapist, castration only solves a part of the problem. Given the cultural differences between the United States and the countries where the "supporting" data comes from (I think the fact that it is legal for a husband to kill his wife is some of those countries bears mentioning), studies would have to be done in the United States to be statistically accurate for how it would play out here. The mention by one poster on the link regarding voluntary castration as a condition of parole could possibly be the way for that study to be done. The main issue here is not whether or not we need to take a harder line on repeat offenders of any kind (I certainly believe we do), but for this particular issue, we need to have much more concrete data as to whether or not it might be successful. Voluntary castration as a condition of parole could very well be a way to obtain that concrete data. Something else to think about....Someone who receives the death penalty, automatically receives appeals (remember Timothy McVeigh's battle to stop them), and it is quite expensive. In this country, prior to someone suffering surgical modification of their body as punishment for a crime, a similar appellate process would have to be put in place. This solution may end up costing the citizens much more than it is worth. Why not just give them the death penalty and get rid of them entirely? Why the need to try to rehabilitate them in some way?

Gemeni -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/4/2005 1:18:44 PM)
The death penalty is no more of a solutiuon than castration,if you look at it closely. And it gives the rapist no incentive to leave his victim alive-the end result would be the same for him. In fact,by eliminating the only witness,it greatly increases his chance of never being aprehended at all-especially if he uses a condom to avoid leaving dna traces. I think we need to adress both the mental and physical issues-and let's face it,hormonal imbalances in the body are now being realized as a primary reason for many mental illnesses. In the case of pedophliles,it's now becoming recognized as a serious mental illness-these people simply cannot control thier impulses. So are we going to remove the recourse that they may wish of a lowered sex drive to help them combat it? I think liberalism and protecting human rights can be a bit too narrow in vision at times-such as in the case of the black man who WANTED to be castrated-but was blocked by black activists when it was seen a WHITE doctor would do the proceedure-that's racist yanno. Personally, I am all for looking at better alternatives to any sort of crime-and just killing people is an overly simplistic solution (very akin to Hitlerian thought ,really). In the long run, it only serves as a purely economic benfit in reducing costs to the state. Nothing has ever proved it to be a disincentive to the commision of crimes-criminals either act out of impulse,or simply feel they won't have to suffer the consequence. And let's face it, sociaopath considers what they do as a game (me against those morons)-and feel themselves too superior to get caught.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/4/2005 5:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gemeni I think liberalism and protecting human rights can be a bit too narrow in vision at times-such as in the case of the black man who WANTED to be castrated-but was blocked by black activists when it was seen a WHITE doctor would do the proceedure-that's racist yanno. Oh Puhleez! I bet they used whatever argument they could to stop the man from permanently mutilating himself, because they thought castration cruel and unusual... Were there no black physicians capable of cutting out testicles yah think? quote: Personally, I am all for looking at better alternatives to any sort of crime-and just killing people is an overly simplistic solution Now that's evolved thinking, and I agree with you but only because I don't trust in the fair/balanced application of justice/judgement... Otherwise, I'm fairly radical: IF all things were equal, I would be very much in favor of castrating repeat offenders of rape cases especially when they involve children younger than 13. Oh yeah, I would also favor the death penalty where guilt was proven beyond Any reasonable doubt for repeat offenders. When people argue that it's not a deterrent, I would argue that it deters at least 1 person (the dead predator). quote: sociaopath considers what they do as a game (me against those morons)-and feel themselves too superior to get caught. Precicely why they should be eliminated from living to tell/teach that type of thinking or behavior. Now, before anyone starts disagreeing and dropping jaws, I would never vote to approve these things because human beings are fallible, biased, impressionable, and frequently have agendas beyond the naked eye... and oh yeah, there is racism in administration of justice (for the above reasons), so I would almost rather take my chances with Hitler who at least Hated all people, so my odds would be the same as everyone else's. M

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/5/2005 2:52:09 AM)
It might actually make someone more violent because they are angry and resentfull to the castration.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/5/2005 12:33:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion It might actually make someone more violent because they are angry and resentfull to the castration. Than we could put them to sleep like rabid animals... I'm in no way the type to advocate violance EVER. As I said before, my thinking would never be okay on paper because the majority of people on the bench aren't as considerate or kind to ALL human beings, regardless of race/religion/color/creed. I am very much against violent types who pray on innocent/weaker people; so given 3chances, if a person continued with violent tendencies, and continued to rape children, or kill other people, I would absolutely be okay with putting him/her to sleep. M

iwillserveu -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/5/2005 3:55:16 PM)
Nice try, but it won't work. Rape is more about power. "I'm bigger, stronger, and badder than you, I can do what I like," etc. Castration, chemical or with a sharp knife, only prevents the perpatrator from leaving a DNA sample in the for of ejaculation.

MrThorns -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/5/2005 5:23:05 PM)
As a few have mentioned, rape has absolutely nothing to do with sex. So while castration may be a deterrent, it is only a deterrent in that the offender loses a part of their body. It might as well be a finger, a toe, arm, leg, etc. Point is, that they can still go out and rape, even if they have lost their reproductive organs. ~Thorns

darkinshadows -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/6/2005 12:05:59 PM)
It is just, Wrong.

junecleaver -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/7/2005 1:10:47 PM)
While I rapist might deserve something like that, I doubt it would solve the problem. I have a friend who put himself in a horrible situation. Now he's being accused of rape when he didn't even touch the girl and there is NO evidence against him except that they were both at the same party. His lawyer has advised him to plead guilty, even though he didn't do it--saying he'll spend less time in jail. I think that is sad and he definitely doesn't deserve to lose his balls. I just don't trust a court of law enough to decide whether a man should keep his balls or not.

MsMacComb -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/8/2005 1:53:19 AM)
I would hope that one day soon people will see that it is far cheaper and more humane to "catch" rapists, pedophiles, seriel killers etc when they are young. In almost all cases there was evidence of animal mutilation, abuse, anti-social behavior and so forth that was noticed but ignored as a child. For whatever insane reason far to many people dont see that it is cheaper to intervene and treat kids, (and in some cases remove them from society for everyones protection, theirs and ours) than it is to incarcerate them after they have raped, mutilated and/or killed someone. Our governments job is to protect us, our borders, our cities and schools. Thats what we PAY them for, not cocktail parties, and campaign fundraisers. Violence begets violence. As more and more countries abolish the death penalty and other forms of brutality the US , the Bush Administration and the religious fundies seem to think its a great idea to go the other way. History has shown that these methods dont work in a democratic society and yes they do in China but then who wnats to live like a kept animal. Besides, one would hope that evolution would eventually kick in and allow "some" to see a better way to protect society and deal with those that can not live in it.

FLButtSlut -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/9/2005 10:57:34 PM)
In order to properly determine if this is a a solution, I will say AGAIN, voluntary castration should be an option. I would no more want someone to dictate whether or not I can get another tattoo than would want to dictate whether or not some man can voluntarily have himself castrated. June, I am SO sorry for your friend. I have been through something similar with a friend of mine. It was a long battle (he was aquitted in the end, I hope that gives you hope), but oh so stressful. I also know of someone currently serving time on a statutory charge (there is a law that needs serious revising). He was definately guilty, but it certainly doesn't warrant castration. As for the Pro/Con of the death penalty. In nearly ALL cases, carrying out the death penalty is more expensive than the life sentence. This is caused by the multiple times the case gets appealed, etc. I believe, although I might be mistaken, that Charles Manson (who did receive the death penalty) is one of the only prisoners to date who has cost the state (which ever one you want, his is California) more money to carry out his sentence than it would have taken to execute his worthless ass. He will never be released from prison, and year after year, we will continue to pay the necessary funds through our taxes to make sure that his psychosis lives on. Good deal. Certainly, there are as many arguments for the death penalty as against it , Gemeni. The idea of castration will simply bring about the same arguments. I think that making it a voluntary option could be a good way to start. But the reality is, we are looking at men being released from jail after decades of serving time because FINALLY they have proven their case and their inability to have committed the crime. This is done through DNA and other evidence. Do YOU want to be responsible for having castrated one of those innocent men? Personally, I would rather pass. If it is voluntary, by all means, slice and dice and follow them around to monitor progress, but there is still far too many variables preventing me from getting on board here.

BlackGoddess2u -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/29/2005 9:03:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iwillserveu Nice try, but it won't work. Rape is more about power. "I'm bigger, stronger, and badder than you, I can do what I like," etc. Castration, chemical or with a sharp knife, only prevents the perpatrator from leaving a DNA sample in the for of ejaculation. I wonder if my exhusband would have raped my 7 yr old daughter if he didn't have a penis and testicles. He took away her innocence; the 14 yr jail sentence (7 yrs if he paroles) won't give that back to her. He needs to suffer permanently for what he did to her.

darkinshadows -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/29/2005 9:57:13 AM)
quote: In almost all cases there was evidence of animal mutilation, abuse, anti-social behavior and so forth that was noticed but ignored as a child. For whatever insane reason far to many people dont see that it is cheaper to intervene and treat kids, (and in some cases remove them from society for everyones protection, theirs and ours) than it is to incarcerate them after they have raped, mutilated and/or killed someone. Whilst I understand and also to some extent support your view, it is very dangerous ground in some respect. How many people on this forum have openly admitted that they begun 'exploring' at a very early age, even if they didn't understand the concept of BDSM. Examples of spanking friends, tying up people in the schoolyard, hording images of erotica are all examples of what people did as children and teenagers and, by society standards, this would be viewed in the same way as abuse, animal mutilation etc. Give religious and fundemental governments a chance, and most of the people here may have been 'removed from society' ... just a simple thought.

siamsa24 -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/29/2005 10:22:29 AM)
quote: In almost all cases there was evidence of animal mutilation, abuse, anti-social behavior and so forth that was noticed but ignored as a child. For whatever insane reason far to many people dont see that it is cheaper to intervene and treat kids, (and in some cases remove them from society for everyones protection, theirs and ours) than it is to incarcerate them after they have raped, mutilated and/or killed someone. They tried this for a while. Taking "problem children" out of schools and placing them in special programs, they even went so far as to take children with a certain gene out of school immediatly. In the end, this made it worse. This approach only caused the children to become even more alienated which can cause even more anti-social behavior later in life. Another problem is the cause of the problem behaviors. It was later found that some of the children taken out and put into the special programs actually had learning disabilities or ADHD, not an anti-social personality. Children act out and may harm others for various reasons and some of them simply grow out of it and learn to deal with things in more effective ways.

iwillserveu -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/29/2005 12:43:21 PM)
Won't work. Who in their right mind thinks a guy is lustful after a 78 year old woman? ("She was wearing her good night gown and I could not resist."[:D]) Rape is a crime of power. ("I can make you feel like shit.") Eliminating the testosterone at best would mean it would not be rape but some wierd assault.

Jennsen -> RE: Castration as a remedy to rape (4/30/2005 2:02:34 PM)
I live in a small quiet farming state, and in the last month, there have been 3 little girls all under the age of 10yrs old, abducted, raped, and murdered, and their bodies dumped. These crimes were all done by close friends of their families...I know not every one will agree with me on this, but for these men I think the death penalty is in order! Two of them were repeat sex offenders, that refused treatment in prison and were still let out knowing they were "high risk" offenders. Anyone who can do this to a child deserves to die themselves. If someone did this to my one and only child, and was let out again, I would kill him myself...I would have nothing else to loose...and this would guarantee that he could never rape or murder again.

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