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RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 2:20:39 AM

girl4you2

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i will echo what quivver said; it's so easy to submit when everything lines up, and so sublimely great. when things aren't right, it's not so very easy, especially when one is used to needing to be in control in everyday life.

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Post #: 21

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 2:30:52 AM

justinedoll

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In my opinion d/s relation or relationships appears naturally, just somone is more dominant then other. Has stronger character. Bouth look for some kind of emotional safeness. One becuse controll other beacuse is controlled. And for bouth sytuation is natural. Dificulties can be when people dont accept their roles, because they seems diffirent from ussual social rules. Dont want to agree or dont want to explore things they realy like (so many on net and on only on net). In country i was growing up It was natural that someone was dominating in couple. Or people were partners. I found in USA or western europe culture is strong tendention for partnership based on being equal. Often on the begining was kind of psychical fight between the people and winner became the Dominant. But everything was going from character not regulations, and I thing noone was thinking if his role is difficult or easy

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 22

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 3:59:58 AM

gypsygrl

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In general, its easiest to do what the situation requires. Sometimes, that means being the one "in control," other times it means ceding control. Alot of times, I cede control because the costs of keeping or taking it are too high, or because I don't have enough interest to do the work involved to maintain control. Its just not worth it.

Basically, I will take control in situtations that are bordering on a crisis if nobody else is taking charge and the times I've done this its been easy. Because I'm not really into having contoll for its own sake, I have no problem stepping back when the situation stabilizes or resolves itself.

For the most part, however, situations are such that no-one can control them, or they aren't evolved enough to be controlled. In these cases, its easy for me to sit back and do nothing. In other cases, there's someone around who has a handle on things, in which case, I have no problem taking a secondary role or stepping away entirely.

This having been said, I'm not sure what control has to do with D/s and it's variants. My thinking is provisional here, but I'm not sure dominance necessarily involves control. Its an issue that I've been mulling over for quite some time. My submission does not necessarily depend on being controlled or even Dominated. I do get off on being controlled or dominated but, increasingly, I'm thinking that has more to do with the fact that I'm a masochist in addition to identifying as a submissive. I think this is similar to what Aileen said (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't necessarily like being controlled/dominated and it pisses me off sometimes. Other times its emotioanlly painful in a different kind of way. Submitting makes me hot but I wouldn't characterize it as easy. On the other hand, if I value the relationship, I'll do the work of submitting to maintain it rather than walk away.

I do agree that everyone has the capacity to submit, in some sense of the word, but not everybody has the capacity to dominate. Although, not everybody has the capacity to submit in the context of a long term relationship.

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 3/16/2007 4:01:20 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 4:38:22 AM

mstrjx

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Probably I would have answered this question the same way, but specifically how you worded it makes it evident.

Naturally I'm going against the grain here, but I'm quite certain of my reasoning, which unfortunately I cannot go into extensively here.

I could phrase this any number of ways, but I'll just say that it is infinitely easier to submit.

Jeff

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Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 24

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 4:50:01 AM

dawntreader

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

A lot of subs are control freaks actually and find it very difficult to let go of control over things- that's why we create soft limits after all, so they can be given time and space to let go of those things and relax. The control is released over time, the authority is surrendered gradually. That's why you see so many subs say they have such a hard time being pampered or communicating honestly or asking directly for something- it's all years of layers of controlled behavior that needs to be re-trained.

While i would not say i am a "control freak", i do have to be in a lot of control for the majority of my interactions. i totally agree with you here LA as it pertains to me :-)

edited to answer the OP: while it is in my nature to submit - it is the harder to do and gives me the greater satisfaction when acheived~

< Message edited by dawntreader -- 3/16/2007 4:51:42 AM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 5:23:36 AM

slaveish

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Like many other subs here, it seems, it is much easier for me to control than it is for me to submit. For me, the urge and need to control has to do with survival - control (for me) was a learned behavior so that I could deal with situations in my life.

I was not complete until I learned to submit. There was something pulling me, something unnamed and unknown, and I always felt it. I was empty. And then I met a Dom. And I learned servitude. And the hole filled up.

It is still difficult for me to submit although it is getting much easier. I am learning to ask for what I want and need and not feel guilty about it (and!) I am learning that "no" is not the end of the world. In fact, "no" feels pretty good sometimes.

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(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 26

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 5:37:41 AM

justinedoll

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I ve noticed there is many kinds of d/s starting from total ovnership, controll and real slavery until, friendly contact wits some bdsm games in bed. Interestin is that d/s relationship can be based on diffirent things. Looking for emotional safeness, exploring sexual fantasies and personality, Sadism and masochism. Maby u found its dofficult to find bdsm partner beacuse of those diffirences

(in reply to slaveish)

Post #: 27

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 6:05:39 AM

Devilslilsister

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i find it easier to control, but then i have 10 years of conditioning/training myself to do just that. And 20 years of controlling myself emotionally. Very easy and almost second nature to step into that role. Submission is hard because i am used to shoving everything inside of me into a locked box. So for me, its much easier to be wrapped tight and control everything around me from a place inside based on fear - then to let go and be myself.

< Message edited by Devilslilsister -- 3/16/2007 6:06:50 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 8:58:00 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Anyway this discussion has led me to another question:

Why is it a choice to be controlling in the workplace and an orientation to be submissive in the d/s relationship?

To tie it in with what LA said about orientation, I was thinking it is both orientation and choice at work here at both ends of the equation with orientation determining and choice prevailing.

I prefer jobs where I have a task and can work on my own. As LA said, many submissives are control freak perfectionists and I'm one of them. I don't trust that others will do as good a job as I will, so I want to do it myself. So I'm more than happy to have an authority figure give me an assignment, but then leave me alone and let me do it my way.

hehehe

I actually had a supervisor tell me one time that I had a problem with authority. I don't have a problem with authority if I am confident in their knowledge and experience, but don't tell me how to do my job when I have more knowledge and experience in that arena than you do. Suggestions welcome....... then go away and let me do what I think works best, which may or may not include your suggestion.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 29

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 9:03:17 AM

MasterFireMaam

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For me, it'd be much easier to submit as a service slave. However, I recognize it's my calling to be a Master in this life perhaps because it's the more challenging path for me. I do submit in service to many things, i.e. being a leader in my local community or volunteering my time at a large event, but I rarely submit to a person (or couple). When I do, I feel I am called to do so. I have done this twice...and I know that I will do it more.. I've served a couple who are my friends to aide them in a national title run (and they won!) and I served a friend/lover in order to help him better define himself.

However, there are four others to which I would, and have, knelt to present, in full service. This is for MY benefit, actually, because I recognize them as spiritual teachers. So far, they have actually asked little of me, most likely because I am at the stage where I recognize that there is nothing they can ask me to do that is any more difficult than what I should and do ask of myself.

I do not offer service or kneel lightly. Doing so is for my growth as well as theirs. This doesn't make me less a Master in my eyes. In fact, it makes me more.

Master Fire

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(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 30

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 9:23:11 AM

Dnomyar

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I think that the way you have lived your life has a lot to do with weather it is eaiser for you to submit or control.

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 31

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 3:47:10 PM

SlyStone

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My thinking is provisional here, but I'm not sure dominance necessarily involves control.

But isn't to dominate to affect control? I think you can control without being dominant but I am not sure how you can be dominant without having control, but that's just my perspective.

I do agree with you that the use of control can be minimal and one can still be dominant. And I also think that control can be overused and sometimes masks the inability to dominate rather than affects domination.

In other words the dom who needs to micromanage may in fact be doing so because he is insecure and the sub who needs to be micromanaged may have that need because he/she is unsure of their submission. No criticism here, both are normal states of mind, just something to think about.

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Post #: 32

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 3:57:29 PM

SlyStone

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For me, it'd be much easier to submit as a service slave. However, I recognize it's my calling to be a Master in this life perhaps because it's the more challenging path for me.

I wonder what you mean by "easier" here.

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Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

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Post #: 33

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 3:58:49 PM

SlyStone

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I actually had a supervisor tell me one time that I had a problem with authority.

That is actually pretty funny if you think about it :)

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Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

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Post #: 34

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 4:25:31 PM

agirl

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It depends on the situation.

I'm owned and have to submit, whether I like it or not. I don't always like it but I almost always like having done so.

When I think about M's role in my life, I think it's a lot of bloody hard work, frankly.

I have a fair few sprogs and grand-sprogs, and keeping on top of what's happening in all their lives; making the best choices and decisions, makes my head spin at times. (ok, most of the time). I have enough of an idea of what it's like to know that it has limited appeal for me......lol

I wouldn't want to be my owner.

agirl

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 35

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 5:30:10 PM

BeingChewsie

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For me it is much easier to just submit and give in.

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~Ron and Hup

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Post #: 36

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 5:33:08 PM

mstrjx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

For me, it'd be much easier to submit as a service slave. However, I recognize it's my calling to be a Master in this life perhaps because it's the more challenging path for me.

I wonder what you mean by "easier" here.

This was fairly well the thought that I had when I wrote my original reply.

It's the whole 'definition' thing all over again, but for those who don't keep score I'll recap what 'slave' and 'owner' means to me.

A slave is able to surrender themselves such that they have no need to concern themselves with themselves. The exception to this is self-preservation (such that if the owner is not fit for ownership the slave can leave; also applies to medical needs if these are not being met).

An owner assumes the responsibility not only of him/herself, but the slave's as well. This frees the slave to be able to dedicate themself to the owner without negative repercussion.

Here's a command: Do 'this'.

An owner, while issuing the command, has to make certain that 'this' gets done. They also have to ensure themselves that whatever 'this' is will not impact negatively the slave's physical or emotional well-being. They have to bear in mind whether 'this' falls into some 'limit' category.

The slave, conversely, only has to perform the 'this' action. Obedience and service is what they are about.

A person in control to that extent is akin to the stage performer keeping the plates spinning on the sticks. A lot of concentration, a lot of work, a lot of controlling (whether it seems overt or not).

Capisce?

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 37

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 5:42:24 PM

gypsygrl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't always like it but I almost always like having done so.

This is pretty much what submitting's like for me alot of the time which is why I consider it 'hard.' My liking it is often post-facto and I have to really grit my teeth doing it. But, once its done, I'm like, wow, that was cool.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

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Post #: 38

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 5:46:49 PM

gypsygrl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

My thinking is provisional here, but I'm not sure dominance necessarily involves control.

But isn't to dominate to affect control? I think you can control without being dominant but I am not sure how you can be dominant without having control, but that's just my perspective.

I do agree with you that the use of control can be minimal and one can still be dominant. And I also think that control can be overused and sometimes masks the inability to dominate rather than affects domination.

In other words the dom who needs to micromanage may in fact be doing so because he is insecure and the sub who needs to be micromanaged may have that need because he/she is unsure of their submission. No criticism here, both are normal states of mind, just something to think about.

Yeah. I dont really know. I think its just a "less is more" kind of thing.

I tend to think in terms of "influence" rather than "control." Influence is less heavy handed and can be very subtle. Outside of D/s, domination takes a lot of different forms, explicit control being the least common.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 39

RE: Give or take a little - 3/16/2007 7:37:47 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone
As a dominant I don't get turned on by the act of domination, I get turned on by her submission, and aside from sadists I think most dominants would agree with that statement, or would they?

And what do you mean by Turned-on?.... are you suggesting it in a sexual context?

I don't get sexually turned-on by acts of Dominance unless they are Acts that are of a sexual motivation or intention. I also know many submissives that also don't get turned-on sexually just because they do some acts of submission... unless that are acts of a sexually motivation or intention.

It seems you equate Acts of Dominance and Submission as having an underlying sexual context. Fact is alot of both are not of any sexual motivation that all.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 40

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