Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send?

Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (Full Version)

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rskenderian -> Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 8:27:30 AM)
Hi Ma'am's, Mistresses, and Dommes, i have heard so many complaints - from both chatrooms and profiles - in the two weeks i've been here about male subs simply not knowing -actually clueless about - how to approach a Domme. i'm bisexual (unless my Owner prefers me not to be), and have looked for some male lovers at times, and it's pretty fruitless. No matter WHAT - i always get a penis-pic, one sentence or a portion of a sentence, always mis-spelled and gramatically horrid ... and that's it. Unbelievably, many a men think "making love" is a novel idea, and actually write to me that they would "really like to try that." Sure. Let's try that. i remain speechless. What am i supposed to do with that? It is truly frightening that out of 100 men, perhaps one is worth my 'training'(?) or 'teaching'(?) or 'educating'(?) how not to be so offensive to me that i simply don't wish to see or hear them. i have advertised for an "Elder Gentleman, Top/Dom" and received utter ... i'm ashamed to say. i empathize. But, are You not doing Yourselves the most greatest dis-service possible to Yourselves in posting in Your profiles about how to contact You, what subs should or should not write, and how they should write it, and what pics subs should or should not ply You with? Tell any buffoon what seranade to sing You, and that's the serande You'll likely get. Now how are You supposed to tell what's authentic and what's not? Believe it or not, there are respectably-actualized, very real, highly-intelligent, loving, gentlemanly, knightly, powerful men around who deeply crave a loving and strict Domme, who have weaknesses they cannot overcome without their needed Domme, who cannot function without their needed Domme, who cannot live without their needed Domme, who do not even want to think about living without their needed Domme, who need a Domme to love them and care for them and that nothing else is possible or worth living for, and who realize all of this quite acutely, and feel and therefore act accordingly. i know this for a fact - i'm one of them. Here's some truths about a quality sub/slave: - You will never have to tell me how to approach You. You should never tell me how to approach You. i should know how to approach You; if i don't, then You pass on me because i'm not good enough. You reply that i'm not good enough, and that i fail to gain Your interest. You can have a form letter for this purpose, since You will send it out a lot, most likely; - You will never be offended by my letter of interest. If You are offended, then i need to start back at square one. This can be in Your form letter, too ..."you need to go back to square one, and start over;" - You will always have a proper photo of me available. The photo You want of me is in my profile - where it belongs, if You're interested; - i will never send a photo in a letter of interest. The photo You want of me is in my profile - where it belongs, if You're interested; - i will never send my photo in a reply to my letter of interest ....[8\|] - i will never require any instructions on how to contact You with a letter of interest. Your honest profile will tell me everything i need to know ... won't it? - i will never take the lead in asking questions; i will follow Your lead. That is why You're a Domme and i'm a sub. You provide me with permission to do as You do, by doing what You do. i will never attempt to push further than where You permit me to go, whether spoken , insinuated, or unspoken. It is up to my excellence to pick up Your permissions - however You give them. i am not a veteran at all. i've had one three-year D/s relationship and the slightest experience in this type of venue. This is all extremely simple and need never be spoken. If i am a sub, if i am a man, if i am an adult, then these simple things are simply obvious ... aren't they? But i see that, as long as You continue to prematurely 'educate' what are really uneducatable subs (if they're 30 years old, do they really need that kind of remedial education, as if they haven't had it already in everyday life? i can understand if they're five years old....), then you will have uneducated subs You 'educated' getting through Your most important first line of defense, which is ... their own mistakes! Doesn't that just tell You everything You need to really know? Now You end up corresponding with them, only to find out - surprise! - they're actually uneducated and are clueless about how not to offend You. Then You complain about it. Do You want Your sub to say "Thank-You" when appropriate? or... Do You want Your sub to feel so grateful that they need to express their gratefulness by saying "Thank-You" not because it's appropriate, but because it's true? i think i'm seeing far too many (and i think one is too many) Domme profiles telling subs exactly what they should never be told - which ends up really being; how to fake their way in to a Domme. In fact, from what i'm seeing, the vast majority of Dommes are prematurely educating subs and telling them exactly how to simply go through the motions, instead of waiting for a sub who knows what to do and why. i don't like it ... at all. There is no possible way i want to be associated with what i know and have seen is out there as subs, Doms, men in general. In no way do i want other subs or men to be educated on how to emulate what i do for real. In no way do i want other subs or men to be told that they should write something of substance, like i naturally and always do because it is so obvious that it need not even be said and is the entire purpose of why i would write something in the first place. No, no, no, please, no; i do not want there to be any confusion what-so-ever about who's who. It seems to me that this premature education is an act of desperation. i can understand that; i'm desperate. But what possible good end can come of it? Disappointments upon disappointments. That a Domme does not see that They are doing Themselves and each Other the biggest dis-service possible by 'educatng' men about how to appear like a real sub, means that Those who 'educate' in Their profiles are not worthy of a proper sub/slave. Why? Because if a Domme does not understand the nature of the tremendous backfire She is doing to Her own Self and to Others, how is She supposed to ever understand the nature of something i do which backfires on me??? i need my Domme to see these things for me. i need my Domme to catch every one of my mistakes. i need my Domme to make the right decisions for me. i need my Domme to absolutely catch me on everything, not let me get away with anything, hear every time i'm out of tune and tune me easily, reward me for my excellence, punish me for my destructiveness. i shouldn't even be writing this post.... i'm prematurely educating uneducated Dommes, and now i won't be able to tell the difference anymore between Dommes who are behaving destructively out of laziness and Dommes who are in control - simply by looking at Their profiles and seeing if They are educating the uneducatable. That's what professional services are for .... remedial training. i can do that, but i cost a lot for that kind of offensive work. But, i just, just, just CANNOT STAND other subs being educated to emulate in mechanical behavior what i feel and therefore do for real. For e/Everyone's sake, please stop. Please. Unless i am missing the larger point of things. Thank-You for reading; it is very important to me; and i believe to everyone. end of weekly rant - puppy "richard"

onestandingstill -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 8:40:40 AM)
I think if you over specify you'll miss out on a lot of things because you've painted yourself in a box. I think people sending what they wish you to see vs what they think you want to see shows you who they really are and what motivates them. Many can behave like a trained seal by plagerism. I'd rather find someone who has a similar perspective without me showing mine first and being copied.

Celeste43 -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 9:23:10 AM)
It shouldn't be necessary for any women, domme, sub or vanilla to specify that she will only respond to polite letters which indicate the other person has read their profile. It shouldn't be necessary to say no cock pics. But it is. The thing here is that most men approach sexuality different from women. Men frequently will want sex when they're angry and will talk about the problem afterwards unfortunately women are usually the other way around and aren't interested sexually during emotionally charged times. Men like looking at pictures of naked women, porn proves that. But there are a lot less magazines filled with naked men that are aimed at the het female market. But men approach women using the approach that would work for them. They would be thrilled to have a hot domme send him naked photos and demand a letter filled with details of how he would serve her orally. Ain't gonna happen. Most men have never taken a course on the difference between men and women, they were clueless early on and remain that way because they haven't been educated.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 9:35:37 AM)
*Ah Richard... you are such a cutie... long winded, but still a cutie.* All of what you said would make sense if we believed that most of the submissives that contact us actually read our profiles. Mine was empty for the longest time, it said "Married, bi and poly". That's it. I got numerous emails from sub males that said "I really liked your profile." What profile? My personal faves were the ones that said "We have a lot in common!" Oh really? I wonder if they too were married, bi and poly? Not to worry richard, the ones you speak of are generally not the ones that spend a lot of time reading these boards and posting here, you haven't let any secrets out, you are simply preaching to the choir. *Jewel*

thetammyjo -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 10:38:48 AM)
There is a pyschological idea that our brains have difficulty understanding negatives. I rewrote my profile into a series of questions that I tried to keep negatives out of for this reason. Goodness knows that telling folks to not do X usually didn't work because those people did not look for more than one sentence in my profile.

SweetDommes -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 12:02:52 PM)
What really gets me is that there are submissive males out there who say that they want to be told how to contact a Domme because otherwise they are clueless. Not that most of them who contact us pay attention to what we have said, but I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head who say that they prefer to have guidelines in a Domme's profile as to what is wanted in an initial contact. I also have to say that when I had our old profile up with the 4 questions at the end, we got a lot of decent first e-mails, and of course, it was painfully obvious who hadn't read the profile LOL. With the current profile with only the instruction to not call me "ma'am" we get a lot of crap ... lol.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 12:38:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rskenderian But, are You not doing Yourselves the most greatest dis-service possible to Yourselves in posting in Your profiles about how to contact You, what subs should or should not write, and how they should write it, and what pics subs should or should not ply You with? Tell any buffoon what seranade to sing You, and that's the serande You'll likely get. Now how are You supposed to tell what's authentic and what's not? No. In doing so, I am giving them a heads up, and it makes it much easier to weed out those buffoons. I guarantee you, that in spite of My precise instructions, most of the email I receive doesn't even begin to approach the information I request. Instead,I amgetting emails about how they love My profile, love My pics, and have read it over and over, and they are ready to serve. Oh yes,and then I get their IM IDs, and an offer to serve Me on cam. quote: Believe it or not, there are respectably-actualized, very real, highly-intelligent, loving, gentlemanly, knightly, powerful men around who deeply crave a loving and strict Domme, who have weaknesses they cannot overcome without their needed Domme, who cannot function without their needed Domme, who cannot live without their needed Domme, who do not even want to think about living without their needed Domme, who need a Domme to love them and care for them and that nothing else is possible or worth living for, and who realize all of this quite acutely, and feel and therefore act accordingly. i know this for a fact - i'm one of them. Here's some truths about a quality sub/slave: - You will never have to tell me how to approach You. You should never tell me how to approach You. i should know how to approach You; if i don't, then You pass on me because i'm not good enough. You reply that i'm not good enough, and that i fail to gain Your interest. You can have a form letter for this purpose, since You will send it out a lot, most likely; I agree that you (and all the masuline types) should know how to respectfully approach Me. However, in setting forth guidelines for specific information in My profile, I am setting up an initial test of willingness and effort and I am getting the information I seek, without having to address these things in a second,third and fourth email. This saves Me time, and I do not have excessive time on My hands to spend writing back and forth just to get the basic ideas of whether or not we might have something to explore. quote: - You will never be offended by my letter of interest. If You are offended, then i need to start back at square one. This can be in Your form letter, too ..."you need to go back to square one, and start over;" It isn't even a matter of being offended, as much as it is a matter of being efficient. Offensive emails are ignored, and if the sender persists, s/he will probably be blocked. I am not offended by one liners (in most cases), but I am disappointed. Would this person make a good slave when I have already stated what I expect, and it is ignored? Easy delete. quote: - You will always have a proper photo of me available. The photo You want of me is in my profile - where it belongs, if You're interested; - i will never send a photo in a letter of interest. The photo You want of me is in my profile - where it belongs, if You're interested; - i will never send my photo in a reply to my letter of interest ....[8\|] And you have a nice photo in your profile.Therefore an additional photo would not be required by Me. But boys who never send a photo, or make excuses aboput why they have none or can't send one...well, sorry, but not acceptable. I have one (I mean 7?) out there, so I think I can ask for one in a private email in return. quote: - i will never require any instructions on how to contact You with a letter of interest. Your honest profile will tell me everything i need to know ... won't it? - i will never take the lead in asking questions; i will follow Your lead. That is why You're a Domme and i'm a sub. You provide me with permission to do as You do, by doing what You do. i will never attempt to push further than where You permit me to go, whether spoken , insinuated, or unspoken. It is up to my excellence to pick up Your permissions - however You give them. Again, I am giving instructions for the basic information I would like to see in an initial letter of introduction. Think of Me as a company and this is My resume format. If you choose to ignore it, I probably won't hire you. You are, most likely, to be a poor employee who wants to do things his way, and will convince Me (or try) that his way is better. It is Domination and submission for a reason. I don't want someone else telling Me that I should be happy with what he is willing to do in his way. So, I am giving the permissions in giving the instructions or the guidelines. I have asked My questions by outlining what I want to see. Why take, again, 2 or 3 or 4 emails toget all this? It can always be expanded upon in future correspndence, but I want to begin with something solid. I see nothing wrong with that. quote: i am not a veteran at all. i've had one three-year D/s relationship and the slightest experience in this type of venue. This is all extremely simple and need never be spoken. If i am a sub, if i am a man, if i am an adult, then these simple things are simply obvious ... aren't they? But i see that, as long as You continue to prematurely 'educate' what are really uneducatable subs (if they're 30 years old, do they really need that kind of remedial education, as if they haven't had it already in everyday life? i can understand if they're five years old....), then you will have uneducated subs You 'educated' getting through Your most important first line of defense, which is ... their own mistakes! Doesn't that just tell You everything You need to really know? Now You end up corresponding with them, only to find out - surprise! - they're actually uneducated and are clueless about how not to offend You. Then You complain about it. . <snipped throughout in the interest of space and time) This premature education has become a necessity. It is a good way to weed through the hundreds of emails most of us receive. Otherwise, I would feel (this isMe, not everyone!) an obligation to educate on an individual basis, and, frankly, I don'thave the time. Trust Me when I say that the very occasional buffoon might get through for a couple of emails, but the true buffoon will show through quickly., Most of these boys/girls will not bother to take the time to follow the instructions in the first place. I am not saying they can get toMe by following My specific instructions. Time has proven they won't follow them anyway. And, as buffoons, they do not think far enough ahead to realize that they could begin something by following instructions. A lack of ability to do this is already ingrained. For the very few who do make a good beginning, I guarantee,they will not be able to maintain it for long. No, I do not waste time with potentials. They don't get to Me and then show that they are not who they represent themselves to be after a long period of time. I can cut through that pretty quickly,and I am sure My Dominant Sisters have the same ability. That would be an extremely rare instance, and I have not seen complaints about this on the boards. So your argument holds no water for Me. I am sorry that you seem so frustrated and feeling like We are giving opportunities to those who do not, in your opinion, deserve that opportunity. But, again, I ask you to trust me when I say that most will not follow the instructions or guidelines anyway.They look at a picture and hope they will get a chance to chat with someone hot. They are not really looking in the first place. And if they are...isn't it nice that some or many of Us are trying to help them along with this premature education? My profile is quite specific and most will not be bothered because it is too much work. So I can save time, I can save them time, and I can open the door for someone like you. Sounds like a good and fair deal to Me. Noted that I did not read the other responses. Sorry if I am repeating. Edited for tags

Misstoyou -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 1:00:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel *Ah Richard... you are such a cutie... long winded, but still a cutie.* Ditto. [:)] But actually even though it's not the style of my profile when I'm looking, (it's in my nic lol) I think seeing in the first email whether a prospective submissive reads and can actually follow directions is a good thing. As others have said, the sad part is how many don't do either.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 2:41:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel *Ah Richard... you are such a cutie... long winded, but still a cutie.* *Jewel* Nodding in agreement. [:D] To the OP... Yes you are right that a man, especially one in his 30s and older who says he is a submissive, should have the basics down (like respect/gallantry); but the basics of propriety are only basic to people who know them, and I am convinced of this every time I go out with yet another person who missed the little lessons from mom/dad/grandma. In our dominant women defense, we give clear hints/directions because we don't want to be accused of having to have our minds read (usually said by people who can't even read the obvious, lol). Besides that, I wouldn't reject a kind/generous/gentle soul simply because he missed some civics lesson, as long as he is open to learning without tude. Anyway, we welcome you and your long winded cuteness to the boards. M

MIstrezzTanya -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 2:51:55 PM)
LOL.. richard.. u are a treat! [:D] It seems common courtesy is NOT common... and manners... like service that I desire.. sometimes must be taught (boo! on those parental figures that left that to the wayside.. I wont even begin to talk about internet introduction as a whole, My feeling is that the internet somehow allows those that use it to forget propriety. and I have been in the lifestyle long enough to appreciate the old way of meeting prospective subs.. either by good fortune (and manipulation..lol) or proper introduction from other Dominants. Miss Tanya

MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 3:00:32 PM)
Yes I agree with Miss Tanya. I have never met a submissive or slave over the net. Almost all of them were given to me or introduced by other Dominants. One or two were good looking men I met at play parties. The net is really useful to find out what is going on in my local scene and get ideas/information. Pro dommes say it is a good source of clients. But its too much work as a way for us non-professionals to meet men. Too many offensive photos and silly email. If I am single I tell my friends and they fix me up with nice submissive men.....that maybe they met over the net! So the trick is to only look for friends here and not openly seek men at all, much less tell them what to write or what photos to send. The good ones (like richard) will find you in their own way :)

Misstoyou -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 3:22:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne But its too much work as a way for us non-professionals to meet men. Not always. lol

MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 4:01:08 PM)
Yes of course :) .......and also not everyone is from a big city with a thriving scene, so they don't have much choice. Poor things!.

cloudboy -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 6:16:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Misstoyou ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel *Ah Richard... you are such a cutie... long winded, but still a cutie.* Ditto. [:)] OK, I'll jump on the bandwagon too, I liked his post as well. I must confess, though, that when I write to Dommes, I just approach them as myself with my own agenda. I don't come on as presumptuous or anything, I just try to see if we have the ability to relate to one another. I figure if we can discuss a small topic in a fruitful way, then maybe we have the capacity for bigger things as well. I guess I would classify this as "the friendly approach," as opposed to the profile research and resume approach. In my mind, laconic profiles like shiftejewel's are just as good as the ornate ones like GDG's. Who really cares about profiles anyway??? What's more important is how we conduct ourselves --- which arguably was the OP's very thesis point. Write me down as CONCURRING.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 7:00:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy OK, I'll jump on the bandwagon too, I liked his post as well. I must confess, though, that when I write to Dommes, I just approach them as myself with my own agenda. I don't come on as presumptuous or anything, I just try to see if we have the ability to relate to one another. I figure if we can discuss a small topic in a fruitful way, then maybe we have the capacity for bigger things as well. I guess I would classify this as "the friendly approach," as opposed to the profile research and resume approach. In my mind, laconic profiles like shiftejewel's are just as good as the ornate ones like GDG's. Who really cares about profiles anyway??? What's more important is how we conduct ourselves --- which arguably was the OP's very thesis point. Write me down as CONCURRING. I would concur to a certain extent, also. It would be great if I didn't feel had to be so detailed in order to cut off most of the crap at the pass. And I feel that the OP has a valid question. However it was not presented as a question. He posted it, in My mind, as advice to Dominas regarding how we are cutting off our own noses by giving instructions or too much information in our profiles. I have corresponded with many boys on a friendship level. But if that is their way to eventually get to Me without following My instructions in the first place, (their own agenda, if you will Smile) that will never come to pass. It has been tried and it has failed. For then I see that as a veiled power struggle from the get go. That is the point I was trying to make clear to the OP.

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 7:12:49 PM)
That is exactly what would turn me off to a partner. I want someone who is self sufficient and a whole and complete person outside of me. I would not be attracted to people who couldn't exsist without a domme, and who couldn't function with out me over seeing them. quote: ORIGINAL: rskenderian who have weaknesses they cannot overcome without their needed Domme, who cannot function without their needed Domme, who cannot live without their needed Domme, who do not even want to think about living without their needed Domme, who need a Domme to love them and care for them and that nothing else is possible or worth living for, - puppy "richard"

petdave -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/16/2007 7:29:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rskenderian i don't like it ... at all. There is no possible way i want to be associated with what i know and have seen is out there as subs, Doms, men in general. Well, ranting about the behavior of Dommes, pointing out that you're desperate, and detailing how you expect to be treated is a good start [:D] quote: In no way do i want other subs or men to be educated on how to emulate what i do for real. In no way do i want other subs or men to be told that they should write something of substance, like i naturally and always do because it is so obvious that it need not even be said and is the entire purpose of why i would write something in the first place. No, no, no, please, no; i do not want there to be any confusion what-so-ever about who's who. Why the fear of imitation, if you are truly confident of your superiority? It gives little credit to the Dominant Women of CM, does it not, to assume that they'll be misled by any shallow facade, mechanically applied by any random fool? ...dave

LaMistressa -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/17/2007 6:10:04 AM)
Hey, thanks for telling me what I've been doing wrong all these years, dude! Love it when I guy tells me how to run my affairs. Oh, and LPDR.

TexasMaam -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/17/2007 7:24:48 AM)
rskenderian, You're a fine young fellow brimming with enthusiasm and hope and frustration and eagerness. How grand! However: "But i see that, as long as You continue to prematurely 'educate' what are really uneducatable subs (if they're 30 years old, do they really need that kind of remedial education, as if they haven't had it already in everyday life? i can understand if they're five years old....), then you will have uneducated subs You 'educated' getting through Your most important first line of defense, which is ... their own mistakes! Doesn't that just tell You everything You need to really know? " I, on the other hand, am an experienced Domme who simply does not have time to waste on wannabe's - and since I posted in My profile exactly what I'm looking for here at CM, I have to say that I really haven't received very many unwanted emails, which in turn frees up MY time to focus on those sincere submissives who take the time to read My profile and follow My instructions. Were I to receive an email from you, having read this well intentioned post of yours flaming Dommes for their preferences on their profiles, I'd block you. Since you did indicate on your post that you've only been here 2 weeks, perhaps serious Dommes will overlook the fact that you'll have a lot to learn here about posting positive messages. Good luck with that, and welcome to the boards, young man. TexasMaam

cloudboy -> RE: Why tells subs what to/not to write and what pics to/not to send? (3/17/2007 7:26:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold I would concur to a certain extent, also. It would be great if I didn't feel had to be so detailed in order to cut off most of the crap at the pass. And I feel that the OP has a valid question. However it was not presented as a question. He posted it, in My mind, as advice to Dominas regarding how we are cutting off our own noses by giving instructions or too much information in our profiles. I have corresponded with many boys on a friendship level. But if that is their way to eventually get to Me without following My instructions in the first place, (their own agenda, if you will Smile) that will never come to pass. It has been tried and it has failed. For then I see that as a veiled power struggle from the get go. That is the point I was trying to make clear to the OP. I'm sure you, more than anyone else, will know what's best for your own situation. There's just a school of thought out there that minimalist profiles are "bad," and when I can, I make it known that I don't agree with that. I imagine you must weed out more that a few trojan horses. Its kind of funny, tho, to think of all the conflicting approaches clashing out there on the internet.

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