Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert.


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 5:45:30 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

She'll have a $5,000,000.00 offer from Hefner before May.


This for me, really gets down to the ugly underbelly which is driving the nonsense about Valerie Wilson.  She is a woman doing a job that is 'traditionally' thought of as many men's work.  The only way that can jive with a certain sect of people is if that woman can fit into another prescribed and comfortable stereo type for them.  She must either be an uber-manly butch dyke type, or she must be the archetypal smarty pants, haranguing 'bitch' woman, who of course is not allowed to have even the remotest scent of sexual appeal.  It is okay for Angelina Jolie to play at being an action packed spy chick, because in the end, she will get her clothes off and your cock can stir while she rolls around being well fucked by some alpha male type at the end like ever good little woman wants and needs (to keep her in line), thus pacifying your threatened ego system

But Valerie Wilson doesn't fit into those neat and comfortable niches you have carved out for your insecurity.  She is intelligent, beautiful, sexually appealing, woman who is well spoken and not at all shrill.  She is a highly respected officer, extremely well  thought of by her peers and superiors (even other James Bondian men who you only seem to be able to equate in this position), is highly decorated and trained in her field, was working on a project that has been called 'critically' important (and actually was instrumental in its founding and implementation), and has worked her whole life, in a career which has great potential personal consequences for her and her loved ones, serving our country.

She is a wife and mother and has never once appeared in public as some sort of whore, media whore or 'girl gone wild'.  You see, she doesn't need to use her beauty and sexuality to feel empowered.  And that pisses you guys right off.. or I would suspect, greatly threatens your own self- empowerment and identity structure on some level.

The chances of Valerie Wilson posing nude for money are pretty much zero. 

I find it more than a little disturbing, how many men (and women), having no other means to make her submit to what YOU want and need her to 'be' in your own minds, resort to this sort of precious pseudo-ass patting condescension.

You can try to turn her into a mindless sex object, so that you can then feel that that is all she is really worth, but I do not think your desires will be rewarded.  And as a woman, I am highly alarmed and offended by the overt and perverse sexism which is so rampantly being displayed by so many here.

< Message edited by puella -- 3/17/2007 5:53:40 AM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 6:19:28 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		female spies were used as early as WW2, maybe even earlier

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 6:21:36 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Unlikely Plame will pose nude.    I dont see her doing that.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 6:58:44 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

This has nothing to do with Bill Clinton, Sanity.


You could demand I reveal classified information all day long and I would simply refer you to the authorizing authority for said information.

I took an oath. I have a copy of the form I signed. You dont like it, not my problem.

I wont lie, I would do what Valerie Plame did and indicate that it was CLASSIFIED and I/she are not at liberty to discuss it with ANYBODY not cleared to discuss it with.

Valerie Plame did not lie, Sanity, no matter how much you want to believe this is true.

Sinergy


I thought the default training for handling sensitive materials included the response: "You know we don't talk about Intel stuff, You know I can't confirm or deny anything." Maybe these guys had a hangover that day or something?

I wonder how much other sensitive data has been compromised by a "Friendly Stranger" just asking the right questions some night in a bar?

Not all the Chinese agents are Chinese, btw.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 7:32:42 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
They found the guy who "outted" her and he was a Bush opponent in the State Dept, yet people still want to make the outting out to be something political. Libby lied OK so he lied, he though maybe his boss might have had something to do with it. He pays the price for acting on a bad assumption and lieing to investigators. Thems the breaks.

But the part that bugs me most is the facts of the matter are that the man who outted her to Novak opposed Bush's policy. So it was not a political outting.



(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 12:21:58 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Are you kidding? She's already made a fortune off of this, posing in Vanity Fair, selling her book, and selling MR Valerie Plames' book. If there's a buck to be made, she's there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Unlikely Plame will pose nude.    I dont see her doing that.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 12:57:34 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer


They found the guy who "outted" her and he was a Bush opponent in the State Dept,


Doesn't Armitage work for Bush? And how do you characterize a PNAC Signatory as a "Bush Opponent"?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/17/2007 12:58:16 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 12:57:52 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		To employ a word I have been using more and more... Ironically, Valerie Wilson can not release her book because the CIA will not clear it as it has to much sensitive information about the COVERT operation she was working on.

Why shouldn't she write a book, Sanity?  Because she was outed, she lost her job and income.  She didn't out herself to write a book... and be interviewed by Vanity Fair (which does not pay people for interviews, btw).

Why can this woman do no right, in your opinion, Sanity?  She has done nothing wrong, improper or out of the bounds of her office throughout this entire ordeal.  Why are you trying to make the victim the villain?  You are showing no logic at all and it begs one to ask, what about this woman threatens you to such a degree that you have to try to denigrate her?

< Message edited by puella -- 3/17/2007 1:01:04 PM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 1:02:01 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		She lost her income? Hah! Get real. This has been a huge gold mine for her... and you can't be a Limousine Liberal without your gold mine, can you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

To employ a word I have been using more and more... Ironicly, Valerie Wilson can not releae her book because the CIA will not clear it as it has to much sensative information about the COVERT operatiom she was working on.

Why shouldn't she write a book, Sanity?  Because she was outed, she lost her job and income.  She didn't out herself to write a book... and be interviewed by Vanity Fair (which does not pay people for interviews, btw).

Why

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 1:12:02 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		She lost her job, Sanity.  She did not want to, she did not ask to and she is not happy that she has been forced out of her position.  The fact of the matter is that no matter what book deals she gets, she will never make the kind of wealth that Dick Cheney, George Bush, and Company do... I do not see you being offended by rich Republicans, interestingly enough.

You , me, and she has every right to write a book.  You still do not answer the obvious question as to why you are so vehemently enraged by this woman.

She is the victim in this situation, like it or not.  Your logic is the same as that of a man who blames the woman who has been raped for her attack, instead of her attackers.  It is not only irrational and illogical, it usually points to some deeper issue within that person.


< Message edited by puella -- 3/17/2007 1:14:04 PM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 1:16:46 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		I'm not enraged by her. I'm laughing my ass off at you, her, and the whole ridiculous situation. You're the one who seems a little tense, puella. Ease up a little, you'll enjoy life more.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 1:23:08 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I am not at all tense, Sanity.  That does not mean that I will stop correcting your factual errors.  You can keep throwing your little pebbles at me and it will not make any difference.  I have spent a lot of time watching this case and am more than willing to share the facts of what I have learned to others, as well as to debunk some of the common and insidious lies which get so gratuitously slathered about.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 1:34:42 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		More than losing her job.

ALL THE TAX DOLLARS spent training and developing her and her contacts was thrown down the toilet.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 2:21:30 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Usually, Liberals hate anyone who has anything to do with the CIA. They say they torture people, fund secret wars and prisons... and all kinds of other things they don't trust or understand. And so, why is it that Liberals have fallen so in love with Valerie and Joe?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

More than losing her job.

ALL THE TAX DOLLARS spent training and developing her and her contacts was thrown down the toilet.




< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/17/2007 2:24:03 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 3:27:51 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Usually, Liberals hate anyone who has anything to do with the CIA. They say they torture people, fund secret wars and prisons... and all kinds of other things they don't trust or understand. And so, why is it that Liberals have fallen so in love with Valerie and Joe?



Go ask a Liberal, I'm a Traditional Conservative.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 3:42:52 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Oh yeah - I keep forgetting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Go ask a Liberal, I'm a Traditional Conservative.



(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 4:28:00 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

She lost her income? Hah! Get real. This has been a huge gold mine for her... and you can't be a Limousine Liberal without your gold mine, can you.

quote:



Sanity:
Perhaps you could tell us just where this alleged gold mine is?
If Democrats hate the CIA how did she get a job there?
You seem to be lacking a certain amount of sanity  and logic in your post.
thompson

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 4:40:06 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer


They found the guy who "outted" her and he was a Bush opponent in the State Dept,


Doesn't Armitage work for Bush? And how do you characterize a PNAC Signatory as a "Bush Opponent"?




How many Buerocrates can we each name that while they officially work for the executive office are counter to the administration on policy matters?
Plame worked for Bush as well but nobody would claim she was on board with Bush on Iraq.

Armitage was not a front runner on the issue in fact he is on record as holding the same possition as Powell held before the UN testamony.
Armitage's record on the US going in at that specific time places him in the against going in camp.


Edted to add sources for my assertion that Armitage was counter to Bush internally on the matter.

Los Angeles Times columnist Jonah Goldberg similarly concluded in his August 31 column: "[T]he Bush-bashers have lost credibility. The most delicious example came this week when it was finally revealed that Colin Powell's oak-necked major-domo Richard Armitage -- and not some star chamber neocon -- "outed" Valerie Plame, the spousal prop of Washington's biggest ham, Joe Wilson. Now it turns out that instead of "Bush blows CIA agent's cover to silence a brave dissenter" -- as Wilson practices saying into the mirror every morning -- the story is, "One Bush enemy inadvertently taken out by another's friendly fire." From the August 30 edition of The Wall Street Journal: From its very start, the ballyhooed case of who leaked the name of CIA analyst Valerie Plame to columnist Robert Novak has been drenched in partisan politics and media hypocrisy. The more we learn, however, the more it also reveals about the internal dysfunction of the Bush Administration and the lack of loyalty among some of its most senior officials. The latest news is that the Bush official who first disclosed Ms. Plame's identity was none other than former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. According to a new book by liberal journalists David Corn and Michael Isikoff, Mr. Armitage was Mr. Novak's primary source for his now famous column of July 14, 2003, that first publicly revealed Ms. Plame's CIA pedigree. In other words, the leaker wasn't Karl Rove or Scooter Libby or anyone else in the White House who has been accused of running a conspiracy against Ms. Plame as revenge for her husband Joe Wilson's false accusations against the White House's case for war with Iraq. So what have the last three years been all about anyway? Political opportunism and internal score-settling, among other things. Mr. Armitage, recall, was part of Colin Powell's team at State and well known as an internal Administration opponent of the "neo-cons" who supported the ouster of Saddam Hussein. The book alleges that Mr. Armitage knew as early as October 2003 that he was Mr. Novak's prime source, yet he kept quiet about it even as his colleagues in the Administration were dragged through years of criminal investigation and media accusations as the possible leaker. Even now Mr. Armitage hasn't admitted to being the leaker, though doing so would help to clarify several things about the case. For starters, fessing up would put to rest the conspiracy theories once and for all. Bush opponents have continued to promote this myth, with Mr. Wilson writing in June 2004 that "the conspiracy to destroy us was most likely conceived -- and carried out -- within the office of the vice president of the United States." Not a word of that was true. Mr. Novak hasn't himself confirmed that Mr. Armitage was his primary source, since Mr. Armitage hasn't yet given him leave to do so. But Mr. Novak has written that his source was not a "partisan gunslinger," and the columnist has also said that he himself put in the call to Mr. Rove to confirm what he'd first heard from his main source (presumably Mr. Armitage). The White House, in short, was not engaged in any campaign to "out" Ms. Plame. All of this matters because it also casts doubt on the thoroughness and fairness of special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald's probe that began in December 2003. The prosecutor never did indict anyone for leaking Ms. Plame's name, though this was supposedly the act of "treason" that triggered the political clamor for a probe. Instead, he has indicted Mr. Libby for perjury and obstruction of justice.


< Message edited by Archer -- 3/17/2007 4:57:43 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 5:41:27 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

I look at who the guy hangs out with, and have trouble believing he's an enemy of the administration.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. - 3/17/2007 5:46:10 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I thought the default training for handling sensitive materials included the response: "You know we don't talk about Intel stuff, You know I can't confirm or deny anything." Maybe these guys had a hangover that day or something?



Not what I remember.

I was simply told to not talk about my clearances, the name or operation of the particular clearance organization (there are a lot in the SCIF world (see the Rolling Stone interview with Donald Rumsfeld for a definition about what that means)) in the government, or anything I did at work.

Before the jingoistic nitwits try to jump down my throat about stating I had a clearance, I have simply talked about having clearances and working on some aerospaz project in the 1980s and 1990s.

My approach was to simply change the subject or not even bring it up in the first place.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Ruh, Roh. Valerie Plame Wilson WAS Covert. Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094