RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (Full Version)

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Sinergy -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/24/2007 6:54:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The non performance is an issue. These attorneys work for this administration and were not prosecuting certain cases. They were not doing the job this administration wanted them to do. If they think they were slandered they should sue. They know the law, they are lawyers and will not do so.


Which cases were they not prosecuting?

Sinergy

p.s. weird that a person who was given a commendation for job performance would then be fired for non-performance.




farglebargle -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/24/2007 7:26:49 PM)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003615329_mckay13m.html

quote:


McKay insists that top prosecutors in his office and agents from the FBI conducted a "very active" review of allegations of fraud during the election but filed no charges and did not convene a federal grand jury because "we never found any evidence of criminal conduct."

McKay detailed the work of his office in a recent interview. He spoke out because he believed Republican supporters of Dino Rossi, still bitter over his narrow loss to Democrat Christine Gregoire, continue to falsely portray him and his office as indifferent to allegations of electoral fraud.

McKay also wanted to make it clear that he pressed ahead with a preliminary investigation, despite the hesitation of Craig Donsanto, the longtime chief of the Election Crimes branch of the Department of Justice, who ultimately concurred with McKay that no federal crimes had been committed in the election.


So, his own boss back in Washington City is in on the conspiracy?





Transdromeda -> RE: latest emails relating to the firings of U.S.RE: George Bush's Watergate and the numerous cover-ups. (3/25/2007 9:09:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

bush and nixon in the same post?     egads.

Last night, the Justice Department released the latest emails relating to the firings of U.S. Attorneys. They appear to further implicate Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales in the affair.

Read the Karl Rove email
 
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/doj/smpsnwh105emails.html

actual copy of it

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©



what affair??? the president has the right to fire any us attourny he wants to at any time for any reason like Clinton firing all 93 attorneys.  That is his power according to the constitution.  He has the right to have his attourneys on board with his priorities.  there is no scandal here.  His mistake is trying to explain something that needs no explanation.  The same way he can fire any of his cabinet or generals.




Transdromeda -> RE: George Bush's Watergate and the numerous cover-ups. (3/25/2007 9:13:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

bush and nixon in the same post?     egads.

i propose the matter is more like TREASION.

bush standing next to nixon elevated bush.    TREASON!

he acts like a king. but worse

treason?!! i dont think there is anything one can do anymore to be considered guilty of treason.  Not leaking classified documents,  not sloppily copying, smuggling, and destroying governement documents,  




Transdromeda -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:24:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

The last time I was aware Congress is to represent the people ...where as the President is Commander in Chief....many versus one in My book.



I agree with everything you state except this, SirDiscipliner69.

He is not my Commander In Chief.  I have not sworn an oath to serve in the US military.  I am not under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. 

He is their Commander in Chief, not mine.  I refer to him as Mr. President while he is in office.

I find it amusing as hell that he insists on referring to himself as my commander in chief, and Faux News parrots it like lemmings charging the sea.

Sinergy

he doesnt have to be your commander in cheif.  He is THE commander in cheif.  that is his number one duty- as well as responsible for dealing with foreign dignitaries something that congress and former presidents usurp all the time.  At one time in history we might have considered that treason escpecially when those said persons were involved dealing with our stated enemies.




Transdromeda -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:31:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


Again ... if there is no basis in a crime ... then there is no reason for an "investigation"


Tell that to Irve Libby, I'm sure he'll be comforted.


ahhh ... so ... you admit that the entire "Plame fiasco" was simply a political investigation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

LYING is a crime. Period. The Administration didn't HAVE TO LIE about the reasons behind their removals.


FB, please, point out to me exactly where "lying" is a crime.  If simply lying was a crime, every politician in Washington should be in jail.

FirmKY

lying is a crime........except when your lying to a grand jury, then it doesnt matter if your lying about oral sex!!!!




farglebargle -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:34:06 AM)

Sure, BUSH *can* remove and USA at any time, for any reason.

He cannot LIE about why he did it, however, as he did in this case.

When he LIES, he breaks the trust given to him by The People, and is then UNWORTHY to continue to hold office.

SOME of us actually care about "HONESTY AND INTEGRITY IN THE WHITE HOUSE", to shamelessly appropriate a phrase.





Transdromeda -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:35:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
"Lying" per se isn't illegal.

FirmKY



You are exactly correct.

The crime is referred to as "perjury"

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001621----000-.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/perjury

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury

And for all you lap-dog Clinton haters

http://www.slate.com/id/1002007/

Sinergy

p.s.  Wasnt Slick Willie impeached for the crime of lying to Congress?

obviously he wasnt impeached or he would have left office!




Stunning -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:38:16 AM)

Impeachment is only the trial in Congress. Clinton was impeached. He was found not guilty, somehow, despite lying under oath.

And people, you can't impeach an official just because you don't like his decisions. Do some research on "political questions" and "separation of powers" before you skin your ignorance.




Transdromeda -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:42:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
"Lying" per se isn't illegal.

FirmKY



You are exactly correct.

The crime is referred to as "perjury"

[ Excessively long links deleted]

And for all you lap-dog Clinton haters

http://www.slate.com/id/1002007/

Sinergy

p.s.  Wasnt Slick Willie impeached for the crime of lying to Congress?


Perjury: Lying under oath about a material matter.

That's still not saying that "lying" is illegal, sorry.

FirmKY



Thank you for answering the question as to why Monkeyboy wont allow anybody who works for him to testify.

I am curious whether lying to Congress and the UN about untruths relating to Iraq qualifies as testifying under oath.

Monkeyboy did take an oath to protect the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.  Would lying to Congress and putting our soldiers in harms way qualify as testifying under oath?

Sinergy



your playing time machine politics.   information that we thought was true that we now believe may have been false (or maybe the wmds got shipped to syria)  and since we supported and acted on what was believed to be true but now can be seen another way.  that is lying??????? only if bush knew what he didnt know.  the thing about intelligence is you can have many soarces of a false thing and only one for a true thing. how do you tell the difference?




lockedaway -> RE: George Bush's Watergate and the numerous cover-ups. (3/25/2007 9:47:10 AM)

Hahahahahah....Bush acts like a King?  God...that is hysterical.  At least he doesn't act like a King on crack...you know...like Clinton.  Lemme see 1) sexually harassing Paula Jones; 2) the affair with Jennifer Flowers; 3) using the Arkansas State Police to proposition girls and bring them back to him; 4) groping Kathleen Wiley against her will while she was there to talk about her despondent husband who (i think) committed suicide that same day; 5) the alleged rape of Juanita Broderick--a married, Van Buren (pop. 1,500) elementary school teacher; 6) spooging on Monica Lewinsky's dress and then trying to compel perjury, witness tampering and tampering with evidence; 7) giving cold water reactors to No. Korea; 8) failing to take custody of Osama Bin Laden when offered by the Sudan in '96; 9) failing to act on terrific intel and assinating Osama in '98; 10) further encouraging the wall of separation with respect to information sharing between the CIA and the FBI, especially with Jamie Garrelik (sp?); 11) allowing Chinese businessmen to sleep in Lincoln's bedroom in exchange for soft campaign money, 12) doing dozens of "white house coffees" for soft campaign money;  authorizing a U.S. peace keeping force to do a "snatch and grab" of Somali war lords which led to the infamous Black Hawk Down incident, and 13) having the ignominious honor of being the ONLY President in U.S. history to be suspended from the practice of law in his home state for 5 years.  I dunno...Bush doesn't look like such a bad guy in comparison.

What has Bush done, exactly?  We invaded Afghanistan to try to destroy the Taliban after the occurrence of the worst single attack on U.S. soil in our nation's history.  That seemed reasonable.  We invaded Iraq after repeated violations of U.N. resolutions, the violation of any one of which was a justification for intervention (especially firing at U.S. planes...a big No No). That seemed reasonable.  Part of his justification was the presence of WMDs which the entire world thought he possessed and did (read "War on America" by Laurie Mylroi, expert on Iraq to Slick Willy during his administration).  But assuming Sadaam didn't have WMDs, the Brits thought he did, both Clintons thought he did, France thought he did, John Kerry thought he did, John McCain thought he did, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Anyway....hey, if anyone is up for it, run a search on how many negative books have been written by former Nixon staffers about their boss vs. how many have been written about Bush by his former staffers vs. how many have been written about Clinton by HIS former staffers.  Would anyone like to venture a guess who has, so far, had the highest number of negative books written about him by his own, hand picked, former staff members????     [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m21.gif[/image]




Transdromeda -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:51:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I am not emotionally invested in whether you roll around on the floor, or whether you consider your submissive to be the brains of your operation. 

Your second assignment is to research the links given in those 25 points to verify the truth or falsehood of each one.

For me, I always look forward to learning new things.  Enjoy your research.


No further research needed.

Your "25 Points" are, on their face, almost all absurb, and obviously written by someone who hasn't got a clue.

There are only a few that might - if true - even be considered "impeachable" or "lies".

Feel free to hide in embarrassment.

FirmKY


there is so much wrong with those 25 points i cant begin to tackle them at this moment.  one point i will make is any republican who gets elected president in any future election will be "elected under dubious circumstances"  even if they win by three milion votes.




farglebargle -> RE: George Bush's Watergate and the numerous cover-ups. (3/25/2007 9:53:07 AM)

quote:


What has Bush done, exactly?


Broke the Law. Specifically 18 USC 371. That's a felony.





FirmhandKY -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:54:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003615329_mckay13m.html

quote:


McKay insists that top prosecutors in his office and agents from the FBI conducted a "very active" review of allegations of fraud during the election but filed no charges and did not convene a federal grand jury because "we never found any evidence of criminal conduct."

McKay detailed the work of his office in a recent interview. He spoke out because he believed Republican supporters of Dino Rossi, still bitter over his narrow loss to Democrat Christine Gregoire, continue to falsely portray him and his office as indifferent to allegations of electoral fraud.

McKay also wanted to make it clear that he pressed ahead with a preliminary investigation, despite the hesitation of Craig Donsanto, the longtime chief of the Election Crimes branch of the Department of Justice, who ultimately concurred with McKay that no federal crimes had been committed in the election.


So, his own boss back in Washington City is in on the conspiracy?


McKay ...

The headline to the story you are referencing, FB is this:

McKay "stunned" by report on Bush

Let's see what McKay considers "stunning":

McKay said one of the first actions he took on the 2004 race came in response to a request from one of his harshest critics.

Tom McCabe, executive vice president of the Building Industry Association of Washington (BIAW), contacted McKay's office in late 2004 or early 2005, alleging he had evidence of forged signatures on absentee ballots cast for Gregoire.

After talking to McCabe, McKay said, he called Mark Ferbrache, supervisory special agent at the FBI, and asked him to assign Special Agent Joe Quinn to review McCabe's evidence.

McCabe confirms he received a phone call from Quinn a few days later, and McCabe sent him documents supporting his forgery allegations.

But McCabe remains dissatisfied with Quinn's response.

"[Quinn] seemed distracted, almost bothered that he was talking to me about it," McCabe said. "He never instituted an investigation; no one was ever questioned.

"It started me wondering whether the U.S. Attorney was doing his job," McCabe said.

McCabe subsequently made repeated calls on the White House to fire McKay.


And then there is this report:

Voter Fraud: A Tough Crime to Prove


John McKay, the former U.S. attorney in Seattle, said he was accused of mishandling voter fraud when he interviewed at the White House for a federal judgeship. The specific question: why he had mishandled the investigations into voter fraud connected to Washington's very close 2004 gubernatorial election. That election was won by a Democrat.

He did not get the appointment. Three months later, he was terminated.

Seems to me, he had plenty of warning that his bosses might not be too happy with his performance.  Yet ... he is "stunned".  Or, at least, that makes for a good sound bite, and headline doesn't it?

Lets talk about the Washington State election, shall we?

The Washington election was very, very close.  Finally, the Dem was certified as winning with 129 votes.

If there were irregularities and votes counted of people who were dead, felons who could not legally vote, questions about duplicate voting of some people, inconsistent records of the number of ballots submitted, and the number of ballots counted that totaled over 129 votes, does the possibility that the Dems really shouldn't have won the election cause you to rethink things?

Reading McKay's words, he seems to be saying that yes, there were irregularities, but he didn't think that they were intentional, therefore no fraud occurred.  Since no fraud occurred, then he wasn't going to investigate:


McKay insists that top prosecutors in his office and agents from the FBI conducted a "very active" review of allegations of fraud during the election but filed no charges and did not convene a federal grand jury because "we never found any evidence of criminal conduct."

But ... this doesn't mean that the election went the way that the people voted, now does it?

Irregularities in the election results:

Dead voted in governor's race


At least eight people who died well before the November general election were credited with voting in King County, raising new questions about the integrity of the vote total in the narrow governor's race, a Seattle Post-Intelligencer review has found

The evidence of votes from dead people is the latest example of flaws in an election already rocked by misplaced votes and allegations that there were thousands more votes counted than actual voters.

County officials say they are investigating the cases pointed out by the P-I. "These are not indications of fraud," said Bill Huennekens, King County's elections supervisor. "Fraud is a concerted effort to change an election."

The P-I review found eight people who died weeks before absentee ballots were mailed out, between Oct. 13 and 15, but were credited with voting in King County. Among them was an 81-year-old Seattle woman who died in August but is recorded as having voted at the polls.


No evidence of election crimes?


Today's Seattle Times reports that John McKay insists that there was no evidence of election crimes in Washington's November 2004 election. Granted, he appears to have relied solely on what the Republican legal team presented in the contest trial. And we now know that King County sandbagged discovery requests and stonewalled public records requests, and the schedule simply didn't permit the litigants to force King County to produce all of the evidence in time for the trial. Here is a summary of what I've found in the 21 months after the trial ended:

Category of suspected illegal vote                                                      Expected     Documented
Provisional ballots counted from unregistered "fatal pend" voter                 170            170
Provisional ballots counted from other unregistered voters                         60            32
Federal write-in ballot counted from unregistered voter who
had not requested a ballot by the deadline                                             113            113
Two absentee ballots counted from the same voter                                 80            30
Absentee ballot and provisional ballot counted from the same voter             50            11
In-state absentee ballots postmarked after election day (Nov. 2)                 >5            5
Total suspected illegal votes                                                                             478            361

     
Sounds to me like McKay simply decided not to get involved. He had the ability to ask for a grand jury in order to determine if the election went the way that it legally was suppose to.  He chose not too.  The President chose to dismiss him for failing to make the effort to determine the full truth.

Sometimes, even US Attorney's get caught up in local politics.  Who knows McKay's motivations?  But, it doesn't really matter.  He lost the confidence of the Administration for his performance, or lack thereof.  If you lose the confidence of your boss, then you are no longer serving "at the pleasure of the President."  And since the entire basis of your appointment is that you are "serving at the pleasure of the President", is it not perfectly  legitimate to lose the job that is dependent on it?

FirmKY




farglebargle -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 9:57:02 AM)

So, you're saying the Local office of the FBI, AND McKay's superiors in Washington City were both in on McKay's supposed suppression of the investigation?

Because, as you well know, the FBI is the one doing the legwork, and he reported pretty much daily to the guys in the FBI HQ Elections Crime office.

They're in on it, too?

It's a VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY, you're saying? McKay being a Republican...

And another thing, since Tony Snow is on record that Bush NEVER WAS CONSULTED ABOUT THE REMOVALS, *exactly* how were they removed BY THE PRESIDENT?





Transdromeda -> RE: If you remember your history th election was stolen from us...we did not really elect him...and as f (3/25/2007 10:03:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seatonstomb

You have only yourselves to blame for electing him once after his brother fixed it for him the first time. We(Brits) are guilty of electing American Puppet PM like Blair and Thatcher.


If you remember your history th election was stolen from us...we did not really elect him...and as far as the Brits are concerned who really killed Diana?


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


the election was not stolen. the ballots were designed and approved by democrats.  if the people voting knew there was a problem with their vote they would have revoted.  the butterfly ballot has been used succesfully in thousands of other precints and elections.  I used it once i just made sure the hole and the line went to the person i meant it to and that was before 2000 i was smart enough to check that.   The supreme court stepped in because there was a standard way of interpreting ballots that the florida supreme court was trying to change in the middle of an election.  If that was allowed to stand no future election would be safe from changing rules and every election would end up in court.   The democrats tried to deny the absentee military ballots from being included and when Gore got his recounts he didnt recount the whole state just the counties that would be beneficial to him.  which is an illegal recount.  later there were found errors in bushs favor in counties favorable to him which erros in Gore's favor didnt offset.  




farglebargle -> RE: If you remember your history th election was stolen from us...we did not really elect him...and (3/25/2007 10:07:25 AM)

quote:


the election was not stolen


EVERY election is stolen.

NO election meets the proper standards for an independent audit.

It's a joke.





Transdromeda -> RE: If you remember your history th election was stolen from us...we did not really elect him...and (3/25/2007 10:08:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Could someone explain something to me. Why was it ok for Bill Clinton to fire all 93 A G's when he took office, but it is wrong for George Bush to fire 8 of 93  A G's six years into his term ? He felt they weren't doing the job and they were let go. They do serve this administration, or did.. This has happened since George Washington was President...It is not illegal and it certainly is not a scandal.


Bush was trying to be too nice, thats always been his problem, im glad hes saying gonzalos is not leaving and that no one is gonna testify under oath so a liberal prosecutor can trip someone up into lying under oath for something thats not a crime not under oath.




Transdromeda -> RE: If you remember your history th election was stolen from us...we did not really elect him...and (3/25/2007 10:12:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Could someone explain something to me. Why was it ok for Bill Clinton to fire all 93 A G's when he took office, but it is wrong for George Bush to fire 8 of 93


As we're learning from the Paperwork, George Bush didn't Fire the 8 USAs. And that may be yet another problem. If the USAs serve at his pleasure, then only he can ask them to go, and it looks like he didn't even delegate the responsibility, he DID NOT KNOW ABOUT IT AT ALL ( according to Tony Snow )...

That aside. It's not asking the USAs to go. It's LYING about their performance records, in some lame attempt to spin ASKING them to go.

*IF* Bush *had* ONLY asked them to go, and not chose to lie about them not being up to performance expectations, this wouldn't be an issue.

quote:


A G's six years into his term ? He felt they weren't doing the job and they were let go. They do serve this administration, or did.. This has happened since George Washington was President...It is not illegal and it certainly is not a scandal.


However, as John Ashcroft pointed out on numerous occasions, the USA's oath is NOT to the President, it is to the Constitution. We have, from what I gather, TWO cases where USAs investigating crimes allegedly committed by "Loyal Bushies" ( Friends Of Jack Abrhamoff in one, and Alberto Gonzales in the other ) were obstructed along the way.

Obstruction of Justice is a crime.

Lying is a crime. ( under 18 USC 1001, 18 USC 371, et. al. )

I don't see where the Constitution delegates to anyone the authority to LIE.


i see....if i have an opinion that someone is underperforming or not doing the job then im lying if you have a different opinion! even if im the one who is in charge of hiring and firing that person.




RacerJim -> RE: What is George Bush hiding?????? Can you say "Impeach"? (3/25/2007 10:12:41 AM)

Actually, according to the U.S. Constitution, U.S. Attorneys "...serve at his [the President's] discretion..." rather than at his pleasure. The word "discretion" means not only that the President can fire U.S. Attorneys for any reason/no reason whatsoever but also do it secretely.

Therefore, Congress has no Constitutional authority/right whatsoever to investigate the firing of U.S. Attorneys and therefore Congress committed a violation of the U.S. Constitution when it demanded that Attorney General Gonzales testify under oath about what he knew about the firings.




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