quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Expecting people to understand and accept your position, when you say things that are not true, is not realistic. Even less realistic is to expect people to understand and accept your position, when you attempt to spin and deflect, when you say something that isn't true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Oh Sanity.. read my post again.  I never said that the majority of the country came out to protest.  I said the protesters numbers, for and against, are pretty representative of how our nation breaks down on the issue (in terms of numbers for and against).  Statistically speaking there are a far greater amount of our citizens against the current occupation than are for it, that also was representative in the protests this weekend in the US.

"The survey shows Americans want to win in Iraq, and that they understand Iraq is the central point in the war against terrorism and they can support a U.S. strategy aimed at achieving victory," said Neil Newhouse, a partner in POS. "The idea of pulling back from Iraq is not where the majority of Americans are."

    * By a 53 percent - 46 percent margin, respondents surveyed said that "Democrats are going too far, too fast in pressing the President to withdraw troops from Iraq."

    * By identical 57 percent - 41 percent margins, voters agreed with these statements: "I support finishing the job in Iraq, that is, keeping the troops there until the Iraqi government can maintain control and provide security" and "the Iraqi war is a key part of the global war on terrorism."

    * Also, by a 56 percent - 43 percent margin, voters agreed that "even if they have concerns about his war policies, Americans should stand behind the President in Iraq because we are at war."

    * While the survey shows voters believe (60 percent- 34 percent) that Iraq will never become a stable democracy, they still disagree that victory in Iraq ("creating a young, but stable democracy and reducing the threat of terrorism at home") is no longer possible. Fifty-three percent say it's still possible, while 43 percent disagree.

    * By a wide 74 percent - 25 percent margin, voters disagree with the notion that "I don't really care what happens in Iraq after the U.S. leaves, I just want the troops brought home."

"How Americans view the war does not line up with the partisan messages or actions coming out of Washington," said Davis Lundy, president of The Moriah Group. "There are still a majority of Americans out there who want to support the President and a focused effort to define and achieve victory."

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

So what ... that isn't even the point.
 
Meatcleaver said "NOT ONE" ... as in none ... as in less than one ... exclusive of all ... when you look around, the room is fucking empty.
 
The statement is wrong, period.

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Where is NortherGent? 

It is true caitlyn.  I was also at the million man march in London before the war...  There are a lot of really great programs on BBC, one of them is QuestionTime.  The audience members, not screened, get to ask question of a panel of guests (There is is usually one major player from each of the three political parties, a comedian, and an academic or two).  Watching Question Time for the year before and after the initial invading, coupled with some shows Tony Blair voluntarily did himself where citizens could question him and engage in something of a debate... it was brutal.  The majority of the people in the UK were not for the invasion of Iraq.  Tony Blair went against the will of the people, and even many of his own party.  I will do a bit of a search for some of the more pertient events I can remember off the top of my head and post them to you.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/14/bush.britain.reut/index.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Cutting a long story short, something like 75% of Britons (assuming polls are a fair representation of a nation's mood) supported an invasion providing two key conditions were in place a) there was evidence that WMDs existed b) it was backed by the United Nations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Let me know when you finally decide to come over to the "dark side".  It's much calmer and rational over here. 

I still have that problem with believing that war should be an absolute last resort, rather than a "Them Aaaaaarabs made a monkey out of my Daddy, so lets get 'em. (and their oil too, while we're at it)"

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I still have that problem with believing that war should be an absolute last resort, rather than a "Them Aaaaaarabs made a monkey out of my Daddy, so lets get 'em. (and their oil too, while we're at it)"

quote:

Read the raw data in pdf format.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Oh Sanity.. read my post again.  I never said that the majority of the country came out to protest.  I said the protesters numbers, for and against, are pretty representative of how our nation breaks down on the issue (in terms of numbers for and against).  Statistically speaking there are a far greater amount of our citizens against the current occupation than are for it, that also was representative in the protests this weekend in the US.

AMERICANS WANT TO WIN IN IRAQ NATIONAL SURVEY SAYS:

"The survey shows Americans want to win in Iraq, and that they understand Iraq is the central point in the war against terrorism and they can support a U.S. strategy aimed at achieving victory," said Neil Newhouse, a partner in POS. "The idea of pulling back from Iraq is not where the majority of Americans are."

FirmKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Hi NorthernGent...

Thank you!

And when the invasion took place without those two conditions being met, I seem to remember that the climate was decidedly anti Blair.  Correct?  And that it got worse and worse as everything progressed?