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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 12:52:31 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You must have forgotten, Valerie Plame testified that her and Joe are Democrats, and therefore heavily biased.



Please clarify how their Democratic bias is even remotely relevant to documents being considered forgeries by almost everybody, and then used by Monkeyboy as a justification to invade Iraq regardless?

Sinergy


That is why I started this thread... it is illogical to attack someone for being partisan because they bring forth facts that you do not like.... It reminds me of that defense attorney saying:

quote:

My dog doesn't bite people. He'svery docile; and  he's always tied up, so he couldn't have been loose to cross the street to bite Bob; and furthermore, your honor, I don't even have a dog
.
 
It just seems some people will throw any old thing up against the wall when they are defending the indefensible.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 3/19/2007 12:53:25 PM >


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 12:57:18 PM   
luckydog1


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Julia, now you are simply lying.  The Nigerians were approached and rebuffed the Iraqis, that is not based on the forgery in any way shape or form.  It was based on actually being approached.  This is waht Wilson learned on his trip.  The war was not based on this inncident alone.  This was simply one piece of evidence that Saddam was not complying with the sanctions, not the only one.  Just say it clearly Julia, you did not care if Saddam complied with the sanctions or not.  You do not care if he attempted to get Uranium, as long as he was not sucessfull that specific time.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 12:58:37 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

your third bullet point, which I mentioned earlier.  "June 1999 – Niger ’s former prime minister Ibrahim Mayaki meets with an Iraqi delegation wanting to discuss “expanding commercial relations.” Mayaki interprets this as an interest in uranium, Niger ’s main export, and later tells Wilson that he did not discuss it because Iraq remained under UN trade sanctions. (Senate Intelligence Cmte., Iraq 43-44, July 2004). "


The two parties didn't even discuss uranium - interpretation is not evidence.

As it stands, the best the authorities could do was a forged document discredited within a minute by a respected, neutral source. How does this fit with your argument?

Also, can you advance on the forged document and the interpretation of a conversation that never took place, or is this the extent of the evidence?

_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 1:10:54 PM   
luckydog1


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NG, this factoid has nothing to do with the Forgery, nothing at all.  I see why you want to combine the 2, and it is not for reasons of honesty or truth.  Nigeria's Foriegn Prime minister ,Mayaki, had the conversation with the Iraqi delegation, and told Wilson about it.  Why do you pretend the conversation never took place?  Its funny how when Wilsons' testimony does not back your side, he becomes a liar. 

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 1:12:53 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Julia, now you are simply lying.  The Nigerians were approached and rebuffed the Iraqis, that is not based on the forgery in any way shape or form.  It was based on actually being approached.  This is waht Wilson learned on his trip.  The war was not based on this inncident alone.  This was simply one piece of evidence that Saddam was not complying with the sanctions, not the only one.  Just say it clearly Julia, you did not care if Saddam complied with the sanctions or not.  You do not care if he attempted to get Uranium, as long as he was not sucessfull that specific time.


I am asking for information that you are not providing. I am rather weary of being called a liar, please put up your sources.

Also, what does this have to do with why Valerie Plame was outed? Nothing

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 1:34:07 PM   
luckydog1


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My source is the third bullet point you posted.

What does this have to do with Richard Armitage outing Valerie Plame?  Absolutly nothing.  I wonder why you pretend it does

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 1:36:18 PM   
luckydog1


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the bullet does specify, Mayaki, the Nigerian Foriegn Prime minister says he was approached by Iraqis, trying to get more Uranium from him.  Wilson found it credible enough to report.

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 1:44:38 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

My source is the third bullet point you posted.

What does this have to do with Richard Armitage outing Valerie Plame?  Absolutly nothing.  I wonder why you pretend it does


The bullet I quoted stated that an official stated something, it is not proof of anything other than an official stated it. I mean what is the documented proof that was this official stated was accurate? The bullet just repeats what someone else stated.


This thread is about Valerie Plame, I started the thread, it has a timeline of events surrounding her husband's input and her outing by the Bush Admin... please keep up with the topic instead of grasping at straw men.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 3/19/2007 1:45:11 PM >


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 2:00:59 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

If you have no problem with saddam attempting to get Uranium illegally,  just say so.


What is the evidence of him seeking uranium? I mean what documentation is there for this? Someone said so? The bullet that you refer to does not specify.

from your time line.. exerpt from the state of the union address

The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide
 
from the BBC
Officially, no uranium at all should now be leaving the country. But the United Nations has reported that in the past six years more than 50 cases of smuggled uranium have been seized in Congo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/6401491.stm
 
Maybe Joe was right and he didnt find evidence in Niger. But it looks like there may be evidence that the president was right in his address as the Congo is still in Africa.
Also..
The Democratic Republic of Congo has emerged as the likeliest target of Iraq's attempts to secure uranium for its nuclear weapons programme, after Britain gave warning that Saddam Hussein has sought "significant quantities" of the radioactive metal somewhere in Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/29/wirq329.xml






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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 2:20:09 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide
 


The British government were unable to produce any proof to support their claims. All they were able to put forward was a forged document. British whitehall officials have since acknowledge it was forged.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4
 
from the BBC
Officially, no uranium at all should now be leaving the country. But the United Nations has reported that in the past six years more than 50 cases of smuggled uranium have been seized in Congo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/6401491.stm
 
Maybe Joe was right and he didnt find evidence in Niger. But it looks like there may be evidence that the president was right in his address as the Congo is still in Africa.



There is no mention of any link to Iraq in the above BBC article.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Also..
The Democratic Republic of Congo has emerged as the likeliest target of Iraq's attempts to secure uranium for its nuclear weapons programme, after Britain gave warning that Saddam Hussein has sought "significant quantities" of the radioactive metal somewhere in Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/29/wirq329.xml



This is simply repeating the claims of the British government who, when asked for proof to support their case, presented a forged document to parliament.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 2:51:06 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide
 


The British government were unable to produce any proof to support their claims. All they were able to put forward was a forged document. British whitehall officials have since acknowledge it was forged.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4
 
from the BBC
Officially, no uranium at all should now be leaving the country. But the United Nations has reported that in the past six years more than 50 cases of smuggled uranium have been seized in Congo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/6401491.stm
 
Maybe Joe was right and he didnt find evidence in Niger. But it looks like there may be evidence that the president was right in his address as the Congo is still in Africa.



There is no mention of any link to Iraq in the above BBC article.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Also..
The Democratic Republic of Congo has emerged as the likeliest target of Iraq's attempts to secure uranium for its nuclear weapons programme, after Britain gave warning that Saddam Hussein has sought "significant quantities" of the radioactive metal somewhere in Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/29/wirq329.xml



This is simply repeating the claims of the British government who, when asked for proof to support their case, presented a forged document to parliament.

I will happily concede that I do not posses a purchase order from Saddam requisitioning uranium.
But The conditions in some of the African nations, such as the Congo and Tanzinia, would be readily exploited by a man like Saddam. They were mining and selling uranium outside of UN controls, unless you dispute this..
Police in Tanzania say they have seized 110kg of suspected uranium and arrested five people, including a national of the Democratic Republic of Congo.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2477367.stm
Now that was in 2002 and it appears that the conditions for smuggling have been present for several years.

They are selling this material to someone.
Henri Boshoff, a military analyst at the Institute for Security Studies in the South African capital Pretoria, said that unrest in the Congo made it the most likely African country to have been targeted by Iraq.
"The Congo has virtually no border or airspace security; there is virtually no control over movement," he said. "If anyone had enough money and determination I think they could get uranium, although the risks of being caught are enormous."
 
As I imagine most of the posters here do not have access to classified documents and source materials, we are at a disadvantage to really knowing what the scope and intent of nations like Iraq are up to. But it doesnt take much to see the potential for Iraq to get uranium from Africa.

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 2:53:16 PM   
farglebargle


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Capability does not imply Intent.


_____________________________

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 2:57:29 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Capability does not imply Intent.


His intent was made clear by his history..
Unless  your saying that Iraq/ Saddam had no intent to posses WMDs, in particular nuclear or dirty bombs.

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 3:06:36 PM   
farglebargle


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He didn't even have the Capability. How could he have the intent?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 3:19:42 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide
 


The British government were unable to produce any proof to support their claims. All they were able to put forward was a forged document. British whitehall officials have since acknowledge it was forged.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4
 
from the BBC
Officially, no uranium at all should now be leaving the country. But the United Nations has reported that in the past six years more than 50 cases of smuggled uranium have been seized in Congo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/6401491.stm
 
Maybe Joe was right and he didnt find evidence in Niger. But it looks like there may be evidence that the president was right in his address as the Congo is still in Africa.



There is no mention of any link to Iraq in the above BBC article.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Also..
The Democratic Republic of Congo has emerged as the likeliest target of Iraq's attempts to secure uranium for its nuclear weapons programme, after Britain gave warning that Saddam Hussein has sought "significant quantities" of the radioactive metal somewhere in Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/29/wirq329.xml



This is simply repeating the claims of the British government who, when asked for proof to support their case, presented a forged document to parliament.

I will happily concede that I do not posses a purchase order from Saddam requisitioning uranium.
But The conditions in some of the African nations, such as the Congo and Tanzinia, would be readily exploited by a man like Saddam. They were mining and selling uranium outside of UN controls, unless you dispute this..
Police in Tanzania say they have seized 110kg of suspected uranium and arrested five people, including a national of the Democratic Republic of Congo.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2477367.stm
Now that was in 2002 and it appears that the conditions for smuggling have been present for several years.

They are selling this material to someone.
Henri Boshoff, a military analyst at the Institute for Security Studies in the South African capital Pretoria, said that unrest in the Congo made it the most likely African country to have been targeted by Iraq.
"The Congo has virtually no border or airspace security; there is virtually no control over movement," he said. "If anyone had enough money and determination I think they could get uranium, although the risks of being caught are enormous."
 
As I imagine most of the posters here do not have access to classified documents and source materials, we are at a disadvantage to really knowing what the scope and intent of nations like Iraq are up to. But it doesnt take much to see the potential for Iraq to get uranium from Africa.



The above sounds suspiciously like no evidence whatsoever.

I will happily concede that I do not posses a purchase order from Saddam requisitioning uranium.
 
Grand......now all you have to do is happily appreciate that "there is some uranium in Africa and someone is buying it" does not amount to evidence of Iraq sourcing uranium from Niger.

Put it this way, in any court of law this "evidence" would be laughed out of court.
 




_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 3:36:00 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

But The conditions in some of the African nations, such as the Congo and Tanzinia, would be readily exploited by a man like Saddam. They were mining and selling uranium outside of UN controls, unless you dispute this..
Police in Tanzania say they have seized 110kg of suspected uranium and arrested five people, including a national of the Democratic Republic of Congo.


Did you really read what you wrote before you posted this?

Your real name isn't G.W.Bush? If so you have already invaded Iraq and fucked up. The world no longer requires heavy duty evidence!

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 3:59:21 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

He didn't even have the Capability. How could he have the intent?



He had the will and the capability..

In a preliminary report released in Vienna on 3 October, IAEA Director-General Hans Blix stated there was evidence of: a broad-based effort on an implosion-type nuclear weapon; success in machining nuclear-weapons components from natural uranium; evidence of sophisticated computer codes of develop nuclear weapons; parallel development of a nuclear missile delivery system; substantial nuclear-weapons-related procurement from foreign sources; and on-site, on-the-spot training of Iraqi engineers by foreign equipment manufacturers.
The team, headed by Chief Inspector David Kay, also concluded that:
* Iraq still has substantial nuclear facilities, which were "part of the clandestine programme and which have not been declared";
* "Significant documentary material and equipment" had been removed from identified nuclear programme sites, some shortly before the team's arrival; and
* There was "repeated and wilful non-compliance" by Iraq with Security Council resolutions 687 (1991) and 707 (1991), as well as violation of privileges and immunities specified for UN/IAEA inspection teams
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-11715525.html

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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 4:08:30 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide
 


The British government were unable to produce any proof to support their claims. All they were able to put forward was a forged document. British whitehall officials have since acknowledge it was forged.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4
 
from the BBC
Officially, no uranium at all should now be leaving the country. But the United Nations has reported that in the past six years more than 50 cases of smuggled uranium have been seized in Congo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/6401491.stm
 
Maybe Joe was right and he didn't find evidence in Niger. But it looks like there may be evidence that the president was right in his address as the Congo is still in Africa.



There is no mention of any link to Iraq in the above BBC article.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Also..
The Democratic Republic of Congo has emerged as the likeliest target of Iraq's attempts to secure uranium for its nuclear weapons programme, after Britain gave warning that Saddam Hussein has sought "significant quantities" of the radioactive metal somewhere in Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/29/wirq329.xml



This is simply repeating the claims of the British government who, when asked for proof to support their case, presented a forged document to parliament.

I will happily concede that I do not posses a purchase order from Saddam requisitioning uranium.
But The conditions in some of the African nations, such as the Congo and Tanzinia, would be readily exploited by a man like Saddam. They were mining and selling uranium outside of UN controls, unless you dispute this..
Police in Tanzania say they have seized 110kg of suspected uranium and arrested five people, including a national of the Democratic Republic of Congo.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2477367.stm
Now that was in 2002 and it appears that the conditions for smuggling have been present for several years.

They are selling this material to someone.
Henri Boshoff, a military analyst at the Institute for Security Studies in the South African capital Pretoria, said that unrest in the Congo made it the most likely African country to have been targeted by Iraq.
"The Congo has virtually no border or airspace security; there is virtually no control over movement," he said. "If anyone had enough money and determination I think they could get uranium, although the risks of being caught are enormous."
 
As I imagine most of the posters here do not have access to classified documents and source materials, we are at a disadvantage to really knowing what the scope and intent of nations like Iraq are up to. But it doesn't take much to see the potential for Iraq to get uranium from Africa.



The above sounds suspiciously like no evidence whatsoever.

I will happily concede that I do not posses a purchase order from Saddam requisitioning uranium.
 
Grand......now all you have to do is happily appreciate that "there is some uranium in Africa and someone is buying it" does not amount to evidence of Iraq sourcing uranium from Niger.

Put it this way, in any court of law this "evidence" would be laughed out of court.





Well I bet it would be best to wait and have a guy like Saddam actually announce that he possessed the bomb first, After all he showed so much restraint in the past with his own people. I'm sure he wouldn't use his military power in an untoward way ( look out Kuwait).
No  I'm sure thats best... not

We had enough justification the first time Saddams forces fired on a US flagged plane in enforcing the UN no fly zones.
Too bad Clinton was only interested in tomahawking his ass.



< Message edited by Sternhand4 -- 3/19/2007 4:09:40 PM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 4:53:56 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Here is a timeline that discusses the series of events that led Joe Wilson's comments and finally to the outing of his wife Valerie Plame. It is what it is. If others have more reliable sources than this to ascertain facts.. fine.

I am basically trying to cut through the bullshit regarding why he said what he did, why his wife ended up outed, his motivations behind his comments, and whether or not he and his wife being a democrats had anything to do with their decision to alter the history of the importance about his trip to Niger and his conclusions about the importance of the Iraq efforts to produce atomic weapons.

quote:



    1. February 26, 2002 – Wilson arrives in Niger . He concludes, after a few days of interviews, that “it was highly unlikely that anything was going on.” (Senate Intelligence Cmte., Iraq 42, July 2004).




    2.March 5, 2002 –Wilson reports back to two CIA officers at his home. Valerie Wilson is present but does not participate. (Senate Intelligence Cmte., Iraq 43, July 2004).



    3. January 28, 2003 – Bush’s State of the Union Address includes this 16-word sentence: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. ” (Transcript of “ State of the Union" ).




    4. February 6th, 2003 A "Big Cat" With Nothing to Lose (from Wilson's website) By Joseph Wilson Originally Published on Feb. 6, 2003 by the Los Angeles Times

There is now no incentive for Hussein to comply with the inspectors or to refrain from using weapons of mass destruction to defend himself if the United States comes after him.

And he will use them; we should be under no illusion about that.



    5. February 28th, 2003 NOW with Bill Moyers Transcript. Bill Moyers Talks with Joseph C. Wilson

MOYERS: President Bush's recent speech to the American Enterprise Institute, he said, let me quote it to you. "The danger posed by Saddam Hussein and his weapons cannot be ignored or wished away." You agree with that?

WILSON: I agree with that. Sure. I…

MOYERS: "The danger must be confronted." You agree with that? "We would hope that the Iraqi regime will meet the demands of the United Nations and disarm fully and peacefully. If it does not, we are prepared to disarm Iraq by force. Either way, this danger will be removed. The safety of the American people depends on ending this direct and growing threat." You agree with that?

WILSON: I agree with that. Sure. The President goes on to say in that speech as he did in the State of the Union Address is we will liberate Iraq from a brutal dictator. All of which is true. But the only thing Saddam Hussein hears in this speech or the State of the Union Address is, "He's coming to kill me. He doesn't care if I have weapons of mass destruction or not. His objective is to come and overthrow my regime and to kill me." And that then does not provide any incentive whatsoever to disarm.


 
   6. March 8th, 2003 CNN SATURDAY Interview With Joseph Wilson Aired March 8, 2003
WILSON: Well, the report I saw said that the Brits were involved. Maybe it was the British that passed this report on. I don’t know who else might have been involved, but I can tell you this: The report in "The Washington Post" today said — quoted a U.S. official as saying, "we just fell for it."

That’s just not good enough. Either he’s being disingenuous, or he shouldn’t be drawing a government paycheck.

SAN MIGUEL: So how do you play this, then? I mean, what, do you admit it, do you just move on? Do you try to get these things verified if you do believe, indeed, that Iraq was trying to buy this material from Niger? I mean, how do you handle this? What’s the damage control on this?

WILSON: I have no idea. I’m not in the government. I would not want to be doing damage control on this. I think you probably just fess up and try to move on and say there’s sufficient other evidence to convict Saddam of being involved in the nuclear arms trade. But Dr. ElBaradei yesterday was pretty clear. He doesn’t see that this is happening.

SAN MIGUEL: We’ll have to leave it there. Joseph Wilson, former acting ambassador to Iraq for the U.S., thank you very much for your time.



    7. March 19, 2003 – President Bush announces the start of the Iraq war in a televised address, saying it is “to disarm Iraq , to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.” (Bush, “ Addresses the Nation" ).



    8. May 2nd, 2003 Senate Democratic Policy Committee Conference (from the Vanity Fair profile):
In early May, Wilson and Plame attended a conference sponsored by the Senate Democratic Policy Committee, at which Wilson spoke about Iraq; one of the other panelists was the New York Times journalist Nicholas Kristof. Over breakfast the next morning with Kristof and his wife, Wilson told about his trip to Niger and said Kristof could write about it



    9. May 6, 2003 – A New York Times columnist
(Nicholas Kristof) writes the first account of Wilson' s trip, but not naming him: “I'm told by a person involved in the Niger caper that more than a year ago the vice president's office asked for an investigation of the uranium deal, so a former U.S. ambassador to Africa was dispatched to Niger . In February 2002, according to someone present at the meetings, that envoy reported to the C.I.A. and State Department that the information was unequivocally wrong.” (" Missing In Action: Truth, New York Times, Op-ed, May 2003).



    10. May 2003 – Joseph Wilson begins advising the Kerry campaign on foreign policy issues. ( White House expects calls… ,” USA Today, October 2003)

He advises for at least 6 months, campaigns for Kerry in at least 6 states, and even assists in speech writing. (Spouse of Outed CIA officer signs on with Kerry, Washington Times)



    11. June 12, 2003 – A Washington Post article quotes an “envoy” (Wilson ) as saying that the “dates were wrong and the names were wrong” on the Italian document determined to be forged by the IAEA. (" CIA Did Not Share Doubt…, Washington Post, June 2003). Wilson later tells the Senate Intelligence Committee that he may have “misspoken” to reporters, thinking he had seen the documents himself, rather than reading about them secondhand. (Senate Intelligence Cmte ., Iraq 44).



    12. July 6, 2003 – Wilson publishes " What I didn’t find in Africa" in The New York Times, identifying himself for the first time as the unnamed “envoy.” He writes:

Based on my experience with the administration in the months leading up to the war, I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

...

I thought the Niger matter was settled and went back to my life. (I did take part in the Iraq debate, arguing that a strict containment regime backed by the threat of force was preferable to an invasion.)

...

The question now is how that answer was or was not used by our political leadership. If my information was deemed inaccurate, I understand (though I would be very interested to know why). If, however, the information was ignored because it did not fit certain preconceptions about Iraq, then a legitimate argument can be made that we went to war under false pretenses.

...

I was convinced before the war that the threat of weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Saddam Hussein required a vigorous and sustained international response to disarm him. Iraq possessed and had used chemical weapons; it had an active biological weapons program and quite possibly a nuclear research program — all of which were in violation of United Nations resolutions. Having encountered Mr. Hussein and his thugs in the run-up to the Persian Gulf war of 1991, I was only too aware of the dangers he posed.

But were these dangers the same ones the administration told us about?



     13. July 2003 - Joseph Wilson "Restore Honesty" portion of the John Kerry website (taken from the July 26th version from www.waybackmachine.com):

But I wasn't ready to keep quiet when this President misled the nation in his State of the Union Address.

Because of that, leakers in the Bush White House illegally revealed that my wife worked in the CIA - endangering her life and that of my family. They tried to intimidate me and others who were willing to speak up and tell the truth.

...

But let me tell you, what I have done doesn't hold a candle to the courage that John Kerry showed as a young man and throughout his political career. I am supporting him for President because he has been willing to tell the truth no matter what the pressure. He is ready to restore truth and honor to the White House. And I hope that everyone else who is outraged by this Administration and who wants to change America will join me in doing all you can to make John Kerry our next President.

...

To speak out against bad policies after a career of accomplishments, as I recently did, is a civic duty.

...

George Bush's Administration has betrayed our trust - I know that personally. I am honored to endorse John Kerry and to commit myself to his campaign to wrest our democracy back from those who have so squandered the public trust.




    14.  January 2004 Vanity Fair profile - Wilson's comments about his CNN interview with  Renay San Miguel mentioned in item 6:

On the weekend of March 8, a U.S. official admitted, "We fell for it," about the Niger documents. A signature on one letter, dated October 10, 2000, was that of a foreign minister who hadn't been in office for nearly 11 years. Wilson appeared on CNN and told news anchor Renay San Miguel that he believed that if the U.S. government looked into its files it would find it had known a lot more about the Niger uranium story than it was now letting on.



There is much more, but I did not want to do all the work here. The last point I put emphasis on because I wanted to point out that the media makes a stink out of the Plame outing, not of her husband;s apparent partisanship and twisting of the truth to favor whatever version of events he thinks will best suit his agenda.

It is a bit of a misnomer to say that Wilson didn't go after the Bush Admin, when any objective person can easily see how he has operated.



FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 5:05:33 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

They are selling this material to someone.



Wouldnt it have made more sense for the United States to invade the country doing the selling?

I am trying to figure out why you perceive Niger selling uranium to everybody except Saddam as a rational for invading Iraq.

Please clarify,

Sinergy




_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 40
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