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RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 5:05:50 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

He didn't even have the Capability. How could he have the intent?



He had the will and the capability..

In a preliminary report released in Vienna on 3 October, IAEA Director-General Hans Blix stated there was evidence of: a broad-based effort on an implosion-type nuclear weapon; success in machining nuclear-weapons components from natural uranium; evidence of sophisticated computer codes of develop nuclear weapons; parallel development of a nuclear missile delivery system; substantial nuclear-weapons-related procurement from foreign sources; and on-site, on-the-spot training of Iraqi engineers by foreign equipment manufacturers.
The team, headed by Chief Inspector David Kay, also concluded that:
* Iraq still has substantial nuclear facilities, which were "part of the clandestine programme and which have not been declared";
* "Significant documentary material and equipment" had been removed from identified nuclear programme sites, some shortly before the team's arrival; and
* There was "repeated and wilful non-compliance" by Iraq with Security Council resolutions 687 (1991) and 707 (1991), as well as violation of privileges and immunities specified for UN/IAEA inspection teams
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-11715525.html



CAPABILITY means a nuclear weapon.

The United States has the CAPABILITY to use a nuclear weapon.
The Israelis have the CAPABILITY to use a nuclear weapon.

Dicking around doesn't count. Of course, as we've seen from Bush's handling of North Korea, you don't get respect from the U.S. until you HAVE the Capability.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 5:09:09 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I like the way there's a leap from "Hussain's a dangerous nut" to "We need to invade and forment a Civil War between Shi'a and Sunni"

I'm missing the connection.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 5:11:18 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.  



Might want to check your facts.  The tubes he purchased had a protective coating on them to make them suitable for making rockets with.  He would have had to grind off the protective coating in order to fit them into a centrifuge to extract weapons grade uranium 238 from the yellow cake that Niger refused to sell him.


Of course, once he machined off the protective coating to make a centrifuge to extract weapons grade uranium 238, he would not have had any aluminum tubes to make rockets with.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 5:16:12 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Overt Acts supporting the charge against 18 USC 371:

E. On September 8, 2002, on Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, RICE asserted that Saddam Hussein was acquiring aluminum tubes that were "only suited" for nuclear centrifuge use, which statement was deliberately false and fraudulent, and made with reckless indifference to the truth in that it omitted to state the following material facts: (1) the U.S. intelligence community was deeply divided about the likely use of the tubes; (2) there were at least fifteen intelligence reports written since April 2001 that cast doubt on the tubes' possible nuclear-related use; and (3) the U.S. Department of Energy nuclear weapons experts had concluded, after analyzing the tubes's specifications and the circumstances of the Iraqis' attempts to procure them, that the aluminum tubes were not well suited for nuclear centrifuge use and were more likely intended for artillery rocket production.

and
L. In a February 5, 2003, speech to the UN, POWELL falsely implied, without reasonable basis and with reckless disregard for the truth, that, among other things: (1) those who maintained that Iraq was purchasing aluminum tubes for rockets were allied with Saddam Hussein, even though POWELL well knew that both Department of Energy nuclear weapons experts and State Department intelligence analysts had concluded that the tubes were not suited for nuclear centrifuge use; and (2) Iraq had an ongoing cooperative relationship with al Qaeda, when he well knew that no intelligence agency had reached that conclusion.




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 7:11:45 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Those tubes are a bigger lie than the niger crap.  Our very own DOE said they weren't for a centrifuge but that wasn't good enough not to use that "fact" anyway. 

The people who still support Bush will support him him no matter what lies or treason are exposed.  They don't care about America, just Bush and their precious party.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 7:34:51 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		No lies or treason have been exposed. Congress is barely Democrat now and if there were any lies or treason then impeachment would be on the table, but YOU GOT NOTHIN'

And the last little part, where you accuse me of not caring about America... here's a little hint for you - kids who make straw man arguments like that one are the butt of jokes in Jr. High debate class, okay?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
The people who still support Bush will support him him no matter what lies or treason are exposed.  They don't care about America, just Bush and their precious party.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 7:55:08 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

No lies or treason have been exposed.


Republican standards at there very best!

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/19/2007 8:41:12 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

No lies or treason have been exposed.


Let's first agree on what a constitutes a "Lie".

How about this definition of "Lie" ( From Federal Law ) :

A "false" or "fraudulent" representation is one that is:

(a) made with knowledge that it is untrue;
(b) a half-truth;
(c) made without a reasonable basis or with reckless indifference as to whether it is, in fact, true or false; or
(d) literally true, but intentionally presented in a manner reasonably calculated to deceive a person of ordinary prudence and intelligence.

The knowing concealment or omission of information that a reasonable person would consider important in deciding an issue also constitutes fraud.

If that's the standard, then I submit:

D. On September 7, 2002, appearing publicly with Blair, BUSH claimed a recent IAEA report stated that Iraq was "six months away from developing a [nuclear] weapon" and "I don't know what more evidence we need," which statements were made without basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that: (1) the IAEA had not even been present in Iraq since 1998; and (2) the report the IAEA did write in 1998 had concluded there was no indication that Iraq had the physical capacity to produce weapons-usable nuclear material or that it had attempted to obtain such material.

meets the criteria.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/20/2007 3:44:46 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		AGAIN - must be Democrat standards too, or Congress would be talking impeachment.

Don't you think?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

No lies or treason have been exposed.


Republican standards at there very best!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/20/2007 7:12:51 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I've heard that Congress *IS* talking Impeachment, just not publicly, so it's not getting press.

THIS WEEK, is "Get Rid of Gonzales" week. Let's see what'll be on deck for next week. "Ger Rid of Rice"?





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/20/2007 7:20:22 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

No lies or treason have been exposed.



You dont read much, do you.

Might want to read the following before you make this assertion

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/worst_congress_ever

The fact that the Republican nitwits put in office were incompetent at doing the jobs they were elected to do
does not actually equate to there being nothing to investigate.

Sinergy

p.s.  I would like to point out that this same Congress put a serial pedophile in charge of the committee on missing and exploited children, and then did not remove him from this position after his proclivities were known about.




_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/20/2007 10:16:06 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Congressional Progressive Caucus
 
"71 Strong and Growing"

(Note: 10 new Members added in 110th congress raising Caucuse membership to
71, just 6 short of equaling 1/2 of the entire Democratic Caucus and by far the most
diverse Caucus in the 109th Congress)

The list of members names are on the left side of the pdf document.

http://pdamerica.org/index.php

http://pdamerica.org/tools/issues/Spratt-CPC-Budget-Ltr.pdf


Additional links -

http://www.impeachbush.org/site/

http://www.impeachpac.org/
 
http://www.impeach07.org/



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/20/2007 12:45:17 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		The only reason Bush and Co. are not all hanging from the yardarm is a great many American's are very very stupid.

Think about this for a second.

How many times has Bush changed the reason to go to war in Iraq?  Then look to see how many idiots are still defending things even Bush and his clowns have been forced to admit were wrong.

Look at how many people can't grasp that Al Queda was opposed to Saddam as events have born out and yet there are still idiots who cannot see that their goals were diametrically opposed.

Even worse look at how many argue a point which is then exposed as nonsensical by events and without pause they move to the next one and the process repeats itself and yet they never seem to doubt their current position.

Another varion of the above idiocy are the vast numbers who will argue a point based on some obscure tangential issue despite the fact that real world events clearly indicate the broad truth at hand.  The whole Iraqi nuclear weapons program is a perfect case, bottom line, Bush said they were within a year or two of having one and it was clear that they weren't and they ignored the massive amounts of valid evidence against that notion and instead based it on twisted and unreliable sources.  However, they will still try and support Bush's case based on some twisted and obscure tangential bit of evidence rather than looking at the fact that nothing was found in Iraq to support it.

They have the ability to ignore how many on the left predicted everything that has happened in Iraq and how none of the right got a fucking thing correct and yet they unwaivingly support the right.

So, in order to get elected, politicians have to appeal to this vast crowd of complete morons and that greatly limits their actions

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/20/2007 7:14:19 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

So, in order to get elected, politicians have to appeal to this vast crowd of complete morons and that greatly limits their actions



What did we learn from the movie The Sixth Sense.

"We see stupid people.  They are everywhere.  They dont know they are stupid."

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Fact Check and Valerie Plame - 3/20/2007 7:21:27 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The third bullet in your list says that Saddam did try to get Uranium in 99, but was rebuffed by the Nigerians, according to what Wilson was told.  Which would make the claim, “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. ” absolutly true, would it not.  It doesn't say he aquired uranium recently, just that he tried to get it.  Also it would indicate that Saddam was trying to get Uranium illegally, and was not complying with the sanctions in spirit or actuality.  But I suppose as long as he did not get any that time, everything is ok.


A key question would be whether four years earlier counts as "recently."

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 55
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